Breydon Water Catches People Out Again!

[Meantime]

9 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

Whoever is responsible for maintaining Breydon, whether it’s the BA, EA or anyone else, ought to be prioritising their replacement.  Using buoys is far from ideal.

The BA took over responsibility for Breydon from Peel Ports who I think were only to happy to see the back of it. There was then some specialists contractors employed to replace a number of posts and to give training to some of the BA staff who were then going to be getting some new toys and doing the maintenance in future.

It looks like the buoys have been placed in pairs where the missing posts were. However to the uninitiated looking at the posts and then the low buoys and then the posts again, it could look like it's marking the channel straight onto the mud. The channel bears left just where those posts are missing, so it could be easily assumed that you continue straight between the buoys.

[rightsaidfred]

I do wonder why trial by forum is still  a spectator sport, like everyone else I only know the bare details as reported, I understand that one boat broke down and was probably the one that EMS engineers attended and presumably reached by boat so not aground at the time, no idea why the other boat was aground, it has been said that one boat can't be refloated till Wednesday but again not sure which one, one boat had a 6mth old baby and animals on board, one had a large party of 11 onboard, if that was a family hire it could have comprised several generations we just don't know.

The one sure fact we do know is that all were safely evacuated by the expertise and cooperation of the various agencies including the alert from EMS staff surely that is all that is relevant.

Fred

[andyg]

45 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:

I do wonder why trial by forum is still  a spectator sport, like everyone else I only know the bare details as reported, I understand that one boat broke down and was probably the one that EMS engineers attended and presumably reached by boat so not aground at the time, no idea why the other boat was aground, it has been said that one boat can't be refloated till Wednesday but again not sure which one, one boat had a 6mth old baby and animals on board, one had a large party of 11 onboard, if that was a family hire it could have comprised several generations we just don't know.

The one sure fact we do know is that all were safely evacuated by the expertise and cooperation of the various agencies including the alert from EMS staff surely that is all that is relevant.

Fred

Absolutely spot on...

[grendel]

1 hour ago, Meantime said:

As for the rest, well one of the boats was moored at Yarmouth when we went past, therefore it is not speculation that it left after low slack water and would either have gone aground on a rising tide, or on the falling tide just after high water, since the incident was called in on Saturday afternoon. The tide times are not speculation because we used them to pass Yarmouth at just after slack low water.

it is still speculation, as they may have left at any time after you went round the corner out of sight, they may just have waited until just after the end of slack to get the flood up Breydon, or any time after that. we dont know the exact circumstances of the incident, other than their engine was broken and they ended up grounded, so anything other than that is speculation. 

[rightsaidfred]

It would appear now that both boats are stranded for a few days before a suitable tide will allow them to be re-floated so evacuation of occupants was essential.

Fred

[Meantime]

48 minutes ago, grendel said:

it is still speculation, as they may have left at any time after you went round the corner out of sight, they may just have waited until just after the end of slack to get the flood up Breydon, or any time after that.

Not really, because as I said in my first post, I went through at 11:05am a fraction after low slack water, so the tide had already turned. They couldn't have caught the end of slack water. However had they have done I'm sure an easier rescue could have been made. Not wishing to speculate further I can add the following facts. One of the boats was at the yacht station at 11:05 and looking back from the far side of Breydon, nothing else had followed us across Breydon. We also passed The Spirit of Breydon at The Berney Arms as it turned to go across Breydon. So yes the next bit is speculation, but I wouldn't have thought The Spirit of Breydon would leave a cruiser stuck on the mud IF the cruiser had left an hour or so after we passed the yacht station.

[PaulN]

1½ weeks ago we crossed Breydon Water leaving the Yarmouth Yellow Post to starboard at Slack Water, late afternoon. About 200m ahead of us was a Broom Captain (I wont say which one) and this boat was swerving from side to side within the channel and to our surprise, children were running around the deck via the bow. About halfway across the boat suddenly turned to starboard and went at right angles between two green posts and drove hard up the mud and got stuck. This was a jaw dropping moment, as the tide line was clearly visible.

It was a rising tide but when we came past them, there was no mud weight down and so the onshore wind would just drive them further up the mud as the tide came in. We just couldn't fathom what they were playing at.  

[rightsaidfred]

1 hour ago, Meantime said:

Not really, because as I said in my first post, I went through at 11:05am a fraction after low slack water, so the tide had already turned. They couldn't have caught the end of slack water. However had they have done I'm sure an easier rescue could have been made. Not wishing to speculate further I can add the following facts. One of the boats was at the yacht station at 11:05 and looking back from the far side of Breydon, nothing else had followed us across Breydon. We also passed The Spirit of Breydon at The Berney Arms as it turned to go across Breydon. So yes the next bit is speculation, but I wouldn't have thought The Spirit of Breydon would leave a cruiser stuck on the mud IF the cruiser had left an hour or so after we passed the yacht station.

Sadly we are not all perfect especially first timers, while I have never had a problem crossing Breydon I hesitate to criticise others without knowing the full facts.

Fred

[Broads01]

Just on the point of the missing posts at the Great Yarmouth end, my perception is the replacement green cones actually improve the clarity of the channel because they're relatively close together.

Separate point - I would imagine if your engine failed mid-channel you could end up absolutely anywhere. That would be very scary in my view.

[Roy]

Maybe the BA should either have all posts or all buoys as a marker then there’s no confusion.

must say I’ve been over Breydon lots of times it’s not my favourite part of the broads and to let anybody out on deck over Breydon especially children is a big  no no. 

Holiday makers need to be informed more about the tides and how fast they run around Breydon and Yarmouth. 

In a ideal world where money was not a issue the two bridges at Yarmouth should be rebuilt. 

[grendel]

maybe that is part of the problem, all the advice says stay between the marker posts, I guess when some are replaced with buoys, it could cause confusion.

[Meantime]

2 hours ago, rightsaidfred said:

Sadly we are not all perfect especially first timers, while I have never had a problem crossing Breydon I hesitate to criticise others without knowing the full facts.

You know the full facts that they were first timers then? 

[Bytheriver]

3 hours ago, grendel said:

maybe that is part of the problem, all the advice says stay between the marker posts, I guess when some are replaced with buoys, it could cause confusion.

BA replaced the posts that were missing about a year ago so looks like some more have disappeared & been replaced with temporary buoys  

[Matt]

I am one of the 1 in 12 men who are red/green colourblind. Perhaps BA could move away from those colours!

[floydraser]

I've had a rare non-cynical thought: A 42 footer listing over in the mud waiting for the tide to re-float it. Would it still do so with the weight of 10 people effectively on one side?

[rightsaidfred]

4 hours ago, Meantime said:

You know the full facts that they were first timers then? 

I did not say they were or were not,  nor have I tried to second guess what happened now or on all the other occasions it's happened including to various private owners.

Fred

[Smoggy]

10 hours ago, Matt said:

I am one of the 1 in 12 men who are red/green colourblind. Perhaps BA could move away from those colours!

It's the standard IALA buoyage system so anything else would be completely wrong, be grateful they don't use withies (normal folk call them sticks), I seem to recall the rule on the upper Alde  is if it has a branch left on it's a port otherwise it's a starboard marker (which may have a plastic milk bottle over it).

[Meantime]

9 hours ago, floydraser said:

I've had a rare non-cynical thought: A 42 footer listing over in the mud waiting for the tide to re-float it. Would it still do so with the weight of 10 people effectively on one side?

Low water was at 22:23 on Saturday. The incident was called in on Saturday afternoon and they were airlifted off at 4:50am Sunday morning as the tide was falling again, so they had already been through a high tide cycle. If it was thought that the boat wouldn't refloat on a high tide I would have thought they would have been lifted off the evening before.

[Matt]

42 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

It's the standard IALA buoyage system so anything else would be completely wrong, be grateful they don't use withies (normal folk call them sticks), I seem to recall the rule on the upper Alde  is if it has a branch left on it's a port otherwise it's a starboard marker (which may have a plastic milk bottle over it).

I do get that- I did my day skipper a couple of years back and it just adds to the complexity 😃

But on Breydon, sometimes there are posts, some are painted better than others, some have a white cap on, some don’t, sometimes there are no posts, sometimes there are buoys. It could just be made better.

[FlyingFortress]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

I do get that- I did my day skipper a couple of years back and it just adds to the complexity 😃

But on Breydon, sometimes there are posts, some are painted better than others, some have a white cap on, some don’t, sometimes there are no posts, sometimes there are buoys. It could just be made better.

Have long thought that it would be easy to cut the tops off the red posts to give them a square top while leaving the conical tops on the green. This kind of reflects the IALA shape of Lateral buoyage.

I know only those with some kind of sea knowledge or experience would understand this but it is also helpful at times of low light or sun dazzle for them 

[Vaughan]

2 hours ago, FlyingFortress said:

I know only those with some kind of sea knowledge or experience would understand this

Given that reports of this incident all suggest it was the result of a boat being blown off the channel after an engine failure, this conversation is all a bit academic, even for such an amateur mariner as myself.

I was told the conical metal tops on the newer posts are there to keep the cormorants off.

[FlyingFortress]

5 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

Given that reports of this incident all suggest it was the result of a boat being blown off the channel after an engine failure, this conversation is all a bit academic, even for such an amateur mariner as myself.

I was told the conical metal tops on the newer posts are there to keep the cormorants off.

That's fair enough.

Maybe that's why they have never done it then.

[andyg]

Hemsby lifeboat have just posted on fb about this incident. 16 ppl 2 dogs and a pet rabbit were rescued. Now I know il take some flak for this, but what on earth are ppl taking their pet rabbit onto a boat for...jeez what next pet mice..

[YnysMon]

1 minute ago, andyg said:

Hemsby lifeboat have just posted on fb about this incident. 16 ppl 2 dogs and a pet rabbit were rescued. Now I know il take some flak for this, but what on earth are ppl taking their pet rabbit onto a boat for...jeez what next pet mice..

Well, maybe they didn't have anyone who could look after their rabbit whilst they are away. I've heard of kennels and catteries, but not 'rabbiteries'. 

 

[grendel]

for most people pets are an integral part of the family