Sutton Staithe Moorings.

[Vaughan]

5 hours ago, FlyingFortress said:

I am going to ask a few questions about Liveaboards on the Broads.

Ask away. I am one of the oldest surviving ones (from the age of 6 months and for 41 years) so I might be able to answer some of them.

[Vaughan]

By the way, while we are at it, could we perhaps try to avoid the appellation "live aboard" which I have always found rather disparaging.

One of our best known and loved moderators, JillR, was chair of the Residential Boat Owner's National Association.

[Vaughan]

This sets me thinking of some of the many people I knew - and still know - who lived on boats back in the "old days". Some names you may have heard of :

Brian and Jill Thwaites, founders of Barnes Brinkcaft, who spent the first years of their marriage on the pleasure wherry Goldfinch, moored on Thorpe Island close to the Town House.

Mr & Mrs Tony Sanderson, parents of Colin and Steve, who lived for several years post war on Reedham Quay in a converted RAF rescue launch, before buying a house on the front, close to the boatyard.

Jim and Peggy Cole, who opened the riverside stores in Brundall, parents of Jim Cole, founder of the NYA. They lived on a pleasure wherry (Bramble if I remember right) before building a modern bungalow on their yard at Tidecraft.

Tony Webster, who lived for many years on the wherry Dragon, on a pub mooring at Thorpe Gardens.  He was one of the Commissioners' river inspectors!

Cyril Fiske, foreman painter at Hearts Cruisers, who lived for years on a permanent mooring with the parish council on Thorpe Green, on the ex Gorleston Lifeboat, Friend of All Nations.

Harley and Maggie Miller, well known Broads artists, who lived on the lovely old houseboat Iolanthe, on the south bank just upstream of the Swan corner at Horning.  As well as Pete Bearman, known as Pete the painter, who lived on his boat on the Thurne, close to Womack dyke.

Talking of artists, how about Batchelder and Rackham, whose watercolours from the 20's are greatly valued these days.  They both lived on small sailing yachts and "continuous cruised" together while doing their paintings.  In fact you will often see a painting by Batchelder which features Rackham's yacht moored up, and vice versa.

There were literally hundreds of boats like these around the Broads in the 50s, when housing was still in short supply after the war. Living afloat was a sensible thing to do.

 

 

 

This is a blow-up of my avatar, which is the first river toll disc on the old gun-boat Morning Flight, after she had been re-fitted. They had tolls just for houseboats in those days and you can see what it cost, to live on a 72ft houseboat!

[BroadAmbition]

Being a Tyke, we tend to say it like it is. Folk who live afloat on their craft have long been termed liveaboards. Not disparaging at all. Just telling it like it is

Griff

[Smoggy]

I've never thought of "liveaboard" being in anyway disparaging and neither have narrowboat dwelling friends of mine, however they wasn't so keen on the term "coffin dwellers" as they are so often known on grp canal cruisers, well it's the shape of the boat innit .

I've never had an issue with being termed as "tupperware" or "stinkie" in my grp mobo and usually use the terms myself, people are so thin skinned these days, whatever happened to the british thing of taking the pee out of ourselves?

[MargeandParge]

We know very decent people that call themselves liveaboards and also decent people that aspire to be called liveaboards. So it would be patronising to them to have a fancy label that pleased others.

Kindest Regards Marge and Parge 

PS when I am on board Marge very often calls me a Liver Board just me and no one else and I see the funny side of it and take the jibe as it was intended. 

[MauriceMynah]

I have no problem with most terms used, and refer to myself as a "liveaboard". I am aware that some prefer the term "continuous cruisers".

Might I suggest that for the purposes of this thread, we are referred to as "CCs". Easier and quicker to type. 

Now FF, what were your questions?

[marshman]

I wish Rackhams paintings were highly valued!!!

Many suffer from the fact he used poor quality paint and lots have have faded but Rackhams fetch no more than a couple of hundred quid - if you are lucky! Indeed not sure there are any shops left that sell that kind of picture - pictures are unloved by the modern generation who like clear, uncluttered walls - except for a large TV!!

I have several not more than a few feet from where I sit, but what he could do exceedingly well was paint a wherry sail exceptionally well - he got the curve of the sail just right, one of the few artists who got it spot on!! No guessing, no artistic licence but EXACTLY right!!!

 

[marshman]

Sorry - more thread drift!!!!!! No connection to Sutton Staithe whatsoever - not sure he ever painted it either!! Too far for him to pedal!!

[grendel]

46 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

Might I suggest that for the purposes of this thread, we are referred to as "CCs". Easier and quicker to type. 

I will point out that whilst this is a good alternative, its not technically correct as some residential boaters will have home moorings and therefore would not technically be continuous cruising.

[floydraser]

No, if you live aboard, it's liveaboard. Let's please not start chasing our tails around a series of made up terms like other areas of the media. Let's pretend to be grown up instead.

If the term is accepted as being in some way disparaging, why should that be? It would be an admission that they are looked down upon. And if they are looked down upon, why is that?

The BA has a difficult job in trying to attract people to the Broads and as part of that, has to make sure there's little to put them off. They have to try and judge other people's predjudices. Not a job I would want either; must lead to some uncomfortable discussions behind closed doors.

[Vaughan]

Well, well!

Perhaps it's because I have so often heard it used in such a thoroughly derogatory context.  And that means, on this forum.

But never mind. What's in a name? That which we call a rose, by any other name, would smell as sweet.

 

[Smoggy]

So back on with the questions for "persons of un-disclosed type of live on a boatyness".

[Cheesey69]

As in life, you get a mix. 
seen it in the Medway. Like it or not, some liveaboards will spread out and create eyesores. 
Maidstone council had to remove several from the town centre as generators, bikes, wood and rubbish spread. 
It’s a big brush that paints us all but that’s the way of it but I can promise you that if BA release the pressure off then great stretches of the Broads will be unusable. 

[rightsaidfred]

Why can we not accept that all boaters are part of one community?

In reality you have boat owners and hirers, owners live on their boats for what ever period of time they choose and go where they choose, hirers live on their boat for the period of their hire and go where they choose, both groups do it on the Broads because that's where they enjoy being, amongst both groups you have a majority who do it with consideration for others and the environment and the rules that apply, amongst both groups you have those that don't, that applys in all walks of life.

Fred

 

[Bluebell]

Sounds good to me Fred…😎

[Vaughan]

21 hours ago, MauriceMynah said:

Now FF, what were your questions?

As we haven't heard back, I hope that maybe the comments made on this page will have answered most of them.

For me, the issue of a very small number of boats "hogging" the leccy posts is just a very minor thorn in the side. The real issue is that, for the various reasons above, the northern Broads are seriously overcrowded and there are nowhere near enough public moorings.  Below the bridge in Wroxham - "The queen of the Broads" - there are none at all!  One of these days the BA are going to have to see that something has to be done, to stop the enjoyment of cruising gradually losing its attraction.

It is a very expensive hobby these days, both hire and private.

[Bytheriver]

Just a couple of points from earlier comments 

Some pubs have realised that at some stage they will have to pay for the re-building of their quay and maybe even pay higher insurance cost

Electric posts are not cheap to install - You can see how much they cost recently at Acle Bridge & others. A real rise in Tolls would be needed - Luckily many of existing locations were paid for by the pre-privatisation Electricity Boards to encourage greater us of electricity to power boats

Finally there are some questions in the consultation documents for the Broads Local Plan which are relevant - Closing date  now less than a week away but BA welcome all comments  https://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/about-us/how-we-work/transparency/consultations

[MauriceMynah]

I agree with Fred. The issue is not "what sort of boater" but "why is it happening"

We must all tread with caution when discussing liveaboards/continuous cruisers. We all have a part to play  in the broadland community.  I will however make MY last point on that subject. Would everyone here agree with me that ALL parties, whoever they are, leave Sutton Green, clean tidy and as they found it. Not the behaviour that some might imply.

Now, back to the issue. 

When I arrive at a popular spot, if it's full, its my hard luck. Yes if it's the same old same old boats it can be frustrating, but only because the same boats happen to be where I want to be, and if I had succeeded,  then I would become one of those "same olds".

I will admit that I disagree with Vaughan about how crowded the Broads are. I feel that the number of boats active at any one time is much lower than that of the 60s and 70s.

CambridgeCabby pointed out something that should have been blindingly obvious to me but sadly it was not.

The vast majority of private boat owners, when not on holiday, are reduced to weekend usage alone. We who live on our boats do not have that restriction, so perhaps we should do our battery charging and watering up on Tuesdays,  Wednesdays and Thursdays, 

I suggested this to two of my friends (boat livers) who were generally in agreement. 

We will spread the request and see if anything improves. 

[FlyingFortress]

OK so I will reply again.

I have been informed by site Admin that some subjects can have an impact on liability with regards to The Online Harm act and I have been politely requested to tread carefully. Hope this explains why I have not replied.

My intention was to collate some replies in confidence and only then post a summary. I did not think through the logistics of this Whizz Bang Plan and I found that the Forum Software would not support my plan. 

I have done something similar on other platforms both Professionally and outside of work.

My intention was to summarize the opinions of those of us who do venture out at this time of year and also highlight how things are perceived if not actually changed since The Pandemic relaxation of rules.

That is my last on this subject.

Thanks.

[Vaughan]

On 03/12/2022 at 15:24, FlyingFortress said:

I have been informed by site Admin that some subjects can have an impact on liability with regards to The Online Harm act and I have been politely requested to tread carefully. Hope this explains why I have not replied.

My intention was to collate some replies in confidence and only then post a summary. I did not think through the logistics of this Whizz Bang Plan and I found that the Forum Software would not support my plan. 

I have done something similar on other platforms both Professionally and outside of work.

My intention was to summarize the opinions of those of us who do venture out at this time of year and also highlight how things are perceived if not actually changed since The Pandemic relaxation of rules.

 

So, that seems to have killed this conversation stone dead.

Excuse me if I totally fail to see what the issue of overstaying 24 hour public moorings at Sutton Staithe  - in the "off" season - has any possible connection with the Online Harms Act. 

I also fail to see how the long standing problem of lack of moorings on the north rivers has anything to do with Pandemic rules or their "relaxation".

Personally, if I have an opinion to offer on this forum, then I do so, without any need to indulge in lobbying, behind the scenes.

I believe it is known as running it up the flagpole, to see if anyone salutes it.

 

 

[BroadAmbition]

The vast majority of private boat owners, when not on holiday, are reduced to weekend usage alone. We who live on our boats do not have that restriction, so perhaps we should do our battery charging and watering up on Tuesdays,  Wednesdays and Thursdays

That's a fine idea and may well help those that visit at weekends only, very good of you for suggesting it.

If I'm out during the winter weekends, a Friday is often spent in the wetshed due to the time I arrive being later.   I have often toyed with a quick 20 min cruise round to Sutton Staithe but the regular 'Overstayers' on the berths there tend to put me off as it is a night nav often resulting in an about turn in the dark in a restricted area, plus I need terra firma for Purdey dog so mudweighting is out.  I prefer a wild mooring for the Saturday night (Usually 'Griffs Corner' on t Ant) but if I have crew with me then I tend to head for a Pub mooring for their benefit

Griff

[ExSurveyor]

1 hour ago, Vaughan said:

So, that seems to have killed this conversation stone dead.

Excuse me if I totally fail to see what the issue of overstaying 24 hour public moorings at Sutton Staithe  - in the "off" season - has any possible connection with the Online Harms Act. 

I also fail to see how the long standing problem of lack of moorings on the north rivers has anything to do with Pandemic rules or their "relaxation".

Personally, if I have an opinion to offer on this forum, then I do so, without any need to indulge in lobbying, behind the scenes.

I believe it is known as running it up the flagpole, to see if anyone salutes it.

 

 

A slight misinterpretation of what was said to a member.

For clarity,

No mention of the Onlines Harms Bill was made in connection with this topic.

 As a forum we don't have a facility for polling and probably wouldn't want one.

No restrictions on discussing this topic has been made other than remaining within the ToS.

Lobbying behind the scenes didn't take place, advice was given.

 

 

 

[Vaughan]

34 minutes ago, ExSurveyor said:

For clarity,

No mention of the Onlines Harms Bill was made in connection with this topic.

 

On 03/12/2022 at 15:24, FlyingFortress said:

I have been informed by site Admin that some subjects can have an impact on liability with regards to The Online Harm act and I have been politely requested to tread carefully. Hope this explains why I have not replied.

 

[ExSurveyor]

As I said earlier,

"A slight misinterpretation of what was said to a member."

I am not about to get into a discussion about what advice has been given to any member.

I have stated above,

No mention of the Onlines Harms Bill was made in connection with this topic.

 As a forum we don't have a facility for polling and probably wouldn't want one.

No restrictions on discussing this topic has been made other than remaining within the ToS.

Lobbying behind the scenes didn't take place, advice was given.

Please feel free to discuss the original topic.