Heating Recommendations

[grendel]

so, my 20 + year old gas boiler finally quit on Thursday, its trying to start as I can hear the spark, but it then doesnt light. as an emergency stopgap I have turned on the immersion heater to fill the gap, but am aware that is probably not going to be viable long term (££££££££)

I know that anyone I get in to try and fix it will give me the parts not available, best to replace it story, so I am trying to research the options available.

bearing in mind gas boilers are being phased out, and the boiler is the only gas appliance I still have, I am wondering whether its time to change over to some alternative.

the main issue we have here is the electricity supply, it was designed for the 1960's, when pretty much the only load was lighting.

the cutout is only a 64A cutout, so this rules out a lot of the modern electric boilers, also as I work in the industry I have access to the cable records, so I know I am one of 16 houses fed off what would now only ever be used as a single small shop service, (a 35mm2 3phase cable)so I know that anything much bigger than 3kW wont be suitable

I do have an electric cooker too which also restricts the available spare power.

So this has got me looking at the options -

do I stick with gas and just get a cheap replacement boiler?

do I try and work with an electric boiler around the power limitations I have?

do I look into alternative heating methods - eg air source heat pump? (space considerations here as I only have a small wall space where the existing gas boiler sits)

what I am looking for is anyone with any of the above who has tried any of the above and can say whether for example a air source heat pump works to heat a house and provide hot water.

I am also looking in the interim to turn off the heating and maybe replace that with a couple of small oil filled radiators which I can run on timers to take advantage of economy 7 electricity so the immersion only needs to keep hot water in the tank rather than run the heating system too (which will mean its not bleeding all its heat out through the radiators).

so any suggestions?

[BroadAmbition]

If your shower is fed off the boiler, I suggest get yersen a proper gas boiler with spare capacity.  Back flush the whole central heating system, fit a magnetec filter then enjoy the speed your house gets warm and having a proper hollywood shower everytime.  With a modern boiler you will also be saving the amount of gas consumed too.    There are still plenty of choices out there for gas boilers, they aren't going anywhere anytime soon.  New builds are still having gas boilers installed

Griff

[Mouldy]

We replaced our gas boiler with a new gas boiler when we moved into our bungalow two years ago, changing from a conventional to a combi.

I believe that air source heat pumps are expensive to buy and necessitate upgrading internal radiators to larger ones.  The carpenter that fitted our new doors told me that the boss of the company he works for had fitted a ground source heat pump based system to his new build property and it was costing £600 per month to run.  This was about a year ago, before the rise in energy prices and ground source is more efficient, in our climate, than air source.

As with the drive to force us all to switch to electric cars, I do wonder if the same effort to force the discontinuation of gas boilers will be as I’ll conceived.

[grendel]

shower is currently a 10kW electric power shower, with one of the 5kW elements isolated to stop it potentially blowing the incoming fuses, it gets warm enough. I suppose if I go for gas again they may be able to reuse most of the original pipework that was installed 20 years back.

[grendel]

new builds will stop having gas boilers fitted in 2025, though I do read that replacement boilers may need to be compliant with hydrogen (if not that may be another replacement expense further down the line.

[Ray]

We have an air source heat pump. The main drawback that I've read about is that you really need a modern well insulated property and this is bourne out by our experience. Our house is 7 years old, the heat source pump was part of the design and it works very well... but the downstairs underfloor heating and upstairs radiator system do not get "hot" in comparison to the gas boiler system we had before we moved. Any significant heat loss through lack of insulation would be very noticable and expensive.

We do have an seemingly endless supply of hot water though, lovely long showers etc. not a problem.

Our group of houses is of 8 four bedroom detached houses, last week the first of our neighbours had to replace their heat source pump at circa £6k.

[RS2021]

32 minutes ago, grendel said:

the main issue we have here is the electricity supply, it was designed for the 1960's, when pretty much the only load was lighting.

the cutout is only a 64A cutout, so this rules out a lot of the modern electric boilers, also as I work in the industry I have access to the cable records, so I know I am one of 16 houses fed off what would now only ever be used as a single small shop service, (a 35mm2 3phase cable)so I know that anything much bigger than 3kW wont be suitable

Check out your companies connection policy. In the company I worked for it was policy decades ago to upgrade any domestic connection to 100A FOC. Your company will also have been claiming millions from the regulator as part of its price control to 'upgrade' old inadequate systems. About time they spent a bit of it on you and your neighbours don't you think?

[grendel]

Lol, that wont happen, as it will mean upgrading the whole network all the way back to the substation, including upgrading the substation. not that it doesnt need doing,  as basically the whole network for about a mile around is all similarly under specced now, I know this as I used to work at the DNO that supplies this area, there just isnt available capacity locally to upgrade anything easily.

[BroadAmbition]

5kw Shower? - Really? - That's pants, especially in the winter when the incoming water temp is down.  Ye gods man, ditch the elec shower, get a thermostatic one, proper strong modern efficient gas boiler.  Your current pipework and radiators will be fine as long as you back flush the system properly, get the rads outside and flush through upside down with a hose pipe etc.  You'll be amazed after its all done and wished you had done it sooner

Griff

[ExSurveyor]

I use a boiler engineer for all maintenance. He is of an age that he refuses to do installations. His view is that if spares are available it is ripping off the customer to replace the boiler.

During Covid he was out of action for a month and I had to call a heating firm in for a breakdown on a rental property. New boiler recommended as spares not available, this was a 10 year old boiler.

I would get a individual  boiler engineer in rather than a local heating firm and avoid any firm with the name 'Swale' in it. 

[OldBerkshireBoy]

Hydrogen is in the latter testing stage and is being trailled on a few new housing estates but it only takes a couple of parts within these boilesr to convert to NG.

Follow ExSurveyors advice re finding somebody, preferably from personal recommendations and not a trusted website who may be able to repair it.

If you do have a new boiler then depending on what condition the radiators are in upgrading to type 22 from type 21 with TRV`s can also make a big difference and save heating costs in the long term and nobody can advise on the pipework from their armchair Im afraid so you need somebody on site that you feel you can trust to advise you.

[Wonderwall]

In short, get a replacement gas boiler. Gas supplies to houses are going nowhere mate , trust me.

Air source heat pumps rely on your house being pretty much sealed and insulated to the max. You would also need all radiators to be at least double in size, with a 6kw immersion heater as back up.

As for your electric supply , a 60 amp fuse , will easy see a current of 80/100 amps over a small period of time . Your shower is only pulling its max power for a fraction of the day, then it is dormant. Likewise , a cooker is almost never asked to work at full capacity, and even if it is its only for a short time. Even the electrical regulations almost allow you to dismiss it , under " diversity"

The biggest stress a domestic installation ever came under , was I if it had storage heating , and come 8pm , 8x 3kw storage heaters all started to ask to be fed.Even then, 60 amp fuse were not blowing .

Yes, your other option is using direct electric heating , in demand when you want it . But houses these days are expected to have central heating as bare minimum . Treat yourself to a new boiler , service existing installation , Chuck insulation in where ever you can reach and enjoy the most basic of luxuries of having a warm home . 

It's the least you deserve.

[Mouldy]

Get a combi boiler and do away with the electric shower.  Mains water pressure showering - just as good as a power shower!

[marshman]

And get a decent gas boiler - don't waste your money on the cheaper brands!!  Waste of money

[MrBlueSky]

Last year I had the old gas boiler and hot water tank taken out and replaced with a combi boiler.Now have virtually instant hot water ,greatly improved shower and using alot less gas .

[Bikertov]

For an older property, I would say forget heat pumps and solar heating - the payback time is far too long, if ever, and the effectiveness is poor if you are not almost hermetically sealed.

By all means, get someone in to quote for a repair of the existing boiler, in case it is straight forward problem.

But be prepared to replace it.

I've recently replaced 2 boilers - one in a house and one in a flat. My independent heating engineer did the work, and the cost was £3500 and £2700 respectively, which I thought was reasonable ("London" prices).  The boilers themselves are about £1500 to buy.

The house boiler was nearly 35 years old, and spares were hard to find.

For the flat, it was a c15-20 year old boiler, and the cost of the spares for a repair was about £750, before labour, and no guarantee what would go wrong next.

The new one (a Vaillant) came with a 10 year manufacturer warranty, and included a magnetic filter.

Modern boilers are more efficient than 20+ year old ones, so you should see a bit of a saving. Albeit they don't last as long - I have had to change a boiler after less than 10 years from new.

Do try and upgrade your controller, timer, room thermostat and TRV's, as they will also help to better regulate the temperature and hence keep costs down.

[WherryNice]

Get a combi, I'm told that the air source heat pump stuff isnt really up to snuff, it gets less efficient the colder the weather gets and newer boilers are coming "ready for hydrogen blend" already so I guess that's where we are headed.

I'm currently having boiler issues and luckily have mate of a mate who is of the repair rather than just replace ilk, although I'm happy enough if it does need replacing as it's been on the blink for years.

Also, there really is no substitute for a mains fed shower heated by gas, I love mine!

[grendel]

currently to keep the house warm, all i use is the 2 smallest radiators in the house, the one in the bathroom and the one in the downstairs toilet, this is enough to keep it above 20 degrees in the whole house, and generally they are set on setting2 or 3, so it doesnt take a lot.

to be fair I had been considering a combi boiler which will do away with the tank in the airing cupboard and then I wont need the cold tank that was installed in the loft.

[Wonderwall]

I forgot to add , your boiler is probably very much repairable. Sounds like a faulty fan to me , or blocked air vent. Assuming you are getting has to the intake, it sounds like it's starved of oxygen . 

[Ray]

As an aside concerning air source heat pumps and cold weather (although it's not looking like the best solution here) they become less energy efficient as the temperature drops but still do an effective job, for example Norway has a very large uptake of the technology. We have survived 6 years on the North Sea coast without ever feeling cold or suffering a shortage of hot water 👍

[OldBerkshireBoy]

24 minutes ago, grendel said:

to be fair I had been considering a combi boiler which will do away with the tank in the airing cupboard and then I wont need the cold tank that was installed in the loft.

Will need a good pressure and internal flow of water for a comb, something a lot of properties dont have.

[grendel]

1 minute ago, OldBerkshireBoy said:

Will need a good pressure and internal flow of water for a comb, something a lot of properties dont have.

i do have pretty good pressure - its enough to force the hot water back to the tank in a mixer tap if I turn it up too high.

[annv]

I have a hot water cylinder in the airing cupboard along with a combi boiler, this then allows me to have free hot water from my solar panels, i dont need a water tank in the loft as its all mains water pressure works very well. As to gas being turned of to existing property's is pie in the sky, electric central heating has a long way to go. John

[BrundallNavy]

We replaced a 32 year old boiler two weeks ago as part of the kitchen refit, it still worked but spares are no longer available and was very inefficient.  The new Valliant  boiler is much quieter and the house gets warmer sooner. We had a 35 btu before now have a 17btu one so it’s cheaper to use. Total cost £2200 including the electrician to wire a new feed. 

[Mouldy]

1 hour ago, BrundallNavy said:

We replaced a 32 year old boiler two weeks ago as part of the kitchen refit, it still worked but spares are no longer available and was very inefficient.  The new Valliant  boiler is much quieter and the house gets warmer sooner. We had a 35 btu before now have a 17btu one so it’s cheaper to use. Total cost £2200 including the electrician to wire a new feed. 

Vaillant, same make as ours.  Model number is an ecotec plus 832.  Really pleased with it.