Broads Tourism

[JennyMorgan]

A rather small group from Broads Tourism met up at the Waveney River Centre recently, read all about it:

 

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/broads_tourism_community_celebrates_successes_of_10_years_working_together_1_3845354

[stumpy]

Don't like the look of the last paragraph - well spotted, JM!

[MauriceMynah]

Who is Pete Waters?

Is he in any position of authority?

Does he know (or even need to know) what he is talking about?

Is "Visit Norfolk brand manager" a real job title? and if so...

Who employs him?

In January, WHO is going to decide WHAT?

Do I need to lose any sleep over this?

 

Nah, the whole article is just another bit of poor quality journalism designed to fill space while actually saying nothing.

[Guest]

......Nah, the whole article is just another bit of poor quality journalism designed to fill space while actually saying nothing.

 

That seems the most likely deduction MM.

 

It's hard to believe that the perpetual NP plot culminates in any significant  "decision" in two months time without anyone on the Broads Fora noticing it !!

 

Just cr**py journalism, as you say....

[Mowjo]

All I see is a group of mainly business people who most of us have never heard of trying to line their own pockets, I think forums like this and many of the people we have on them do more to promote the Broads as a tourist spot,,,

 

Frank,,,

[marshman]

Agreed its all silly journalism but if DEFRA do change their view and allow it to be called a NP even if it isnt, then I have few issues with that, simply because i know what the actual situation is  But I do think it wrong to suggest that these individuals know nothing and that people like yourself know better!!

 

A number of these individuals run substantial businesses in Broadland so yes they do have an interest and yes most have made considerable investment and are interested in promoting the Broads area as a tourist destination. Why should they not want that to happen? If the very least that they do is to promote their own business and arrange for leaflets to go in holiday establishments throughout Norfolk then every bit to keep tourism alive in this area must help. It seems to me that if all that you get is people who do little to help knocking them, then if they wish to do it off their own backs, then thats great and fine by me.

 

This area, and its economy depends very heavily on tourism and such loose associations can only provide benefit. - without constant promotion the area as a whole would be worse off and these businesses would be affected and probably worse off.

 

 

[Guest]

A valid comment Marshman.

 

Broads Forums seem to focus on either "promoting" local businesses and tourism, or accusing them of being only profit oriented, (what "business" can't  be ? )

 

...and the good old "Broads National Park" bogey man title is always going to get the keyboards clicking and grind out the same old warnings, again, and again, and....

[JennyMorgan]

I thought that the NP Bogey Man had gone asleep, let sleeping dogs lie I say!

[Guest]

I thought that the NP Bogey Man had gone asleep, let sleeping dogs lie I say!

 

...someone had better warn Peter that his NBN login must have been hacked,

 

[LondonRascal]

Oh goodness me...

 

"... a branding exercise had re-invented the Norfolk and Suffolk waterways as Britain’s Magical Waterland and a tourism economy worth £460m in 2004 had increased to nearly £570m today; jobs generated by Broads tourism had increased by more than 1,000 to 9,500."

 

So calling the Norfolk Broads 'Britain's Magical Waterland' re-invented the waterways of Norfolk and Suffolk did it, and the growth of £110m in 14 years is probably nothing to do with the re-brand (which took place in 2010 by 'brand strategy guru' Simon Middleton at a cost of more than £20,000) but more that our economy has just got better in the last 14 years generally.

 

Money for the 'Magical Waterland' brand came  from the European Regional Development Fund  - not the Broads Authority and not local businesses, however they were all pushed to read from the same Hymn sheet which is why from 2010 we began seeing it plastered up from websites to brochures.  

 

It sounds very much as if the 're-brand' did not really work out that well after all.  The thing everyone wants (if they are  working in tourism) is to be able to bolding label the area as a National Park - even if it is technically not one.  At least then they can shout about it and not just try and edge it into articles and advertising accidentally as is the case today.

 

The problem is who is going to fund this new 're-brand' - I have seen no reference to any money coming  from Europe this time, but have the distinct impression the Broads Authority are the people wanting, no itching to use the line 'The Broads National Park' more than anyone else.

 

When the last branding exercise was done, a new logo was created by a Norfolk design firm, which also  included in a 'toolkit'of images and slogans, to be made available to boat hire firms, hotels and shops, in order to 'enable all Broads businesses to unite in one clear message' - what spin!

 

Meanwhile, businesses were also  encouraged to take part in the Broad Authority’s existing Green Tourism Business Scheme - yep that little known scheme you sometimes see a small logo for in a hire firms website is actually a Broads Authority original idea.

 

Of course during this  residents were not consulted over the re-branding, but members of the Broads Tourism Forum were given the opportunity to offer feedback (no surprise there).

 

To my mind you can call the Broads what you like, but until something is done about connecting Norfolk with the rest of Britain not much is going to really happen - and when do you every hear about the Broads - heck Norwich, north Norfolk etc being promoted away from urm..Norfolk?  I have not down here in London  - unless you go to Liverpool Street, then your see posters about how you can get cheap fares to Norwich in advance.   Let's face it,  rail links are sporadic, there are no motorways, and the county has been waiting for half a century to have the A11 widened further!

 

Poor old Norfolk, much like Cornwall is a beautiful place but so fragile when it comes to transport links to get there - one crack and the whole lot gets messed up.

 

The Broads does not need 'a brand' it simply needs to be promoted as a destination generally, away from just boating but its history, the coast, Norwich as a great varied city, sure the boating holidays and good place for anglers to come too but also the local authority and Broads Authority too need to try and see how they might be able to promote new businesses in the area to attract varied customers maybe with incentives with reduced business rates or working with Banks to help with loans over longer periods at reduced rates to get things started.  Look at Great Yarmouth along the river how much could be done there with the right money and vision.

 

A brand means diddle squat if the area once you've arrived does not live up to the hype.

[marshman]

Dave - that is not quite right!!! DEFRA have not yet given their opinion but the indications are that they will not object!!! I believe the formal letter acknowledging this is awaited!!

 

i would hope and expect this letter to confirm that the legal position has not changed - which it cannot!!!

 

And I am not sure  that we here are not all singing from the same hymn sheet - the Green Tourism logo and awards have nothing to do with the BA. The Green Tourism Business Scheme is a national grading scheme and is run by Green Business and has no particular connection to Broadland at all - its nationwide.

 

There have been local Green initiatives but why shouldn't there be?

 

Your argument about  funding etc is very valid but you are almost talking yourself into approval for the probable forthcoming change of name  - surely everyone would agree to CALL the Broads a NP can do only good to tourism generally? It is unlikely to have a negative effect is it?

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

I think people SHOULD be vary aware of the Broads becoming a full National Park, because as soon as it does so, the laws, rules, and regulations for all manner of things are then completely different. Imagine a hirefleet owner with say 20 boats in their fleet deciding they want to expand to 30, but being told what type of boats they`re allowed to have, and what colours they have to be. Then imagine a riverside shop owner who wishes to smarten up the frontage of their premises, only to be told they cannot do so, as it would destroy the delicate balance of building styles in the region, or what colour doors people can paint in a village somewhere.

 

Such actions may exist already, but with the NP authorities new found powers, they will make ludicrous decisions with no logic behind them.

 

How do i know this?,  Living on the fringes of the New Forest National Park, i can cite a thousand examples of unnessecary beaurocracy, which has closed local buisnesses, and lead to local people selling up to rich occaisional visiting outsiders, and moving away from their lifelong homes.

 

Keep the Broads OUT of the National Park network i say, some people somewhere WILL regret it.

 

The other thing to consider is if the Broads are kept OUT of the National park network, it might just be a factor in new buisness starting up due to less beaurocracy, not to mention keeping existing buisnesses going, now that WOULD be a benefit to the local tourist economy.

[LondonRascal]

I must apologise - the Green Tourism Business Scheme is independent from the Broads Authority but the authority have help 'champion' it with local business and promote its benefits.

 

Information about The Green Tourism Business Scheme can be found at: www.green-tourism.com

[Oddfellow]

The Broads Tourism forum has very worthy aims, but to my mind does too little to court new members. 

 

I am not a member of the forum and have not really been chased to join. I am not a member of the Green Boat Scheme either; we have all the details, and most boats would obtain a Bronze award already or with minor tweaking. I am unaware of any motor cruiser on  the Broads that would get close to a Gold and so to share the views of one of those well-known people in the photo in the EDP article linked to in the OP, second or third place in such a scheme is just a bit pants to my mind. 

 

I know Simon Middleton who was brought in to work on the branding some years ago. He followed the brief and developed something that was welcomed by the forum at that time. It was not his role to disseminate the information and promote it amongst the business community. Simon has since focussed all his attentions on attentions on putting into practice his marketing skills into a new company and is no longer working on this.

 

The Broads is a Brand in itself. Too few people appreciate it's existence and to help get the message out there, having an easily identifiable brand that is used throughout the area's marketing whether by official groups, autonomous groups such as the Broads Tourism Forum and/or individual companies within the area from the very big to the very small will help bring about a recognition to the wider public. Being allowed to call the area a National Park rather than being of member of the NP family will have significant benefits and, with the navigation element of the BA's income being so significant and with funding receding elsewhere, it seems highly unlikely that boating on the Broads is in any jeopardy, quite apart from the likely collapse of the local economy should navigation be banned. 

 

But Robin is right about living up to the hype too. The Broads are under serviced. We have GYBC removing waste collections, too few riverside facilities provided by the authorities, not enough public moorings and the proposal to remove foot access to one. 

[JennyMorgan]

Marshman wrote:

 

 

- surely everyone would agree to CALL the Broads a NP can do only good to tourism generally? It is unlikely to have a negative effect is it?

 

Inevitably I'm not convinced. Already on Oulton Broad we have a conservation area and we are governed by NP planning rules. For better or worse I live in the conservation area. We are already being told what colour our garden sheds should be and what our windows should be made of, effectively we now have a planning blight which sometimes effects one side of the road but not the other, grossly unfair.

 

That aside, the Authority executive area is closely allied with the river meaning that many Broads associated attractions and facilities  are actually outside the notional park area, as is the case with the Oulton Broad village itself. In other words they are outside the control of the park authorities, lucky them. The downside being that mandatory controls to regulate to a standard expected by the public of a national park won't apply.

 

The St Olaves mooring saga has already illustrated the national parks dilemma, many pontoon objectors already assuming that the Broads is a national parks and saying the proposed mooring pontoons shouldn't be allowed in a national park. On the other hand there will be others, I'm sure, who will say that as a national park the Broads should have such facilities, I see problems ahead on this one.

 

As a visitor to and enthusiastic supporter of national parks, despite planning strangleholds, I really don't think the Broads meets the widely perceived requirements of being a national park. As with the above mooring pontoon saga people will say something should or shouldn't be done because the area is thought to be a national park.  Anyway, I think it is too late, witness the intense developments at Wroxham & Horning and the proposed Pegasus development at Oulton Broad, surely not what one would expect of a national park? Sympathetic development has a place on the Broads but I am sometimes hard pushed to find it!

 

Will the national parks tag help tourism? Maybe, maybe not but rather than being The Broads we become just another National Park. We will be out to attract national park customers rather than Broads customers. Can we compare with the likes of Snowdonia or the Peak District National Parks? There are just so many national parks customers out there, only so many people in stout walking boots and floppy hats, we should be out to nurture, develop and retain Broads customers, in my sincere and honest opinion. 

 

The Broads is The Broads. We have long had a wonderful tag, Broadland, let's use it. Waterland, pah!

[JennyMorgan]

Andy very wisely wrote:

 

The Broads is a Brand in itself.

 

  Exactly.

 

That is precisely what the industry should be promoting, The Broads, not trying to pinch someone else's tagline.  

[Polly]

The Broads are different, I think. Looking at NPs like The Lake District, Peaks, etc. the 'heritage' is a bit smarter, more National Trust Shop in appearance, at least, that is my impression gained over visits. We are definitely scruffier and I am not sure how that plays in the NP ethos. Sure the broads, reedbeds, marshes and rivers are breathtaking, but the settlements certainly aren't up there with Matlock or Ambleside, so name or no name, some folk will not visit/revisit in the way they do the other NPs.

I can't see that a name change will have that much impact.

Better tourist facilities would help and these can only be provided through profitable businesses, so knocking efforts seems a bit counterproductive!

This is not to say, 'tidy away the boatyards' btw, they really matter; but I would happily lose the fish and chip shacks and Hoveton's awful 60s 'village centre'.

[JennyMorgan]

Polly wrote:

 

'lose the fish and chip shacks'

 

Polly, how could I survive a week on the Broads without the delights and health benefits of soggy fish & chips?

 

Matlock or Potter Heigham? Well, the 'shed city' aspect sits well in the NP ethos in my opinion but CooDee/Lathams and the village centre, hardly! Horsey Mill is quintessentially NP in my books, love it, but is that what the masses will want?

[MauriceMynah]

Speaking as a "Mass" I can say most emphatically that what I want is what I've got. I've known it better, I've known it worse. I can think of improvements that some might say are retrograde steps and I know of some improvements that have (in my opinion) made things worse.

 

I would continue to visit the area and love it even it it was agreed by the authorities to rename it "The Norfolk Slums".

 

 

What I DO object to is "our" money being spent unwisely. I consider "re branding" as such an expense.

Back then "Magical waterland" now "National Park" next "Convenient bogland"?

 

Each time considerable sums are being spent, and for what? An increase in tourism? I think not!

I was alerted by someone to look at the monetary figures quoted in "real terms"

They don't make such pretty reading when you do that!

 

Nah, at the risk of repeating myself, the whole article was a shoddy piece of journalism designed to fill space in what I'm increasingly starting to regard as a rather questionable rag!

[ExUserGone]

How can an idustrial wasteland comprising a load of old peat diggings connected by man made comercial navigation channels protected by man made flood defense schemes to keep the commercial farmland dry, all powered by electric pumps ever be classed as 'natural' or 'national park', I think 'convenient bogland' describes it all pretty well in reality.

Now if the whole area were allowed to flood and silt up that would be another matter and would probably follow the national park ethic of conservation, albeit an economic disaster for most of norfolk.

The sale of banjo's and dungeree's would go up though.....

[BroadScot]

I looked at this site that Robin showed www.green-tourism.com I looked at it for my tourist area where I live. Not impressed!

 

Iain.

 

[MauriceMynah]

The sale of banjo's and dungeree's would go up though..... :clap :clap

[Polly]

I am perfectly happy with the Broads as a working landscape, it it what it is. I like Roys, and the riverside at Horning. The chalets are part of the deal, fine by me, too. I just think a couple more quality facilities in places like Potter and Hoveton would probably do well, it's expensive hiring a boat, after all, and not all are stag groups looking for beer and basic. There must be money to be made?

[BroadScot]

 

 

There must be money to be made? 

Yep Polly, selling ice cream from a rag n stick...now that would be "Brilliant" Sorry Polly couldny help myself

 

Iain

[Oddfellow]

There has been a huge amount of wasted money in "promoting" the area, for sure. 

 

Reinvention is often very expensive and often the result in years of screwing things up; not noticing and reacting to change; not investing wisely or simply doing little or nothing. 

 

Reinvention of the Broads is unnecessary. Relaunching is unnecessary. Simply telling more people about what we have under our proper name is all that is needed. We don't need to rebrand; we simply need to shout louder and more cohesively and, becoming a National Park may help, but is an absolutely unnecessary exercise that could easily lead to many more problems down the line.