BuffaloBill Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 It's all about pollution and nothing else. How often have you been behind a diesel car at traffic lights/road junctions and then had to drive through the cloud of smoke as it takes off? Many times iv'e had to close my 'fresh air' intakes on the aircon because of it.It's because of them that there has been a massive increase in Asthma cases since everyone was encouraged to buy diesel cars.It is easy to get a smoking diesel through it's MOT by putting an additive in the tank the day before the test and a quick 'thrash' up the road will clear the muck and 'Hey Presto', job done, and then afterwards it goes back to being the stinky/smokey old nail that it was before.Roadside tests should be carried out to catch these polluting cars and get them off the road until they are fixed which usually means a repair to the turbo or a replacement to cure it. Not always, but usually.As an ex-mechanic, I will never buy a diesel car let alone a second hand one, and I only have a diesel engined boat for safety reasons as the flappy jobs are not for me.I'm sure that many people on here will disagree with my take on this subject, but that's my opinion.Carry on cruising 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadScot Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 I drive a now year old 1.5Diesel Injection (Renault) Never seen any smoke from its exhaust. The modern and that's the trick, the word Modern engines are far more cleaner and fuel efficient, IMHO of course. Iain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnks34 Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 I drive a now year old 1.5Diesel Injection (Renault) Never seen any smoke from its exhaust. The modern and that's the trick, the word Modern engines are far more cleaner and fuel efficient, IMHO of course. Iain.Completely agree Iain, we are a 2 diesel family, a 2008 vehicle with 130000 miles on the clock and a 2014 vehicle with 10000 on the clock, ive never seen either of them smoke and ive driven behind both vehicles at one time or another and I atleast have never noticed any nasty niffs.There are diesels that do smell and I notice it to be from older diesel vehicles, usually poorly maintained looking transit vans etc etc In my opinion modern diesels are far superior to the earlier motors but each to their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadScot Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 This was my first ever Diesel car I have owned when I acquired it through Motability last year. I drove years ago, hire Transit vans that were diesel and agree were real noisy smokers. When I test drove my Renault Scenic DCi I was amazed how quiet it was, and at motorway speed, you cannot hear the engine at all. For the size of the engine, it is nippy and that is a big MPV car. I got it firstly as the boot is huge and takes my mobile scooter with space to spare. Iain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Longer term I think propane fuel would be better on the broads. Diesels can be (non-trivially) converted:http://www.greencarcongress.com/2004/09/retrofitting_di.htmlBut if we start moving in that direction now then over time (say 20 years) things could be much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauriceMynah Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Or, more likely, in 20 years time they will find something to moan about with LPG and ask why we don't all buy those diesel cars we used to like so much! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webntweb Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Wouldn't fancy a boat with an engine running on gas. if there was a leak on a car the gas would dissipate into the surrounding air; on a boat it could end up in the bilge.Roy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 England has got to be the most backward country ever. Am I to infer that the rest of the UK is forward? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodsafloat Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 I am brand new to this forum so excuse me if this has been raised before. I was looking into the price of marine diesel on the Broads and just by making a few phone calls I found such a variation in price.This ranged from 0.99p per litre to £1.35, where is the cheapest place for diesel on the broads?? Maybe a website like petrolprices.com for the broads would hepl bring the prices down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) The issue with any potential shortfall in Diesel supply in the UK is down to the fact that UK diesel refineries are foreign owned, mostly French. They have suffered years of under investmant, are old and inefficient. There is an over production of diesel in Europe and refiners are looking to reduce the supply to compensate. Inevitably the most cost effective method of rationalisation is to close those old, inefficient UK refineries. Milford Haven has gone, Stanlow has gone, Lindsey is going, that will leave only four refineries which are likely to all close by 2020 meaning all UK diesel will be imported.Of course, that is of little concern to refiners whose main aim is to produce as cheaply as possible and sell as expensively as possible.I'm right in line with BB, I wouldn't touch diesel with a disinfected barge pole. They may be much better than they were in the 70's and 80's but what isn't. The fact that you can't see anything coming out of the tail pipe doesn't mean they are not still chucking out loads of crap that may not be so harmful to polar bears, but kills people. We were all told to jump onboard diesel because of it's lower CO2 emissions, nobody considered the effects of NOx and Particulate matter, or if they did it was swept under the carpet. About 30,000 people die of respiratory illness related to airborne pollution every year, and whilst diesel fumes are not the only cause they are the biggest single contributor. That is about one third of the number of people who die from smoking, though of course the smokers can only blame themselves........There is also the issue of "true" emissions, and this is something I am sure we will hear much more about in future. The ability of modern diesel cars to mask emissions when under test conditions in order to appear cleaner than they really are. The VW issue in the USA has just hit the news, do not imagine VW are alone, and this only affects cars sold in the US. It may only be prosecuted in the US where specific laws exist to prevent this kind of deception.The fact is diesel, as a fuel is dirty and no matter what you do to the machinery that burns it, it remains dirty and always will. Edited September 20, 2015 by Paul 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockham Admiral Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 I am brand new to this forum so excuse me if this has been raised before. I was looking into the price of marine diesel on the Broads and just by making a few phone calls I found such a variation in price.This ranged from 0.99p per litre to £1.35, where is the cheapest place for diesel on the broads?? Maybe a website like petrolprices.com for the broads would hepl bring the prices down?Woodsafloat, hi and a warm welcome aboard the good ship NBN! Northern Broads, 0.99 is about right in Horning. Southern Broads £1.03 in Brundall. I think there aren't enough buyers on the Broads to justify a waterborne website as you suggest. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDTRIPLE Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 The other thing with a fuel website is it might tell you where to get the cheapest fuel from, but what about the logistics of it. What if you have a boat moored at Stalham, or somewhere equally as further afield, and the cheapest deisel is at goodchilds. How are you going to get it?, take the boat down there to fill up, or transport it in 5 gallon Jerry cans. Either way, it`ll cost more in the long run than simply buying it local. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnks34 Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Am I to infer that the rest of the UK is forward?What I was getting at was the closing refineries part of the article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranworthbreeze Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I am brand new to this forum so excuse me if this has been raised before. I was looking into the price of marine diesel on the Broads and just by making a few phone calls I found such a variation in price.This ranged from 0.99p per litre to £1.35, where is the cheapest place for diesel on the broads?? Maybe a website like petrolprices.com for the broads would hepl bring the prices down?Hello Woodsafloat,Welcome to the NBN forum from Tan & myself.Please check out the following link to our information pages with regards to the current fuel prices and locations on the Broads.RegardsAlan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I think one of the big issues to come is illustrated in many of the other posts in that people believe that because they are driving more modern vehicles they are cleaner. Diesels can indeed be made to be very clean if the correct tech is fitted, however if it is proved that the manufacturers are indeed fitting devices to stop / limit emissions when detecting the car is on test in order to pass emission standards then the whole diesel environmental con is going to be exposed, and the below article today is very timely http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/11878435/Europe-must-now-come-clean-on-diesel.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyMorgan Posted September 21, 2015 Author Share Posted September 21, 2015 There are byelaws in place to restrict emissions on the Broads but for whatever reason the BA has always resisted calls to use them in relation to under-run or poorly maintained diesels on the Broads. Personally I believe that a limit to emissions should have been a part of the BSS. Only a guess but I wonder if the thinking might be that a smelly diesel is safer than than a petrol engine thus 'dirty' diesels are tolerated. Perhaps it's time to stop looking the other way on this one. After all two-stroke outboards have had the chop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Thankyou for the link Mark. There will be a lot more to come yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyMorgan Posted September 21, 2015 Author Share Posted September 21, 2015 Thankyou for the link Mark. There will be a lot more to come yet Perhaps it's already coming:http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/environment/pollution_levels_in_parts_of_norwich_higher_than_london_1_4240549On a quiet evening, no wind, exhaust emissions can just sit on the water, contained by the reed lined banks. Not nice for those of us in rowing boats and kayaks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockham Admiral Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Perhaps it's time to stop looking the other way on this one. After all two-stroke outboards have had the chop. Do you mean that my beloved rusty old British Seagull isn't allowed anymore, Peter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Diesel can be scrubbed of the NOx emissions via the addition of Urea but requires tanks/re fills (and no you cant just pee in the tank) http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-11/i-uto111008.phphttp://www.greencarreports.com/news/1042727_adding-urea-to-clean-diesel-cars-can-i-just-pee-in-the-tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyMorgan Posted September 21, 2015 Author Share Posted September 21, 2015 Is there a viable alternate that is totally Green? DaveYes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyMorgan Posted September 21, 2015 Author Share Posted September 21, 2015 Do you mean that my beloved rusty old British Seagull isn't allowed anymore, Peter?I'm unsure of the exact dates but at this point in time, or one just around the corner, I believe that it is no longer permissible to manufacture, or even sell new two strokes, especially 25 to 1 ones! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauriceMynah Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 25 to 1 ? I think my Seagull is 9 to 1 !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bound2Please Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Old seagull all were 25:1 newer ones were 10;1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyMorgan Posted September 21, 2015 Author Share Posted September 21, 2015 John, they can be converted to 25 to 1:http://www.seagullparts.co.uk/tips.html#fuelcon.10 t0 1, so long ago that I forgot! Wish I'd kept mine now. quirky but reliable and I could service it blindfolded!! Well, bit of a lie is that but it was an absolute doddle to work on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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