BA campaigns against engine running

[JennyMorgan]

Shopping Malls and Marinas have something in common, both are best avoided in my opinion, but both are hugely popular. Imagine a noise free Mall? It just won't happen, even on the eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month. Solution, avoid the places like the plague! 

In the meantime, I just hope that Authority keeps up the pressure. As many of you know I have the great good fortune to live besides the water. Long been our way to sleep with the windows open during the warmer months. Great, love the natural dawn chorus, but nowadays that chorus is quite likely to be the roar of someone firing up their engine. Not nearly so loud is a boat's central heating, in the summer for heaven's sakes! 

Sound travels over the water, I have both a yacht station and a twenty-four hour mooring within half a mile of my home. Depending on wind direction either or both can be a source of early morning noise. Not always loud but nevertheless unnecessary and annoying. 

[smellyloo]

Like those who live near a motorway those that live on the riverbank should expect noise ....... and accept being the subject of inquisitive wildlife observers.

In spite if all I would love to live where you do ...... if only I could find that winning lottery ticket.

 

[JennyMorgan]

Fair comment, Lou, but this noise is a relatively new phenomenon, and arguably is avoidable. On a quiet night we can hear a pin drop. One boat using its microwave can disturb a lot of people, not just me! Surely we shouldn't just accept an increase in noise pollution without question.

[smellyloo]

18 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Fair comment, Lou, but this noise is a relatively new phenomenon, and arguably is avoidable. On a quiet night we can hear a pin drop. One boat using its microwave can disturb a lot of people, not just me! Surely we shouldn't just accept an increase in noise pollution without question.

Sadly the world is becoming noisier. Our watches, ipods, cookers, cars, lorries, police cars, ambulances, car alarms, house alarms, tv's, computers ..... well just about anything that can have a power source inserted ...... seem destined to excrete unnessary noise.

And if I lived in your idylic abode I too would moan about just about everything. Even tho I live in a city hovel I still find loads to moan about. What I find really annoying is people who seem blissfully happy!! Now that can't be right can it?

[MauriceMynah]

Oh I'm   "H" "A" "P" "P" "Y",

yes I'm   "H" "A" "P" "P" "Y",

I'm sure I am,

No I know I am,

Yes I'm " "H" "A" "P" "P" "Y"

[BroadScot]

25 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

Oh I'm   "H" "A" "P" "P" "Y",

yes I'm   "H" "A" "P" "P" "Y",

I'm sure I am,

No I know I am,

Yes I'm " "H" "A" "P" "P" "Y"

MM????Have you found that BEER you were looking for! 

[vanessan]

I'm with Gracie on this one, I quite like the sound of boat engines - at the right time. I remember a story I read a couple of years back about 2 boats travelling together. They had moored at Ranworth and the boat parties returned to their boats from the Malsters around 10pm I believe. One party started their boat engine and then joined the party on the second boat for a couple of hours, returning to shut off the engine and retire to bed! Now that is definitely anti- social and I don't know if anything was said at the time. I do wonder how many folk would shy away from confrontation as it can so often turn nasty. I think on the Broads most people would tackle the problem as, in the main, we are a sociable lot but there is always the exception.

I too have heard a boat's heating running during the summer months, even on a sunny, warmish spring day! That reminds me, only 3 more weeks and the clocks go forward - whooooopeee! 

[BroadScot]

3 minutes ago, vanessan said:

That reminds me, only 3 more weeks and the clocks go forward - whooooopeee! 

Then WINTER really begins!!! 

[vanessan]

But at least we can pretend it's nice 'cos it's spring! 

[BroadScot]

2 minutes ago, vanessan said:

But at least we can pretend it's nice 'cos it's spring! 

Agreed, having sampled ALL kinds of weather on the Broads at Easter. Although my comment was tongue in cheek, we have shovled SNOW off the boat on Easter Good Friday outside the Ferry Inn at Horning, and seen a Snowman cruising by on top of a Carribean Major the family must have put together from the snow on the roof!

Easter is early this year, so lets hope its not too cold, and you don't hear engines running at silly O'clock. Well we can dream!

Iain.

[JennyMorgan]

5 hours ago, MauriceMynah said:

Oh I'm   "H" "A" "P" "P" "Y",

yes I'm   "H" "A" "P" "P" "Y",

I'm sure I am,

No I know I am,

Yes I'm " "H" "A" "P" "P" "Y"

They'll be coming to take you away, ho ho, tee hee, they'll be coming to take you away . . . . . . . . . . . . . 

[JennyMorgan]

4 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

They'll be coming to take you away, ho ho, tee hee, they'll be coming to take you away . . . . . . . . . . . . . 

For those of you who are wandering what I'm going on about please see:

 

[BroadScot]

Wow JM,  bygone "music"  Remember it well 

[JennyMorgan]

I can just picture MM singing it as he swabs his decks to the dawn chorus from neighboring boats. 

[Broadsword]

Correction to my earlier post - it was the hire companies Mr Vernon was meeting with - not the hirers!

London Rascal, your lengthy post underlines exactly why I have made the suggestion of some designated quiet moorings.  Whilst the hire companies continue to provide boats that need to have their engines run whilst stationary, those of us who are greatly irritated by the practice should have some protection from such a blessed nuisance!

 

[Vaughan]

I have already given my - very old fashioned - opinion, but I would say that the hire companies would only go to all that extra building and maintenance cost because their modern customers are demanding these extras.

There is no doubt, from my experience, that the customers have changed and their expectations of luxury are much higher.

Far too high, if you like, but I've already said that!

Let's be positive though, in light of this technology. It needs more moorings, with more shore power points.

[riyadhcrew]

Vaughan,

Whilst I know where you're coming from (and I agree with you), I think that what used to be 'Luxuries" is now what is expected as basics. I started Norfolk Broads boating in 1971 and accepted whatever was there. Nowadays, a microwave is the norm, pump toilets are a no-no and the first thing I get asked when suggesting a possible boat is "has it got wi-fi". Times are a changing and if the hire companies want to stay in business, they have to go with the times.

[SwanR]

I have resisted adding any more to this thread for a long time. But all that seems to be happening now is people having a rant about the boats the hire companies are putting out. Do you mean to tell me that no private boats have got microwaves and all mod cons?

As I already said, many pages back, electric posts are not the answer even if you could get the power supply there, as some hire companies don't let holidaymakers take a power lead out with them, including probably the largest one of all.

This doesn't feel much like the Friendly Norfolk Broads Forum at the moment from a hirer's perspective.

[Bound2Please]

9 minutes ago, SwanR said:

 Do you mean to tell me that no private boats have got microwaves and all mod cons?

 

Well I have disconnected the inverter, on this new to us boat we just bought. As we like to get away from all the mod cons. Our previous boat was wired for 24 shore power but we never ever used it.

That said if people hire and need to charge batteries i have no objections as long as its done at sensible hours and not silly oclock...

I mean boat engines running pass you by when moored, are people saying these passing craft disturb them as well?

LIVE N LET LIVE i say as long as its at sensible times of day

[Broadsword]

SwanR, and anyone else who feels offended, please don't - I manage with absolutely none of these luxuries... but I am not saying you can't have them.  We are content with enough electricity to charge a 'phone or power a light so that we can read in bed, and a simple gas stove that we use outside wherever possible, to annoy our neighbours with the fragrance of bacon. Our toilet is a Thetford Porta-Potti and in the remaining places where we can, we use the toilets and showers provided (thankfully there are still quite a few.) For us, part of the fun of being on our boat is leaving much of that stuff behind for a few days of simplicity. We have no fridge so, every day we take a walk to find the shop and buy what we need for that day... etc.

I understand, of course, that not everyone is mobile, fit and able to live that simple life and accept their right to enjoy the pleasures of the Broads and their need of some on-board support to do so. I don't think this is the main reason for this problem though!

All I ask is that your happiness and enjoyment of your boat shouldn't greatly erode my happiness on mine; is that unreasonable?  I would be just as annoyed if you were a private owner running your engine for ages a few feet from me, as I would if you were a hirer. I have hired and used motor cruisers and never found it necessary to do this.

I am all for more shore power points Vaughan (especially if it stops the engine noise...), but some of us would be happy to see continued investment in shore showers and toilets!

[JennyMorgan]

18 minutes ago, Bound2Please said:

Well I have disconnected the inverter, on this new to us boat we just bought. As we like to get away from all the mod cons. Our previous boat was wired for 24 shore power but we never ever used it.

That said if people hire and need to charge batteries i have no objections as long as its done at sensible hours and not silly oclock...

I mean boat engines running pass you by when moored, are people saying these passing craft disturb them as well?

LIVE N LET LIVE i say as long as its at sensible times of day

They do but then it's a passing noise, one that we all, even most of us 'sailies' resort to on occasions.

Especially on the North Rivers close proximity moorings are pretty much the norm so it does become an issue for many of us. It's not just the constant noise either, for me its the noxious stench of exhaust fumes that is really the issue.  

[JennyMorgan]

Danny, so very true. The smaller the boat, the greater the pleasure, who needs comfort? Well, I do! Tucked up in my tent, polar suited, reading a book and listening to the outside world, suitably supported by sail bags and spare clothing, I'm probably as comfortable as anyone in their super-cruiser, until it rains. My wife, on the other hand, who has arthritis and several kilos of metal work supporting her spine, does value full sitting headroom in a cabin, and standing room under the cockpit cover. Thankfully we have access to either, and no great desire to give in to a dependency on shore power or generators although, who knows, maybe when I make eighty!  

[LondonRascal]

I can well see why many people want to come to the rivers to get away from all the noise and stresses of life - and are happy to be in a small 'weekender' boat but I can't see how it would be viable to have peaceful moorings for those who just want to be quiet when overall so many moorings have been lost anyway.

History shows us it has always been the case of different hire boat builders trying to outdo their competition.  When you look at Herbert Wood he wanted to combine a raft of ideas into his new builds.  Not just the smooth running engines, consideration to separating the engine bay from living areas and good ventilation to keep petrol fumes down  - but the soft comfortable berths, the nice crockery and practical layouts found inside were just as important.  Even beneath the water a great deal of thought was put into the shape of the hull to minimize wash and drag, a large well designed rudder to aid low speed steerage - these were well ahead of what other yards were producing.

When you then look at when GRP arrived on the scene and it began to be used as a building material for boats. Enter Frank Wild - he was not happy to just mould a boat that looked the same as the rest but happened to be shiny white and new - no, he brought an idea where the home comforts arrived on the boat.  A fitted kitchen, free standing furniture, blown hot air for heating are just a few examples to spoil and 'wow' his customers but like Herbert Wood he thought past the interior so mounted the engine 'outside' at the aft of the boat to keep noise down inside, the wide side decks for safety and the stable design the forwards steer 'flat bottom' boat afforded were very different to the typical boats on hire at the time. 

In 2016 it is no longer good enough to just have a new boat that looks nice and is well fitted inside because while some customers would be content with this, the majority want the extras - they don't want to know how it works but prefer to press a button to flush a toilet, not have to press a button to empty the shower tray.  If you try something new out - like fit a generator on a boat and offer people the ability to use an electric kettle, fan assisted oven and domestic sized fridge and your customers appreciate this and comment on how nice it was to have as a boatyard who exists solely to stay in business and turn a profit, you are not going to stop such developments.

I am convinced that when diesel fired heating began to replace gas catalytic heaters on boats, you would at the time have had many a person complain about the noise the exhausts made and how the gas heaters while not as safe and produced all that condensation, were at least silent to those outside. 

What does it tell us?  At the end of the day money will always be the strongest influence and the quest to make more money comes at the expense of many other things in life and in the case of the Broads, it could well mean the demise of tranquilly.

[Broadsword]

I'm not arguing with the logic of that Robin, but I don't agree that dedicated quiet moorings are not achievable and I am grateful to Adrian Vernon for at least taking the suggestion seriously! Many of the more remote moorings are just that already, as most of the big beasts stay away (opting for proximity to the staithes, pubs etc.) or can't get to them (Horsey/Catfield for example) So, to put up a sign on all of them may not be necessary.

Bearing in mind that, by definition, those of us who rough it are tougher and more resilient than the rest of you to reserve say, the further end of Paddy's Lane (away from Barton Turf) or the smaller side of Ranworth/Malthouse moorings should not be difficult or cause significant problems.

I have suggested several areas where I think it would be very straightforward and am sure there are others - across the river from Horning Ferry; one of the two mooring stretches as you enter South Walsham; The moorings by the mill at Potter, before you get to the busy area by Herbert Woods; the upriver end of the Acle Bridge moorings, either side etc.  Sorry about my Northern Rivers bias!

[Soundings]

Another short post  Robin

If that is the way it will go then that is the end of the Broads and, indeed, much of he nature that tries to thrive within. If that is what people want or are willing to accept (and in the name of profit) then that is very sad imo. Putting on tin hat - maybe conservation should be the premier concern of the BA. Certainly the desire of the yards to make more money at the expense of something special needs to be stopped.