Breydon Crossing

[Boatyman]

If u have a boat with a 6'6 air draft, can you then cross Breydon waters at any time as apposed to Waiting for

Slack water?

[Baitrunner]

The main point of hitting slack water is to minimise punching the tide rather than air draft.  Unless you moor up at the gyys you will be punching a lot of water at the worst case. 

Of course if you have a 200hp engine it won't make much odds other a couple of quid in fuel 

[Wonderwall]

The 2 mile or so stretch of river above and below , and Breydon waters themselves are not the prettiest, so you really want  the tide pushing you on, or none at all. 

[Hockham Admiral]

9 hours ago, Boatyman said:

If u have a boat with a 6'6 air draft, can you then cross Breydon waters at any time as opposed to Waiting for

Slack water?

I know that Rod (SallyB) who is a professional (sea) Pilot has been through Gt Yarmouth at High Water. He has an Alpha 35FD very similar to our Friday Girl with an air height of 6ft 6".

SallyB seen next to Friday Girl a few years ago:

[Vaughan]

The safest way is to go through about an hour after slack water. That way you will be against a bit of current to give you good control of the boat and you can stop or moor easily if you need to. As the tide starts coming up the Yare an hour before it turns on the Bure, this also means you will have a good strong current to speed you across Breydon.

I always told customers to go through Acle bridge at the time given for low water in the yacht station, and that would hit it about right. That is assuming the speed limit is still 7MPH - maybe I'm out of date!

[JanetAnne]

7mph!

They  don't even let the ski boats do that these days... lol

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

The safest way is to go through about an hour after slack water. That way you will be against a bit of current to give you good control of the boat and you can stop or moor easily if you need to

As Vaughan has said, that's the most crucial factor, hence it always being the standard advice given to hirers in  the guide books.

Some forum posters occasionally poo poo this advice, saying that it discourages newbies from making the Yarmouth transit by making it sound unnecessarily complicated.

The crucial point is the "good control of the boat" which is far easier at slack or slow current speeds.

Whether the tide is with you or against you, the average flow through the very narrow and restricted Yarmouth Bure is around 5mph, which makes turning and stopping very difficult, especially when other moving craft are in close proximity.

My boat has a 200hp single engine, so I could maintain a 5mph speed against an adverse current of up to 25mph, but it would still be awkward if the prop fouled or if other less powerful craft got into difficulty in front of me and we all started going backwards or had to turn.

I always transit Yarmouth at around slack water, it's so easy to predict, and it's sensible "seamanship" to use tides, rather than fight them, no matter how powerful your boat is.

[Regulo]

And don't rely solely on the predicted low/slack times, weather conditions in the North Sea and heavy prolonged rainfall can change what isn't set in stone. Always worth a quick call to the YS staff if you're not sure. More related to headroom, I know, as low tide will always be low tide!

[brandenjg]

Out of curiosity if I wanted to take my dandy across Breydon from burgh castle across to Yarmouth what tide would I be best to take, slack, coming in or going out?

 I ask as I went past burgh castle towards the old Berney arms against the tide and wind and we were crashing up and down full throttle averaging 4.92 mph.  It was pretty fun if I'm honest although the wife felt a bit queasy 

[ExUserGone]

For bridge headroom attached is the chart used by breydon bridge and the port authority, it is based on chart datum NOT the heights used by BA in their tide tables, if you have a 3g or 4g device you can get height above chart datum from http://www.eastportuk.co.uk/Tidal_Chart.aspx

It is usually about 10-15 minutes behind real time, it lumps the 3 fixed bridges together but I know I can get my boat under haven at 2m above CD with room to spare IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ARCH, I need 8'8", this is not for the bure bridges as I believe they are lower than haven.

Tidal flows is up to you to determine as I don't know your boat or experience so wont comment.

[ExUserGone]

Edit above to point out that obviously haven is not a fixed bridge but it is a pain to get lifted at short notice.

Quote

it lumps the 3 fixed bridges together

That was me being stupid....

[Boatyman]

The only reason you I ask, is i want to come to the summer meet, but I want to arrive on a boat. I could hire from Horizon craft at Acle on the Friday and get it Friday eve. Slack water is okay on sat but I'll need to come back on the Sunday after our meeting in the eve  some time but if I read correct slack water isn't till around 9pm that's to late and dark which is why I ask if it would be okay to cross Breydon other than slack water.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Boatyman said:

which is why I ask if it would be okay to cross Breydon other than slack water.

The word "okay" has a wide range of meanings Boatyman !

No-one will stop you, it's your choice, though the hire company may be a bit miffed if anything goes wrong.

If you wanted to cross Breydon 2 to 3 hours before slack, you'd have the full Ebb pushing you down the Yare across the wide Breydon (which wouldn't be too bad), but then you'd still have plenty of the full Ebb against you when you turn up into the Bure through the narrows of Yarmouth.

You'd then be fighting a 5 mph adverse current for a couple of hours, with the motor flat out to achieve about 8mph through the water to get about 3mph "over land speed". This would use a great deal more fuel and be much noisier.

The 5mph head current through Yarmouth would actually make maneuvering for you easier, providing your engine doesn't falter or you get a fouled prop, or you don't meet someone coming the other way, (being pushed along by the 5mph current) who could have great difficulty in steering, stopping, or turning.

[Vaughan]

Why not come over Breydon in the early evening and spend the night in the Yacht Station. You can then leave an hour after slack the following morning and have the rising tide under you all the way to Acle. Depends when you have to return the boat to Horizon. In theory this should get you back at midday on Monday, if that is all right with them, by prior arrangement.

I am sure other forumites can recommend a good pub in Great Yarmouth for the night!

[Vaughan]

6 hours ago, brandenjg said:

Out of curiosity if I wanted to take my dandy across Breydon from burgh castle across to Yarmouth what tide would I be best to take, slack, coming in or going out?

Sorry Branden, I forgot about your question. Going "the other way" northwards is always more complicated since, as I mentioned, the tide turns on Breydon an hour before it turns on the Bure. So you are going to be pushing the tide one way or the other, unless you wait moored in Yarmouth for a couple of hours.

The old wherrymen used to come down Breydon on the ebb and then "round up" to moor up at the Coal Wharf, where they would lower the mast and wait there until there was a good flow going up the Bure. They would then "drop down" through the bridges, which meant drifting through stern first with the mudweight dragging on the bottom on a short chain to keep the bows up into the current. Good use of the tiller kept the wherry in the middle of the stream. The skipper and crew worked together as shortening the chain gives a bit more speed while lengthening it gives better steering. They would then moor further up near what is now the Port of Yarmouth marina, in order to raise sail.

This manoeuvre, a great thing to watch, is still used by the more experienced skippers of what the forum sometimes refers to as "stick and rag thingies".

[BuffaloBill]

If I might add to this thread..... If anything should go wrong with your boat, be it a fouled prop or engine/fuel problems, I would prefer the tide pushing me up the Yare than down towards the sea and the bridge! At least you would be safer on the mud until help arrived. Just another reason to add to the 'flood tide' being beneficial.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

If I might add to this thread..... If anything should go wrong with your boat, be it a fouled prop or engine/fuel problems, I would prefer the tide pushing me up the Yare than down towards the sea and the bridge! At least you would be safer on the mud until help arrived. Just another reason to add to the 'flood tide' being beneficial.

True enough BB....

It would be pretty scary to be "flushed" rapidly past the Bure mouth entrance and on towards the stone piers of Haven Bridge.

Not much  chance of a mudweight holding there at 5mph sideways/backwards.....

[Vaughan]

Interesting you can still see the trace of the old railway that went over Vauxhall bridge and down onto North Quay and the Fishwharf. I can remember all the wagons there. Nothing left of Southtown station now, though.

[rightsaidfred]

Sorry if this sounds a bit simplistic but why not hire South Side, Silverline, Brooms or Pacific no worries about getting across and back then

Fred

 

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

On 07/06/2016 at 8:02 AM, Hockham Admiral said:

I know that Rod (SallyB) who is a professional (sea) Pilot has been through Gt Yarmouth at High Water. He has an Alpha 35FD very similar to our Friday Girl with an air height of 6ft 6".

SallyB seen next to Friday Girl a few years ago:

Judging by the colour of the cabin top John, that certainly WAS a few years ago?.

[TeamElla]

On 08/06/2016 at 8:29 AM, BuffaloBill said:

If I might add to this thread..... If anything should go wrong with your boat, be it a fouled prop or engine/fuel problems, I would prefer the tide pushing me up the Yare than down towards the sea and the bridge! At least you would be safer on the mud until help arrived. Just another reason to add to the 'flood tide' being beneficial.

I have good reason to agree with this, since the only time we have had anything wrapped around the prop was in the dark between Marina Keys and Vauxhall Bridge. The engine stopped dead and we drifting back upstream with the tide (until I brought us alongside with multiple sideways "launchings" of the mudweight) .. and there we spent the night.

Would not have fancied doing that on a falling tide...

[LondonRascal]

If you want to see what it is like going over Breydon water at the 'wrong time' and turning into the Bure with a full ebbing current against you in a hire boat - see below:

 

[JennyMorgan]

What sort of silly billy would even attempt it?!?

Makes a mockery of the speed-limit regulations! Both boats must have been going full blast through the water. 

[LondonRascal]

7 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

What sort of silly billy would even attempt it?!?

Ahh, yes those days back in 2012 when I was a young man with a zest for life and a rebel.  Or maybe I just happened to get tied up with a gang of Yorkshire men  

 

[JennyMorgan]

You need to choose your friends more wisely, or is it a case of choosing more wise friends? 

P.S. We tried it once, didn't get far up river before we started going backwards! Regretfully we had to moor up and wait for the tide, in the nearby boozer, how convenient was that?!