Ooooops...... Why Try It ....

[WherryNice]

I wonder, would some kind of E-Learning online training/test be a feasible way to increase the awareness/skill level of hirers? Some of the things I witness while sat here looking at Wayford Bridge are unbelieveable even for newbies - starting the engine in gear while double moored(blocking the bridge) and not even noticing they were dragging the bankside boat off its mooring springs to mind and the abuse our yard owners get from people who think they can just tie up any old where is frankly disgusting. I remember going on a Herbie Woods boat in the 90's and the "trial run" consisted of a bloke going "have you been before?" To which my dad says "Yep" and that was that. Now as it happened the old man was then and indeed is now a very competant helm and there was no issue but I bet theres plenty who would have just said yes even if they hadnt a clue and I wonder if it still happens?

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[ranworthbreeze]

It is not only hirers that need tuition on the Broads, In 2001 after 25 years of narrow boating I bought our share in Ranworth Breeze, out training consisted of doing figure 8's on Hoverton Little Broad (Black Horse Broad). 

No mooring with or against the tide and wind, rudimentary rope-work etc. 

These days if I give training to new owners I can spend anything from 4 to 6 hours with them practicing port, starboard  and stern mooring 

Boating like all other things in life is a leaning curve, all of us had to lean at some time or other and occasionally we can still get it wrong. 

Regards

Alan 

[Cheesey]

Way to kill the holiday trade.

Let's go on holiday but first we have to take this exam. Spend hours on tuition and when its dark go no where on the first night.

I'm a hire boater, own my own sailing yacht, RYA day skipper and know all about tide and tidal streams.

And still came in very wrong at cantley (spelt wrong but I'm not arguing with the spell checker)

Are all boat users qualified? Never had an embarrassing moment? Know all the colregs?

We could make boat use testable, you know, everybody who use the water take an exam, how's your off shore skills?

This is what insurance is for, enjoy the moment and thank god it isn't me this time. It will be one day.

[dnks34]

But does the average insurance policy cover for bridge damage, Im pretty sure our policy doesnt!  

[Hockham Admiral]

1 hour ago, Cheesey said:

Way to kill the holiday trade.

Let's go on holiday but first we have to take this exam. Spend hours on tuition and when its dark go no where on the first night.

This is what insurance is for, enjoy the moment and thank god it isn't me this time. It will be one day.

Cheesey, Hi.

(Mod hat OFF)

While I'm in agreement with you perhaps, when it comes to hire boats, I know that Alan (RB) has to spend a considerable amount of his limited holiday time teaching newcomers to Ranworth Breeze how to helm her reasonably well. If it's then dark when he's finished  then so be it.

RB is NOT a hire boat but the pride and joy of its co-owners who DO care about what happens to their boat when it goes out with newbies at the helm. Insurance doesn't come into a it.

Perhaps I've misunderstood but I think that you've got it wrong on this occasion.

[deebee29]

I may be wrong but I took Cheesey's post to be in response to WherryNice's post re e-learning training  as opposed to Alan's but I could be wrong 

[LondonRascal]

Until now, I have not commented on this topic    but now I am 

Boatyards that hire boats know things like this will happen - it has happened in this case to Broom, it has happened at this very location to Faircraft Loynes and surely will again with other yards in the future and has with others in the past. Brooms had a boat ram into one of the channel marker on Breydon a a fair lick in the past when they first began hiring again.

In short, this has and will always happen and to a fair degree the business who hire boats know this will - they cannot make the business model work without the risk that someone will cause several thousands of pounds of damage to one of the boats at least once in a season.

Now, some will say this is exactly what the Damage Waivers cover - costs outside of what the insurance covers, and in a way it would work very well.  Each hire gets a non-refundable amount and is kept in an account just to dip into when things like this happen, but it would also be very easy in a hard season to use this account to prop up other areas of the business and hope while that happens no costly accidents occur.

I am not saying Broom will just shrug their shoulders and not give a hoot, but to a large degree GRP boats are endlessly 'fixable' and being a yard who manufacture these boats and have all the skills needed and materials on site, any such damage this may have caused would be pretty easy to put right - even if it was time consuming. What really will cause issues is where the hire boat part of the business and remedial works needed for these boats get in the way of the main business of making new boats, and taking on private engineering work that pays and is the bread and butter. 

Where matters become far harder is when a smaller yard without the facilities on site to go into gear and fix such damage or large cash reserves or indeed the staff suffer.  Imagine if this was to be the Broads Boating Co. at Acle and their very tall boat 'Walsham' (formerly Prisma Horizon) hit Vauxhall Bridge when a mooring the Yacht Station  might go very badly -  they would be in a big pickle then to sort matters out and put right the damage

It is easy for people with hindsight to make judgment on what may have happened. How could they do this? we might ask - there really are countless times hirers have caused countless boats big damage when mooring or at bridges over the years and one has to remember that it is a skill managing a boat and one that is learnt in time. 

There are lots of people on this Forum who will get in a car and not think twice about the 'science of driving'.  Now I know how to drive sure, but put me in a car and it is not fluid because I lack experience, yet put me at a helm and it comes naturally because I have done it over and over and in different boats at different locations with different conditions.

In short, give hirers who are on their holidays a break when they do something and are suddenly hit with unexpected results - e.g. go to stop but the current keeps them moving, turn to the left and the boat carries on going sideways etc nothing else they will have controlled reacts like this it is completely  new and frankly going to be scary for all those concerned.

Nobody seems to have been hurt, a boat can be fixed, the bridge was fine too it therefore is just one of those things, there be more such in time and we can all pick up this baton with the same commentary when it happens again.

[Vaughan]

 As Robin says, this is a conversation that often comes round. I would like to say something on behalf of the trial run instructor and I am sure Wussername will agree :

 

3 hours ago, WherryNice said:

I remember going on a Herbie Woods boat in the 90's and the "trial run" consisted of a bloke going "have you been before?"

I can go on board a boat to give a trial run, and I can tell within about 10 seconds whether the party have experience or not. Don't ask me how I know - I think it is something to do with their general comportment when on a boat. There have been many times when the hirer has said "I've been before" but he has got a trial run anyway, because I could tell that although it may not have been his first time, he didn't learn a lot the last time!

Remember also that we are very busy on a Saturday afternoon. If we can do a "triage" and move off the experienced clients quickly, then it gives us more time to concentrate on the first - timers and give them the extra time and advice that they need.

The worst thing? The clients who are far too busy being being distracted by their assorted kids and trying to help them plug in all their little computer games and toys, and are therefore not listening to a bloody word you say. Sometimes you find they are already gathered round, watching the World Cup football on the telly, and actually resent your presence. When this happens, you might as well cast off the lines and say " There you go folks - have a very good holiday, and Horning Ferry is that way".

These are the ones who often end up stuck under bridges.

[Islander]

High tide and strong offshore wind at Cantley. I don't want to talk about it....yet.

A DVD sent showing the basics and a bit more I.e. Some of the mistakes made on YouTube, would cost pence to send to each hirer by Richardsons or HB's. Maybe the BHF could produce this for all hire companies?

Colin

p.s. Still not been told what time this happened.

 

[WherryNice]

Well I'm pleased that we passed Triage in that case Vaughan
Btw my E-learning idea wasnt meant to be anything heavy, more of a vehicle to introduce general boating knowlege/ethos to those who havent been before, certainly not an Exam, and not just boat handling but also introduce some of the unofficial/unwritten rules that many already know, im thinking running engines on moorings, stop n assist those in need, and crucially the many safety issues that can arise. That Dvd idea sounded good too.
And personally I have no offshore skills, mainly because I have never been offshore in anything smaller than a RoRo ferry, I also have little experience of Yarmouth and the southern rivers etc but I shall take all the advice and read up on as much as I can before I eventually do make the trip.
Mistakes are a fact of life, I have made some right howlers(snapped dads vhf aerial off under Acle bridge to name but one ) but sometimes a bit of knowlege can make the difference.


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[ranworthbreeze]

52 minutes ago, Islander said:

High tide and strong offshore wind at Cantley. I don't want to talk about it....yet.

A DVD sent showing the basics and a bit more I.e. Some of the mistakes made on YouTube, would cost pence to send to each hirer by Richardsons or HB's. Maybe the BHF could produce this for all hire companies?

Colin

p.s. Still not been told what time this happened.

 

Hello Colin,

There were a few videos on the Richardson's website introduction, technics including mooring and lines etc. Check out their first timer information.

 http://www.richardsonsboatingholidays.co.uk/first-timers/

Regards

Alan

[Islander]

Hi Alan, I have not looked at Richardsons site but I'm pleased that they are trying their best. Having never been a hirer but always had use of boats on the broads all my instruction has come from family and friends. Having started at 10yrs and now 50+ years on I can still get it wrong. Any instruction is worth every minute. Having said that,' You can lead a horse to water.....'

Colin

[ranworthbreeze]

4 minutes ago, Islander said:

Hi Alan, I have not looked at Richardsons site but I'm pleased that they are trying their best. Having never been a hirer but always had use of boats on the broads all my instruction has come from family and friends. Having started at 10yrs and now 50+ years on I can still get it wrong. Any instruction is worth every minute. Having said that,' You can lead a horse to water.....'

Colin

Agreed Colin,

As a forum we see many new members that are very keen to get all the advice freely given by older members of the boating community, they ask about planning a route, where to visit, what are the does and don'ts  of boating, sadly there are others that are new to it all and steam ahead knowing it all, will not take any advice and subsequently loose out on the delights of the Broads.

As you rightly say "You can lead a horse to water"

Regards

Alan

[Wussername]

4 hours ago, WherryNice said:

Well I'm pleased that we passed Triage in that case Vaughan
Btw my E-learning idea wasnt meant to be anything heavy, more of a vehicle to introduce general boating knowlege/ethos to those who havent been before, certainly not an Exam, and not just boat handling but also introduce some of the unofficial/unwritten rules that many already know, im thinking running engines on moorings, stop n assist those in need, and crucially the many safety issues that can arise. That Dvd idea sounded good too.
And personally I have no offshore skills, mainly because I have never been offshore in anything smaller than a RoRo ferry, I also have little experience of Yarmouth and the southern rivers etc but I shall take all the advice and read up on as much as I can before I eventually do make the trip.
Mistakes are a fact of life, I have made some right howlers(snapped dads vhf aerial off under Acle bridge to name but one ) but sometimes a bit of knowlege can make the difference.


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I liked your post. It demonstrates a sincerity which I appreciate and I hope that others do as well. Go south. It is a magical place. But you have to explore it to its fullest extent. Otherwise you will never know..

[BrundallNavy]

We were moored at Reedham last week when a large central cockpit boat decided to leave. The tide was flowing out the direction he was facing he had two attempts but was worried that he would hit the boat in front. I asked if he needed a hand and he greatfully accepted after a bit of advice executed a purfect departure thanking me for the help stating he never had been shown that manoeuvre. 

[WherryNice]

Thanks Wussername, I have been coming to the Broads in one way or another since I was very little(I'm 35 now) but I missed the holiday that my family took in the late 70's where, owing to constant rain, they got around pretty much everywhere and decided that they liked the north side the best.....
However I intend to get around all of it at some time or another:)

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[NeilB]

23 hours ago, Vaughan said:

Staff holidays are not a privilege : they are an essential part of staff training.

We were free to take holidays out of season too.  The only problem was discovering someone had wired the shower float switch to a horn or hidden an alarm clock in the bilges set for 3 am.  We always took some tools with us !!

As for trial runs I had the same training as Vaughan, spend a few weeks following others and then for my first few runs I was shadowed by someone more experienced to ensure I was OK.  I suspect the majority of hire firms work this way.  I have noticed my old firm now train all relevant staff to RYA Inland Waters Helmsman standard, they also make the skippers handbook available online so it can be studied before the customer arrives which is a good idea.

 

[Maxwellian]

I have seen experience people make mistakes, Cantley has been mentioned and Stokesby is another one that can catch you out. There has been talk about certification and training previously but it probably comes down to money. High entry criteria will put lotsaf people off against this low entry criteria means boats will get damaged the yards will or should take this all into consideration. This is easier for the bigger yards as with a high throughput each boat paying the amage waiver covers the cost. Smaller reds wil probably. Struggle with damage as it takes a boatout of circulation and costs are high as proportion against incsome. I know of one small yard who reduced their number of boats and focussed on experienced return business as people were not asking care the plastic ones.

you can never cover all eventualities, especially ethereal numpties are concerned.

[ScrumpyCheddar]

This was the damage... luckily it wasn't more or worse....

[LondonRascal]

The problem with it being left like that is the rain and general moisture will get into the laminate where it never should under the gel coat and then you've got a world of problems to deal with. I am surprised they have not just whacked on some white paint right after getting the boat back to the yard to seal the wound so to speak until they can make a proper repair, which seems thankfully is just some new gel coat.

[BrundallNavy]

8 hours ago, LondonRascal said:

The problem with it being left like that is the rain and general moisture will get into the laminate where it never should under the gel coat and then you've got a world of problems to deal with. I am surprised they have not just whacked on some white paint right after getting the boat back to the yard to seal the wound so to speak until they can make a proper repair, which seems thankfully is just some new gel coat.

Paint can also cause lots of problems as you won't get it all off before you regel the area.

[Snowy]

I for one have always treated boats I've hired like they are my own, and taken great care leaving it as we find it, even to the point of returning one once at Herbert  Woods and while loading the car we over heard a cleaner ask her supervision has this one already been cleaned. We felt very proud of that 

[MauriceMynah]

I too treated hire craft as if they were my own.

I also crunch my own boat. :(