Independence - Updates | Maintenance & Care

[grendel]

1 hour ago, Bound2Please said:

a lifetime ago when I worked on the railways they had extinguishers that were green in colour, when let off even if pointed away from a fire the gas turned headed for the fire and extinguished fire. I saw a demo of a diesel fire that was well going put out with a small one. They were withdrawn as the do gooders said the gas was harmful to the ozone layer. I think it was called something like pyrene in them.

that would have been halon, nasty stuff - removes all the oxygen from the room, even the stuff you want to breath. very harmful to the ozone layer.

[FairTmiddlin]

I remember having to go on a fire course at Wymondham as part of a gas safety inspectors course because we sold Propane and Butane cylinders.

The watch cheif took us through the various extinguishers. When he got to the halon he sort of ummed and ahhhed and said, safest and easiest way to use this one, is to remove the pin open the door slightly and throw the extinguisher in and run like hell.

And the easiest way to put out a fire coming from a Propane bottle is?

 

[grendel]

1 hour ago, TheQ said:

Pyrene was the name of the fire extinguisher company, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pyrene_Company_Limited

Green, Fire extinguishers generally contained BCF, Bromochlorodifluoromethane..  (carbon tetrafluride if you go back that far)

Blue, Dry powder,

Black, CO2

Cream, Foam

Red, Water.

 Now they've changed the rules again, all fire extinguishers are  Red, but with a coloured label to say what's  inside.

if you are buying an extinguisher I'd go for Blue  that just about covers everything

 

Blue does cover everything- but so does the powder it contains - it leaves a right mess.

[LondonRascal]

Sooner than planned...

Here is the first leg from Plymouth to Weymouth:

 

[grendel]

54 minutes ago, Jayfire said:

Sorry Grendel I can't seem to see what the actual question was, did Robin ask something?

yes Jay -

2 hours ago, LondonRascal said:

I wonder if you can have Foam and CO2 extinguishers and not just dry powder? If so, I would get a commercial sized version and strap it somewhere as a 'proper' extinguisher capable of actually doing something for longer.

my answer was that it has to be the correct type for the fires expected, I was hoping for some elucidation - which you provided in a general way

[Meantime]

11 minutes ago, grendel said:

Blue does cover everything- but so does the powder it contains - it leaves a right mess.

A BSS oddity, the minimum requirements are specified for class A and B fires, there is no mention of class C (flammable gases) Since LPG if fitted is part of the BSS test then why not minimum requirements for class C extinguisher. Dry power is the only one that would cover Classes ABC.

[grendel]

the other option of course (where space is not an issue) is to have several in different types, at work  we have CO2 for electrical fires (computers on every desk) and water for other types of fire (wastebins etc) 

[Meantime]

Just now, grendel said:

the other option of course (where space is not an issue) is to have several in different types, at work  we have CO2 for electrical fires (computers on every desk) and water for other types of fire (wastebins etc) 

Unfortunately the BSS prohibits that, I guess on the basis the user has to make a decision and have knowledge of correct type for fire etc. It states that the extinguisher must have a minimum rating of 5A/34B which for instance would mean you couldn't have CO2 on board as that is only suitable for class B and E.

[grendel]

how about the engine room fire control system mentioned above, that was CO2, as I believe is Independences, also your powder extinguisher may put out an electrical fire, but it does not stop the heat so the fire may re-ignite.

[Meantime]

3 minutes ago, grendel said:

how about the engine room fire control system mentioned above, that was CO2, as I believe is Independences, also your powder extinguisher may put out an electrical fire, but it does not stop the heat so the fire may re-ignite.

The BSS only covers portable extinguishers which must meet the minimum 5A/34B rating. It doesn't appear to cover fixed engine bay systems, other than a BSS examiner would advise of the illegality of halon if present.

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, grendel said:

yes Jay -

my answer was that it has to be the correct type for the fires expected, I was hoping for some elucidation - which you provided in a general way

Sorry, found it now thanks.

2 hours ago, LondonRascal said:

I wonder if you can have Foam and CO2 extinguishers and not just dry powder? If so, I would get a commercial sized version and strap it somewhere as a 'proper' extinguisher capable of actually doing something for longer.

Robin, I think I understand what you are meaning (possibly not) but the point of an extinguisher is to enable an exit from the affected area, not necessarily put it out.

Any reasonable fire is way beyond the capabilities of any extinguisher and whilst I know you are an intellegent guy and you may even have been on some fire related courses leading you to think you are aware of how to deal with a fire, installing what you class as a 'proper' extinguisher to do something for longer is putting yourself in exceptional danger.

If you really want something to do more than help clear your egress, you need to be thinking of a fixed installation not something you physically need to operate.

I apologise if I have misinterpreted your idea.

[grendel]

I think I see where Robin is coming from - in a sea boat, retreat from the fire may not be an option (other than deploying the rib or the life raft) so tackling the source may seem to be a more prudent course of action, considering the electrics systems on board, I would have thought a CO2 extinguisher a prudent option, but as EastcoastIPA says that would fail the BSS.

I too would caution Robin to attend some fire safety training where they let you try out various types of extinguisher. as a fire marshall I had to do this, and the number of people who just could not consider stepping close enough to the fire to effectively use the extinguisher or dropped a CO2 because of the sudden noise would alarm you (or holding the nozzle when it gets cold) (and not just the ladies on the course I was on)

[quo vadis]

(or holding the nozzle when it gets cold) (and not just the ladies on the course I was on)

 

[Jonathan]

I agree!  Add to that that many extinguishers are almost useless against a fire that has already got a hold and as Jayfire has already said, they can really only help you to get to the exit.

I suspect that what Robin has in mind is a fixed engine room installation.  He has the ability to close the external vents remotely and if he could then "flood" the close engine room to suppress a fire it might be effective if the extinguisher is big enough (he said "commercial sized version ").

On a slight tangent.  My experience with "dry powder" extinguishers is that they are effective at stopping a petrol fire, but the powder is quite corrosive, and damages electrical installations.

[Guest]

4 words that enough to cover it " read the BSS legislation " .

See simple , end of problem ! .

Incidentally does the fact that fire extinguisher's  are on the shopping list mean that there weren't any onboard other than the fixed engine room ones ? .

[socrates]

Whilst the required number and type of extinguisher will satisfy a Boat Safety inspector, I would reiterate what people are saying about them only being suitable for hastening one's escape. In anything but the smallest of fires, evacuation is best and probably only option. Get out, shut the doors/hatches, call for help and stay out! The smoke is likely to get you before you can put the fire out. Whilst you may love your boat, your life and that of your crew mates is far more important.

Even fixed fire fighting equipment such as halon, argon, CO2 etc are simply a means for you to delay the distinct possibility of abandoning your vessel. You are on a big boat but by no means big enough to survive anything other than a relatively sized fire. Any fire in your engine room also carries a distinct risk of explosion, not to mention radiated heat throughout the boat to other areas of combustion. Just think of all the various combustibles you have on a boat .Perhaps surprisingly, heat travels through cables and starts fires in other areas of the boat, before you know it you have fires in other places. And, whilst this is happening the boat is rapidly filling up with deadly noxious smoke 

By the way, I speak from personal experience!

 

 

[Meg]

On a real tangent my fire training ref chip pans did not say how long to leave the wet towel over it! I am now recognizable by my lack of eyebrows, lost as I peeped under the towel to see what was happening.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Meg said:

On a real tangent my fire training ref chip pans did not say how long to leave the wet towel over it! I am now recognizable by my lack of eyebrows, lost as I peeped under the towel to see what was happening.

Damp, but that is outdated advice not given now. 

Just leave it alone, shut the door and get out. Bit late for your eyebrows I'm afraid. 

Right I'm done, I promise

[keifsmate]

Interesting vid Robin. Thank you. Irritating "Fizz" on the laptop speaker which dissappears if you press in a certain area. cured by plugging in a set of earphones! Engines sound lovely.

[johnm]

Robin,

Thanks for the update. Great fun working out where in my old stamping ground you were!

Just one small point, did no-one else notice the keys being in the "wrong" holes?  Would've played havoc with my OCD seeing that all day

[scaniaman]

oooooooooooohh lovely diesels,what a boat,what a beast oooooooooooohh

[ExSurveyor]

Great quality video Robin,  stunning scenery. I am officially jealous

[SwanR]

Thoroughly enjoyed the video Robin. So interesting to see the views of the coastline from the sea.

[LondonRascal]

Just a note on extinguishers: I have two fire blankets in the Galley and 4 powder fire extinguishers in the accommodation areas but I think it would be nice to have one in the saloon, and area between the forward and twin cabin. I have fitted two smoke alarms and a CO alarm.

I have been on a boat when it began to spew smoke out from under the floor - and at the time I did not know what was causing it but smelt electrical, my first instinct was not fire extinguisher but turn on the camera and then get the boat moored up and find out what was causing it, all was ok then but if it had suddenly ignited I dont think I would have just let it burn without giving things at least a go at putting out the fire I like to think that while that was going on you would have the sense to know when enough was enough.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, LondonRascal said:

Just a note on extinguishers: I have two fire blankets in the Galley and 4 powder fire extinguishers in the accommodation areas but I think it would be nice to have one in the saloon, and area between the forward and twin cabin. I have fitted two smoke alarms and a CO alarm.

I have been on a boat when it began to spew smoke out from under the floor - and at the time I did not know what was causing it but smelt electrical, my first instinct was not fire extinguisher but turn on the camera and then get the boat moored up and find out what was causing it, all was ok then but if it had suddenly ignited I dont think I would have just let it burn without giving things at least a go at putting out the fire I like to think that while that was going on you would have the sense to know when enough was enough.

Sorry robin, unfortunately, I really can tell you that you are incorrect there.