A Plea From Dr Packman Of The Broads Authority

[MauriceMynah]

I too doubt he will relent, but also doubt he will succeed. but will his successor succeed?

[ranworthbreeze]

11 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

I too doubt he will relent, but also doubt he will succeed. but will his successor succeed?

Hi John,

That is indeed the question many will be thinking about, the devil we all know about but new blood will have its own agenda.

Regards

Alan

[JennyMorgan]

 A few years ago a call went out suggesting to the Navigation Committee that the time had come for Dr P to move on. Nothing came of it because it was thought preferable to retain the devil that we knew rather than engage the one that we didn't. No question that much good has been achieved over the last ten years so perhaps the pluses have made up for a lot of the minuses. Obviously I don't know the answer, however the devil we don't know might turn out to be an absolute godsend. 

[Vaughan]

Very wise words from MM.

I would just like to add something about marketing other countries, from my own experience.

The hire boat business is all about attracting regular customers and look at how many members of this forum are exactly that!

The problem with attracting the Australians, the Canadians or even the Russians is that they have money to spare but they will only travel all that way once, probably doing the Broads for a week, then London, then Paris, etc. This is the Disneyworld Florida syndrome. Once you have taken your kids there once, you cross it off your bucket list but you don't come back.

The best customers from other countries (by far) are the Germans, since they can't hire boats on their own waterways without a skipper's ticket. Then come the Scandinavians especially the Danish. The Swiss are excellent customers who are by far the best at looking after the boats but we already have those, since Fred Soler's agency introduced them to the Broads in the late 60's. It was their arrival by chartered aircraft on a Thursday, which first took the business away from Saturday only departures.

So I think although there is a good supplementary market to be had abroad, the Broads should still concentrate on its core business from the British Isles. In which case, giving an impression of a National Park may be a good marketing ploy.

As we all know, once you have got them on the Broads once, you have usually got them for life!

[finny]

6 hours ago, TheQ said:

Unfortunately if you see a lot of what BA are pushing, it's canoes , and their RA Electric boat round Whitlingham gravel pit. All "Eco" type tourism Not us nasty boats leaving a trail of diesel ...

I truly believe The Q has hit the nail on the head the fossil fuel combustion engine is on its way out -,the congestion tax in inner cities that's being widely adopted has got that eco mind set rolling to a greener future and i fear someday it will apply to our inland waterways 

personally I believe that the seed has been sown and it's all a case time to let things fall in place .in the grand scheme of things 20 to 30 years is not really a long time 

finny

[NeilB]

50 minutes ago, finny said:

personally I believe that the seed has been sown and it's all a case time to let things fall in place .in the grand scheme of things 20 to 30 years is not really a long time 

finny

The infrastructure will need to be updated but I think electrification will really start taking off in a couple of years.  

[Guest]

Updating again , and yes thinking about the fact that only one outlet is capable of charging a large capacity ( battery wise ) boat in a reasonable length of time I guess it will need a major upgrade .

[finny]

1 minute ago, NeilB said:

The infrastructure will need to be updated but I think electrification will really start taking off in a couple of years.  

I think you are right but at what price ? I fear it will price many out of boating ownership and as far as the broads are concerned from a boating perspective we are seeing losses in facilities like public moorings - how much of the river banks are at 45 degrees to encourage reed growth - another loss wild mooring .even public bin sheds are less . 

the seed has been sown 

finny

[marshman]

Finny- not sure why it affects you but I find I can moor on those new banks in a "normal" Broads cruiser without any difficulty - and indeed do.

The trouble is, I think, unlike years ago, the majority of users seem nervous about doing so. Way way back in the 70's / 80's when there were so many hire cruisers about, they had to make and use those wild moorings - look at the Ant today they are slowly coming back, but all Fleet Dyke needs is a brush cutter to open a few slots.

But people now prefer, or seemingly do, the more formalised mooring.  They don't even like mud weighting - now I am often one of only a handful mud weighting overnight on places like South Walsham and or Black Horse

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, marshman said:

Finny- not sure why it affects you but I find I can moor on those new banks in a "normal" Broads cruiser without any difficulty - and indeed do.

The trouble is, I think, unlike years ago, the majority of users seem nervous about doing so. Way way back in the 70's / 80's when there were so many hire cruisers about, they had to make and use those wild moorings - look at the Ant today they are slowly coming back, but all Fleet Dyke needs is a brush cutter to open a few slots.

But people now prefer, or seemingly do, the more formalised mooring.  They don't even like mud weighting - now I am often one of only a handful mud weighting overnight on places like South Walsham and or Black Horse

I can see what Finny is driving at here , sure its OK and suitable for some it depends if you have family ie children , dogs etc to get off it can be extremely difficult , more so though it depends on where you are on the system a 45% incline will rule out a lot of the southern rivers given the difference in tide heights compared to the northern rivers , I for instance have to find a mooring that I can get team dog off though that said after that we often mud weight .

Its as usual horse's for courses , some need a quay heading mooring others don't .

[quo vadis]

For once I have to disagree with you there Marsh, my boat (not a broads boat) cannot more there for the following reasons

1 I cannot get off the boat as its too high and too far away from the bank

2 the outdrive nearest the bank will foul and or cause damage

3 the boat will settle at a very uncomfortable angle as the tide falls possibly causing flooding

just my observations

 

[JennyMorgan]

Quo, in years of old boats were supplied with gang planks, maybe worth considering.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Quo, in years of old boats were supplied with gang planks, maybe worth considering.

Yep they were n you could get some nice shiny pole and plank fittings as per a narrow boat  , grab ya scaffold batten while you can ,  oh and hope its still there when you come to get back on board 

[quo vadis]

47 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Quo, in years of old boats were supplied with gang planks, maybe worth considering.

JM are you suggesting I remove the inboard outdrive and carry it ashore via the gangplank 

[JennyMorgan]

17 minutes ago, quo vadis said:

JM are you suggesting I remove the inboard outdrive and carry it ashore via the gangplank 

You could, or you use mooring poles to hold you away from the bank, just like gang planks, how it was done in years gone by.

[quo vadis]

26 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

You could, or you use mooring poles to hold you away from the bank, just like gang planks, how it was done in years gone by.

Good idea JM you got any old sticks I could use 

[Baggywrinkle]

On ‎09‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 19:23, marshman said:

Finny- not sure why it affects you but I find I can moor on those new banks in a "normal" Broads cruiser without any difficulty - and indeed do.

The trouble is, I think, unlike years ago, the majority of users seem nervous about doing so. Way way back in the 70's / 80's when there were so many hire cruisers about, they had to make and use those wild moorings - look at the Ant today they are slowly coming back, but all Fleet Dyke needs is a brush cutter to open a few slots.

But people now prefer, or seemingly do, the more formalised mooring.  They don't even like mud weighting - now I am often one of only a handful mud weighting overnight on places like South Walsham and or Black Horse

I'm with you, Marshman. Mud weight or "wild mooring" for me. Apart from W Somerton, or the "Quiet mooring" at PH in order to catch an early low tide to get through the bridge next morning, I've not spent a night on a "formal mooring" for years.

 

[JohnK]

As it was getting a bit too quiet on the subject ....

I came across this by accident on the BA website.

http://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/news-and-publications/frequently-asked-questions

If you believe what the BA say that states the case quite clearly doesn’t it? I know some of you don’t trust the BA based on history. Is that what this debate comes down to?


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[vanessan]

26 minutes ago, JohnK said:

As it was getting a bit too quiet on the subject ....

I came across this by accident on the BA website.

http://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/news-and-publications/frequently-asked-questions

If you believe what the BA say that states the case quite clearly doesn’t it? I know some of you don’t trust the BA based on history. Is that what this debate comes down to?


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Light blue touch paper and retire immediately..............................

[grendel]

It is quite clear. 

However there is one omission from the whole document - nowhere does it give the full text of the judgement, the rider or tag on the end - 'for marketing purposes only'.

Would this be why the term National Park has been appearing on legal documentation (which can hardly be classed as marketing) it is little omissions like this in the documentation I think that causes people to worry about the Broads Authority's future plans and motives.

Deception by omission can change the entire meaning of a statement on its head, while telling the truth (well part of it), it gives the opposite impression to the reader than the reality.

for example suppose I were to say 'I have no black cats', you would assume that all my cats were tabbys or ginger- or some such, but no, in actuality they are all black and white, so my statement is factual, but gives entirely the opposite perception to the reader. 

or for another example, if I said  'I dont have a river toll' to a ranger, it is factually correct, and would have the Broads Authority just itching to get me to court for unpaid tolls - but before you go and report me, I dont have a boat either, so a river toll would be pointless.

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, grendel said:

It is quite clear. 

However there is one omission from the whole document - nowhere does it give the full text of the judgement, the rider or tag on the end - 'for marketing purposes only'.

Would this be why the term National Park has been appearing on legal documentation (which can hardly be classed as marketing) it is little omissions like this in the documentation I think that causes people to worry about the Broads Authority's future plans and motives.

Deception by omission can change the entire meaning of a statement on its head, while telling the truth (well part of it), it gives the opposite impression to the reader than the reality.

for example suppose I were to say 'I have no black cats', you would assume that all my cats were tabbys or ginger- or some such, but no, in actuality they are all black and white, so my statement is factual, but gives entirely the opposite perception to the reader. 

or for another example, if I said  'I dont have a river toll' to a ranger, it is factually correct, and would have the Broads Authority just itching to get me to court for unpaid tolls - but before you go and report me, I dont have a boat either, so a river toll would be pointless.

Maybe you don't have any cats: the statement is still factually correct. 

[batrabill]

It all hinges on the question if you believe what the Broads Authority say.

If you believe nothing then that simply makes debate redundant. 

Talking to an employee of the BA, he/she said "Literally no one at the BA wants The Broads to be a full National Park."

But, maybe they are just lying.....

[MauriceMynah]

Do we take what people say, or do we take what we believe those people mean? Take the statement above from Bill's post. Do we take the word "literally" literally? If we do, that would include the Dr, and that we do not believe. However, word play like that can be used (and is often used) to imply one thing certain in the knowledge that the words actually mean something else.

I for one can say with hand on heart that I don't believe the good doctor has no ambition to see the Broads National Park used for marketing alone. but then again I ain't got no idea. Believe me.  

[JohnK]

for example suppose I were to say 'I have no black cats', you would assume that all my cats were tabbys or ginger- or some such,

 

Actually, I’d assume you have no black cats

 

 

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[JennyMorgan]

We don't, regretfully, do links to other Broads related forums but there is a news related FaceBook page out there where a gentleman with obvious legal expertise has posted relevant copies of government rulings, BA publications/press releases/officer reports/agenda and minutes and the like. Interesting and revealing reading and all of which makes the legal case abundantly clear. In a nutshell it makes the Authority's justification of itself and it's self awarded NP accreditation to be, I'll be generous, highly questionable.