Worrying About Our Holiday... Advice Sought

[SwanR]

I would honestly say that if you've done the northern rivers already, and are hiring on the south, then give the south a go. We had our first hire on the south in the days before I ever read online forums. It was wonderful. And my only reason for having stayed north more recently has been the fact that Swancraft closed their hire business as most folk here know.

I've done the north in October a number of times and the water levels have often been high for various reasons. We have found that it can be touch and go whether you will get through Ludham Bridge with even an air draft of 8'4.

This is an old video of mine, and it's just photos, but you can see how lovely the southern rivers can be. With a cruiser that gives you luxury for two I would say it's well worth a go. Maybe once you get on that boat and see how beautiful the Waveney is you will change your mind.

 

[Broads01]

The south is indeed lovely but going across Breydon and navigating Great Yarmouth is fun (not the waste of holiday time some would have you believe) so if you want to go north then enjoy it. 

[VetChugger]

That is an excellent video Helen, my only objection is that it is very lkely to ensure the South gets busier. They can wait until I have been and gone please!

[YnysMon]

Errr...you mean excellent video Jean! I’m a lazy whatsit and haven’t yet got around to putting together lovely vlogs like the ones that Jean has posted.

[grendel]

the only reason i didnt head south during the past 10 days aboard, is that in a weeks time I will be back aboard Water Rail, on the southern rivers for a week, thus will get my southern cruising done then. the trip between the two can be boring, its a long slog down the bure to get to Breydon, with not a lot of scenery to see from a low helm position, but you need to do it if you want to get to the other end, if you are not lucky like me to have a boat based south.

[SwanR]

We still haven’t done Breydon. I’m inclined to think that if we ever do then we will want to hire for 10 or11 days rather than a week. Apart from the debate as to cruising the lower Bure and what that’s like, if I go south I don’t want to only be there for a couple of days and then cross back. So I’m still more likely to stay whichever side we hire on. 

[YnysMon]

I know a lot of people feel the slog down to Breydon water is rather monotonous, but there’s something about the lower reaches of the rivers that I like. I’m not sure why, but they have a different feel to them.

[Lulu]

22 minutes ago, YnysMon said:

I know a lot of people feel the slog down to Breydon water is rather monotonous, but there’s something about the lower reaches of the rivers that I like. I’m not sure why, but they have a different feel to them.

Its one of my favourite stretches of river but then i guess it helps that with our boat, if i sit on my ‘perch’ I can see over the reeds. 

[BroadAmbition]

We 'Do' Breydon and one of the southern rivers each year on the Lads Week, we hire from H.W's and take 'B.A' of course.  Whichever southern river we are on we get to the head of navigation too, be it Geldeston or Norwich.  We never seem to be in any sort of rush but then again there are six helmsmen on each craft so plenty of sharing it about (Wotch it you lot!)

Going South next week for five days or so too

Griff

[Smoggy]

I'm out and about for a week as of this afternoon, about sodding time as it's the first time I've had this year apart from weekends/bank holidays.

[grendel]

usually its a case of, I need the bathroom, just hang on to the steering for a minute will you, three hours later...

[YnysMon]

Well you can’t do that whilst solo helming!

[grendel]

no i have a suitable container for that eventuality, or just lots of comfort stops.

[John617]

Doing my research having recently booked for October half term, so a couple of weeks after this thread is referring to. Passage North South more of an issue due to daylight particularly getting back later in week. However with a boat with 6’10” height, what is the issue with going nearer to high water. OK its going to be slow for a bit,  might feel a bit scary (Although I don’t know how fast the stream runs) and if the weather was bad the wind against tide might be an issue.  What am I missing, if you read anything it is like you will die if you get the times wrong. Although it doesn’t help me, why not aim for high water slack to get through Yarmouth if you are less than 7 feet.

[DAVIDH]

John, you won't die if you get it wrong, especially not in a boat with 6' 10" air draft. The thing to be aware of is especially high tides, which can reduce the headroom to the point you can't get under the Yarmouth bridges. The easy way around that is to call the Yacht Station staff, who will ask you the name of the boat, and give you advice as to when there is enough headroom. 

I've always traversed Yarmouth in boats with or about that headroom, and as you have guessed, its only in the hours around high water that you might be restricted. That leaves lots of other hours to use. Many on here will advise avoiding travel against the tide, as it slows you down, and costs more in fuel. I think that's good advice if you have your own boat, or are visiting the Broads regularly. I was a holidaymaker with just one holiday a year, and I know you can't always wait around for the best conditions when you have a finite number of days left, and won't be returning for another 12 months. Under those circumstances, you have to balance the extra cost and time involved, against not being where you want to be. The boat will be capable of making way (perhaps slowly) in an adverse tide, so I'd say go for it, after having first sought the advice of the Yarmouth Yacht Station staff, that there will be sufficient headroom when you arrive.

[Oddfellow]

Punching the tide at Yarmouth is never a good idea for an inexperienced boat owner or hirer. 

Making the engine do more work than is necessary will increase fuel consumption and produce more heat. If your engine overheats whilst doing this, guess what happens? It stops. Sometimes irrevocably. Then you're at the mercy of mother nature who doesn't give a stuff about where you turn the rudder, she'll put you wherever she wants. Let me assure anybody that having zero control on Breydon water on a fast current is scary stuff that I would not recommend to anybody. 

[Smoggy]

Around high water (especially about an hour after) the tide will go slack just as it does at low water, and the flood tide is generally weaker than the ebb so with good timing you should be able to avoid the strongest tidal flows, half tide is the worst time to run against tides as they are strongest.

Running against the tide you will have more steering control than some of the things you see bobbing sideways towards the yarmouth bridges with the tide taking them as they try to keep the speed down, most boats should be able to push against the tide just won't get anywhere fast, and if headroom is low you are better going under a bridge against the tide as you can stop far quicker by dropping the throttle, the other way round (with the tide up your bum) you just career under a bit slower instead of stopping, might use less fuel but can use more toilet roll.....

Remember the bure runs out for about an hour longer than the yare, I assume the opposite is true at high water.

[750XL]

Very interesting and informative posts, thanks for sharing your inputs.

Just out of curiosity (and preparedness for our crossing in October). Should the worse happen and sh!t hits the fan, and the big spinny thing below the water line decides to stop in the middle of Breydon, what's the best course of action?

Lob the mudweight over, pay out all the line, and call 999 asking for coastguard? 

[Smoggy]

That pretty much sums it up, just remember to tie off the mudweight rope before chucking it in, on a running tide a mudweight might slow you but don't expect it to stop you.

[marshman]

Read the post carefully from Freedom and Andy! He knows what he is talking about! 

More importantly take note of what he says - at that time of year the weather can be much more harsh than on benign summer days and its not uncommon these days for Breydon to be closed to hire boats in windy conditions. 

And it is not just a question of "lobbing" the mudweight over - do that at high water and in more than a breeze, you could easily be blown a mile across the mud flats right up against the sea wall and  even hole the boat! Thats very unlikely but it could happen and the consequences of that involve life! As a skipper you are responsible and you must make real decisions - whilst Breydon is easy in normal summer conditions, its not always normal, especially out of season and with a more limited daylight window. Inland waters are categorised and its not categorised at a higher level for no reason - its your choice but I wouldn't do it a high tide in the winter months unless I had to and unless the weather the weather was settled and the forecast was good. 

David H has said you won't die - its unlikely but never say that about the sea - I bet he has never been across in a proper S/W blow with wind over tide!!! Never trifle with the sea and Breydon in those conditions can seem like it for a good hour or more!!

[750XL]

13 minutes ago, marshman said:

And it is not just a question of "lobbing" the mudweight over - do that at high water and in more than a breeze, you could easily be blown a mile across the mud flats right up against the sea wall and  even hole the boat!

Indeed personally I won't be crossing Breydon at anything other than slack water (not that I have a choice, I don't know what Waveney Pegasus' air draft is but I assume 8' 6" ish). My post about lobbing the mudweight was more a, what should I do if an emergency arises - ie the engine conks out for whatever reason. I know the mudweight probably wouldn't hold, but suppose it's better than nothing when you're at mercy of the water awaiting rescue 

[BrundallNavy]

18 minutes ago, 750XL said:

Indeed personally I won't be crossing Breydon at anything other than slack water (not that I have a choice, I don't know what Waveney Pegasus' air draft is but I assume 8' 6" ish). 

I would think you need low water rather than slack water as we had 8 ft at slack last week. 

[750XL]

Sorry, I did mean low water. My apologies 

[John617]

Many thanks for taking the time to add the useful comments on crossing Breydon outside low water. I have been on the broads before 12 times, but 11 times were before I was 12 and I am 54. I can drive a boat though. 

My question relates to if you want to go to the south and its impossible to make the tide due to daylight late in season.

I still wonder whether the advice is a little strong and is based around my first 11 visits when reliability would not be the same.

You shouldn’t do it if you have no experience or if there is bad weather. Although the bad weather would probable cause discomfort (fear) as a 12 foot wide board might feel like its going to tip over, but it wont with the size of waves and the fact that for the waves to be big you would have to be travelling into them or with them.

The main issue is loss of power. So with a 35 foot boat with a hullspeed of just short of 8 miles an hour that is (I presume) limited to 6 mph what would particularly increase the likelihood of failure, it cannot be operating at full actual revs can it? Very big waves or blocked intake would be probable causes of overheating. I guess this does not happen often on a 2017 boat unlike a 1967 boat. 

Surely if you are sensible on weather and drive in a straight line its readily doable even though all advice says its not. It will of course be  very slow and inefficient for a while. 

[Oddfellow]

15 minutes ago, John617 said:

Many thanks for taking the time to add the useful comments on crossing Breydon outside low water. I have been on the broads before 12 times, but 11 times were before I was 12 and I am 54. I can drive a boat though. 

My question relates to if you want to go to the south and its impossible to make the tide due to daylight late in season.

I still wonder whether the advice is a little strong and is based around my first 11 visits when reliability would not be the same.

You shouldn’t do it if you have no experience or if there is bad weather. Although the bad weather would probable cause discomfort (fear) as a 12 foot wide board might feel like its going to tip over, but it wont with the size of waves and the fact that for the waves to be big you would have to be travelling into them or with them.

The main issue is loss of power. So with a 35 foot boat with a hullspeed of just short of 8 miles an hour that is (I presume) limited to 6 mph what would particularly increase the likelihood of failure, it cannot be operating at full actual revs can it? Very big waves or blocked intake would be probable causes of overheating. I guess this does not happen often on a 2017 boat unlike a 1967 boat. 

Surely if you are sensible on weather and drive in a straight line its readily doable even though all advice says its not. It will of course be  very slow and inefficient for a while. 

Let me assure you that the raw water cooling pumps installed in a modern engine are pretty-much identical to those installed in a older engine (which I favour for all of the reasons we favour older engineering generally, i.e. they were built to last). The heat exchangers are virtually unchanged too and the only noticeable upgrade on SOME (by no means all) systems is the installation of exhaust cooling alarms and these can be retrofitted anyway. 

I've had a modern cooling system overheat just yesterday when the system sucked up so much weed that the intake pipe blocked before it made it's way to the filter. Luckily, my daughter who is out on her first boating holiday without me was more than savvy enough to find and solve the problem herself. She wouldn't have been if I hadn't spent the last 11 years maintaining a fleet of boats.