Worrying About Our Holiday... Advice Sought

[YnysMon]

We went from south to north on a latish tide a while ago on an NBD boat. We ended up mooring on an emergency pontoon about a mile before Stracey Arms, it was getting very close to sunset and there was poor light.

Personally, I wouldn’t consider goIng through Great Yarmouth outside the normal Slack tide window, but then I tend to be cautious. We have found that half an hour to an hour after slack tide is ideal. Our problem about 18 months ago was due to us going through GY on the advised slack water time and then we found we were having to slog up the Bure against the tide that was still outgoing on a boat that struggled with higher revs. (We have been on another similar NBD boat that was fine with higher revs).

As far as I’m concerned, it’s not crossing Breydon that’s the issue, it’s when the tide is forcing itself up the narrower rivers. Our last couple of weeks on Moonlight Shadow were in November and February when the tides were not helpful, so we just resigned ourselves to staying down south. Is not as though that’s a hardship.

[Oddfellow]

17 minutes ago, YnysMon said:

We went from south to north on a latish tide a while ago on an NBD boat. We ended up mooring on an emergency pontoon about a mile before Stracey Arms, it was getting very close to sunset and there was poor light.

Personally, I wouldn’t consider goIng through Great Yarmouth outside the normal Slack tide window, but then I tend to be cautious. We have found that half an hour to an hour after slack tide is ideal. Our problem about 18 months ago was due to us going through GY on the advised slack water time and then we found we were having to slog up the Bure against the tide that was still outgoing on a boat that struggled with higher revs. (We have been on another similar NBD boat that was fine with higher revs).

As far as I’m concerned, it’s not crossing Breydon that’s the issue, it’s when the tide is forcing itself up the narrower rivers. Our last couple of weeks on Moonlight Shadow were in November and February when the tides were not helpful, so we just resigned ourselves to staying down south. Is not as though that’s a hardship.

There are many issues created by not knowing the state of play at the time. 

Let me recount my moving of the fleet from Horning to Thorpe.There were three of us. We each took two boats, lashed side by side, a convoy of six. 

It was December and it was early morning, just light when we set off from Horning. Our passage through yarmouth was timed to coincide with low-slack and cross Breydon on a rising tide. 

The plan was perfect.

Down the Bure, the flood banks are quite high. The journey was going fine. 

At Bure mouth, we instantly became aware that the flood banks has been sheltering us from a strong wind. 

It was a struggle to get headway upstream of Bure Mouth. The wind was blowing us on a starboard beam and it was strong. 

Then a forward rope snapped on Mark's boat leaving  the towed vessel scissoring away on the wind and creating more drag than Lilly Savage. Mark managed to lash the remainder together and attach to a stanchion rather than a cleat. Not ideal at the best of times. The wind was still pushing us sideways.

The stanchion really wasn't up to the job and began to work loose. We had to do something and quick as it was dry-cleaning time in the underwear department. 

I manoeuvred my two boats on the side of the two with poor connectivity and told my daughter who was just 12 or so to hold the boat (and it's dead-weight tow) dead steady alongside the other two vessels whilst i went out (with a life jacket) and lashed them to us. 

The journey across Breydon that day took about 2 hours. It was an experience that I never want to have to repeat. My daughter has quite vivid memories of it too. She played a blinder but has never been confident at the wheel since. Not sure how she's doing this week.....

 

 

 

[YnysMon]

Wow, that’s a cautionary tale and a half! 
I was very worried about our first crossing of Breydon as it had been pretty windy overnight. I struck lucky though. When we got onto Breydon the wind was behind us and working with the incoming tide, so it wasn’t even choppy. 

[marshman]

As Andy says, the **** hits the fan when the unexpected happens - its not what you can predict, but what you cannot predict. Some people consider a bumpy crossing fun but just say there was dirt residue in the tank and the bumping around stirred that sediment up? Could you cope? If you want an easier crossing hire in summer where the opportunity for inclement weather is less, and you have much longer daylight hours leaving your crossing window wider.

Despite some urging you to proceed, the advised time for crossings is low water slack - and I would stick to that for whats its worth unless the weather is very settled and you know what its going to be doing on your return. As Andy has hinted, their is very good reason for suggesting that time as the tide is running less swiftly and a swift running tide merely adds to any problem - howeever at the end of the day its your choice

And of course whatever time you cross, you and your crew should have life jackets on - plain sensible I am afraid.

 

[grendel]

best bet with early and late crossings is to get down to great yarmouth and moor up ready for an early start, or if coming the other way do the late crossing and immediately moor at great yarmouth ready to proceed up on the morning tide..

[YnysMon]

If doing a late crossing check with the Yacht Station that there are moorings available. That time we had to moor at the emergency mooring we had done that, but by the time we got to GY there wasn’t much space even though it was early in the season. I have belatedly realised that they used to allow double mooring, so I guess we could have done that. Double mooring isn’t currently allowed, so more cause to check out in advance.

[Wussername]

Well, it seems that we are in for a blow tomorrow(Friday). Gusty on Saturday. Calmer. Monday and Tuesday and then for Wednesday another windy day.

If you are hill walking any where in the UK you will find the experienced watch the weather, if you are mountaineering, watch the weather, driving a high sided vehicle such as a caravan, watch the weather, especially if you are planning a sea voyage round the coast watch the weather.

The Broads are no different. There is available in this modern day and age a raft of weather information available, for the now and for the future, more than at any other time. 

Indeed with modern communication you can telephone your preferred source of information be it Yarmouth Yacht Station, the Broads Authority, the Coast Guard. One could go on and on.

You don't have to feel a bit of sea weed. So many incidents are weather and tide related. There is really no excuse. Have a contingency plan no shame in waiting until the following day. Or wait a few hours.

Time and tide wait for no man, and neither does the weather.

 

[750XL]

Sorry to resurrect this post from the archives, but didn't think it was necessary to create a new topic.

We go down to the Broads in a few days for our week away, and can't wait. Understand water levels are high so we've (probably) scrapped the idea of getting an 8ft 6" (ish) air draft through Ludham Bridge up the River Ant, but we'd still like to go North if possible.

Can anyone advise whether the higher than normal water levels effect the bridges at Yarmouth too? Will we get an 8ft 6" under them at slack water? 

Thank you! 

[DAVIDH]

The answer to your question is almost certainly yes. The average high water headroom at Yarmouth Vauxhall bridge is 6ft 9inches. Given that there is a normal tidal drop of anything up to 6ft at low water, it is inconceivable that you wouldn't get under at slack. Even better, here is a digital report of the height under Yarmouth Vauxhall bridge, updated every few minutes. Check it at slack water time and you'll get a good indication.

https://broads.bridgeheight.com/

Edited to add that you click on the downward arrow on the "Please choose" line, then select Yarmouth Vauxhall.

 

[CambridgeCabby]

3 hours ago, 750XL said:

Sorry to resurrect this post from the archives, but didn't think it was necessary to create a new topic.

We go down to the Broads in a few days for our week away, and can't wait. Understand water levels are high so we've (probably) scrapped the idea of getting an 8ft 6" (ish) air draft through Ludham Bridge up the River Ant, but we'd still like to go North if possible.

Can anyone advise whether the higher than normal water levels effect the bridges at Yarmouth too? Will we get an 8ft 6" under them at slack water? 

Thank you! 

You would have got under Ludham today 

[grendel]

6 hours ago, DAVIDH said:

https://broads.bridgeheight.com/

Edited to add that you click on the downward arrow on the "Please choose" line, then select Yarmouth Vauxhall.

That looks to be a good resource.

[RS2021]

9 hours ago, DAVIDH said:

Even better, here is a digital report of the height under Yarmouth Vauxhall bridge, updated every few minutes. Check it at slack water time and you'll get a good indication.

https://broads.bridgeheight.com/

This website suggests they are going to cover all the bridges on the Broads 'coming soon'. Is this a new website, of have they been promising that for sometime?

[grendel]

I am wondering if this is one of Davids works in progress, if so, thank you David

[Smoggy]

35 minutes ago, RS2021 said:

This website suggests they are going to cover all the bridges on the Broads 'coming soon'. Is this a new website, of have they been promising that for sometime?

Now that is an interesting and very useful resource if accurate, does anyone know who is doing it?

[grendel]

i dont really know, but i have linked it on the bridge height page under handy information.

[DAVIDH]

1 hour ago, grendel said:

I am wondering if this is one of Davids works in progress, if so, thank you David

Much too clever for me Peter. I'm sure someone on here pointed it out about 18 months ago. I have looked at it occasionally over the intervening period, and it has operated throughout, but sadly does not seem to have been expanded. No idea who's site it is though. 

[NorfolkNog]

Wonder if it's one of Strowagers - Looks clever stuff 

[750XL]

9 hours ago, CambridgeCabby said:

You would have got under Ludham today 

Thank you all for the helpful replies as ever, much appreciated.
 

@CambridgeCabby, from what I saw on social media the heights haven't got above  7ft 6" ish. Was there really an extra ft (making it 8ft 6") today? If so, we're going to try and make it this weekend

[Mouldy]

1 hour ago, 750XL said:

Thank you all for the helpful replies as ever, much appreciated.
 

@CambridgeCabby, from what I saw on social media the heights haven't got above  7ft 6" ish. Was there really an extra ft (making it 8ft 6") today? If so, we're going to try and make it this weekend

If you’re heading north anyway, it’s only a few minutes cruise up The Ant to the bridge.  You might as well have a look and see.  The height marker heading from The Bure is about 6 inches on the pessimistic side, so if it shows 8ft, there is actually 8’6”.  If in doubt, ask George at Ludham Bridge Boatyard.  He is very helpful and will give you guidance.  
As long as the weather stays relatively dry and the winds don’t pick up, the river levels should start to drop anyway.
Have a good trip and enjoy it.

[750XL]

Well, we survived our week afloat and despite worrying about the swing bridges and Breydon, that turned out to be the easiest bit of the holiday and we comfortably made it through Yarmouth in both directions. As we headed South, the boys on Broad Ambition passed us underneath Vauxhall bridge heading North. Thanks for all the kind advice given on the forum to assist with our holiday.

Didn't make it under Ludham as the waters were still high, and although the boat was 8ft 4inches the've stuck a TV antenna on the roof making it almost 9ft

Unfortunately we came home feeling a bit disappointed after numerous issues with the boat but it's only fair I wait for a reply from WRC before posting a full boat review. 

 

[CambridgeCabby]

Sorry to hear you had problems with the boat , but hope it hasn’t put you off the beautiful Norfolk (and Suffolk) Broads and you will return again soon .

[750XL]

4 hours ago, CambridgeCabby said:

Sorry to hear you had problems with the boat , but hope it hasn’t put you off the beautiful Norfolk (and Suffolk) Broads and you will return again soon .

We’ll certainly be back in the near future, but next time I think we’ll be very wary of booking a boat that doesn’t have gas for cooking (or one with better reviews!).

[CambridgeCabby]

5 minutes ago, 750XL said:

We’ll certainly be back in the near future, but next time I think we’ll be very wary of booking a boat that doesn’t have gas for cooking (or one with better reviews!).

I’m a great believer in “if it isn’t broken don’t try and fix it” , at least 90% of the hire boats use gas for cooking and probably a higher percentage of privateers do and it works just fine .

 

[750XL]

8 minutes ago, CambridgeCabby said:

I’m a great believer in “if it isn’t broken don’t try and fix it” , at least 90% of the hire boats use gas for cooking and probably a higher percentage of privateers do and it works just fine .

 

I can understand the reason they opted for electric, and the first few days were great and if everything had worked properly, it would’ve been a perfect boat. But to lose all electric, fridge, cooker, hob, oven, microwave, kettle, the lot... gulp!
 

 

[MauriceMynah]

9 hours ago, 750XL said:

But to lose all electric, fridge, cooker, hob, oven, microwave, kettle, the lot... gulp!

A good and much debated point 750XL. 

I can see the advantages of the electric fridge (or rather the disadvantages of gas fridges) and of course, the microwave has to be leccie, but for the life of me I can't see why a loo has to be electric.

Cooking has been done on gas for years, and whilst I do see the dangers of gas, there is no great history of exploding boats. Yes, it has happened but it is, and was, very very rare.

One final point, I'm glad that the sentence I've quoted did not have both the word "Gulp" and reference to the loo!