The Latest Amended Broads Authority Guidance

[BroadAmbition]

There's an excuse for Griff to mount the Mighty Tiger!

If only!  Tooooo much gear to bring down with me

As I understand this latest guidance is that "open air" boating is permitted but not in a "covered" boat..... So presumably I can take my boat out as long as I only use the flybridge, but I breach regulations if I go inside....

Really? - Ye Gods whatever next?

Just how did the Ba glean that golden nugget from the government guidelines then? - It beggars belief, I would normally state sommat like 'I can't get my breath' but where the Ba are concerned - sadly - nowt surprises me nowadays.  Next they will be advising / ordering about HMG as to what the guidelines should be

The government guidelines state as from 12th April you may stay overnight in holidays homes etc as long as not mixing with another household.  Nowhere does it state that the windows have to be left open, the roofs taken off, The tent doors pinned back, the caravan roof peeled back etc etc

 I shall hopefully be taking 'B.A' out for just the one overnighter, (You see if I don't Ba - Are you paying attention?)  of my three day stay.  If the Ba really think I am leaving the canopy down all day / night and not cosying up indoors for the evening - Well we will be having a difference of opinion with me quoting the HMG guidelines at them and not the Ba's fairy tale crib sheet 

Griff

[JennyMorgan]

54 minutes ago, BroadAmbition said:

If only!  Tooooo much gear to bring down with me

I see Honda Goldwings with twee matching trailers, why not the same on a Tiger?

A lardy cake, a couple of Mars Bars and a bottle of Tizer, plus a thermal flat cap, what more do you need on an open boat?

[BroadAmbition]

Nowt much more.  However I'm bring down all the soft furnishings, seat backs, helms chair for t wheelhouse, two fridge doors, personal gear inc sleeping bag and a shed load of tools etc.  I'd need a box trailer bigger than the Tiger for all that lot!

Griff

[grendel]

8 hours ago, Helian said:

As I understand this latest guidance is that "open air" boating is permitted but not in a "covered" boat..... So presumably I can take my boat out as long as I only use the flybridge, but I breach regulations if I go inside....

if you are on your own then i dont see that it makes any difference. I believe most of the government regulations are for doing things in company, about how you interact with others. so if you are on yer tod, then all that really counts is the overnight stay allowed part.

[RS2021]

2 hours ago, grendel said:

I believe most of the government regulations are for doing things in company, about how you interact with others.

That's always been the key issue. Indoor/outdoor is only relevant to the social contact rules.  If you follow government rules, from last Monday you can meet one person from outside your household outdoors for recreation or exercise. So if you boat is open you can have the company of one other person with you. If you are on your own, or in a single household bubble, it doesn't matter if the boat is enclosed. These rules apply to recreation and exercise only until 29 March when the 'stay at home' order ends and you can be out for any reason.

[Meantime]

13 hours ago, Helian said:

As I understand this latest guidance is that "open air" boating is permitted but not in a "covered" boat..... So presumably I can take my boat out as long as I only use the flybridge, but I breach regulations if I go inside....

This confusion is what happens when other authorities start to interpret the advice.

First and foremost people should follow the Government legislation, this is enforceable by the Police, and the Government guidance.

The BA's guidance is nothing more than that and is not enforceable by either the Police or the BA.

I would suggest that people look at the Government legislation in relation to what they can or cannot do, should or shouldn't do overall, rather than just the one sector they want to engage in. For instance leisure boating for me falls under the category of recreation and therefore I will look to the Government legislation on recreation, followed by whom I'm allowed to enjoy that recreation with, followed by how far I can travel to enjoy that recreation, followed by the duration I'm allowed to spend away from home, for all my recreation, not just boating. 

The following Government graphics might make it easier for some. As of the 8th March the over arching aim is to still stay at home, but with some limited exceptions for recreation or exercise, but noting the limits on social mixing. On the 29th March the rules on social mixing outdoors are relaxed more and the stay at home message changes to minimise travel, but no holidays means no overnight stays away from home. Key things to consider for boats is who you are mixing with as to whether it can be indoors (covered boat) or outdoors (open boat). The BA trying to make a one size fits all simple chart doesn't work. You need to look at your own individual circumstances and plans and then look at the Government guidance to see if you can do it or not.

The next step is as follows, no earlier than 12th April. The relevant bits here are domestic overnight stays and self contained accommodation allowed for your own single household only. That would enable hire boats with overnight accommodation to operate providing they are hired by a single household. The self contained bit is why shared facilities at boat yards or caravan or camping parks should stay shut. The holiday easing does not extend to foreign holidays at this stage. You need to look at meeting all the criteria to realise that for instance your household could stay on a hire boat, or your own boat overnight, but you couldn't invite extended family or friends from another household at this stage, however you might decide to hold a BBQ or picnic next to your boat and invite another household or up to 6 people to enjoy that BBQ or picnic with you next to your boat, but they cannot shelter on your boat if it rains, or stay overnight.

The next step, no earlier than 17th May, relaxes some of the earlier rules further to enable to stay away from home with another household, subject to the limits. International travel now allowed and indoor hospitality open which is also the date that shared facilities at boat yards, caravan and camping parks would be allowed to open.

Then finally no earlier than 21st June the following are all allowed.

It's worth noting that each step contains some pretty big lifting of restrictions and the potential for the virus spread to take off again, meaning the timescales could well be modified.

 

 

 

[JennyMorgan]

That's all perfectly clear! Surprised that night clubs are to be opened so soon. Such places always struck me as pretty foetid, or at least the nightclubs to which I have been drawn have been!

[Meantime]

26 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

That's all perfectly clear! Surprised that night clubs are to be opened so soon. Such places always struck me as pretty foetid, or at least the nightclubs to which I have been drawn have been!

The key phrases are at least five weeks after step three and no earlier than. If any step is delayed due to the data then the rest will also be delayed. All the signs are looking promising and this year we have the vaccine which we didn't have last year. Lets hope that nightclubs are open on the 21st June, because it will mean the whole country is in a very good place. 

[Meantime]

The following two Government graphics just summarise the information in a slightly different way and might be handier for people as they could print them back to back on a A4 piece of paper as a handy quick reference.

 

 

 

[Meantime]

1 hour ago, JennyMorgan said:

That's all perfectly clear! Surprised that night clubs are to be opened so soon. Such places always struck me as pretty foetid, or at least the nightclubs to which I have been drawn have been!

Perhaps it was too clear as it has now been removed from the site. It might have been because of the graphics were deemed to be copyright material, but they are from a publication which is licensed under the Open Government License V3.0. 

To quote "You are encouraged to use and re-use the Information that is available under this licence freely and flexibly, with only a few conditions."

[JennyMorgan]

42 minutes ago, Meantime said:

Lets hope that nightclubs are open on the 21st June, because it will mean the whole country is in a very good place

Perhaps the country is in a good place, at the moment. My fear is what nasties the unthinking San Miguel swilling masses might bring back to our shores.

[Mouldy]

37 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Perhaps the country is in a good place, at the moment. My fear is what nasties the unthinking San Miguel swilling masses might bring back to our shores.

I don’t think it’ll take that long!!  My brother-in-law has his own business and within a day of his office manager sending her children back to school on Monday, one is already in isolation due to someone in the class being tested positive.

Sending all of the schools back at the same time was a mistake, as far as I’m concerned and I can see the consequences of that will be that the ‘road map’ dates will be pushed back as infections rise again.

[Meantime]

4 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

I don’t think it’ll take that long!!  My brother-in-law has his own business and within a day of his office manager sending her children back to school on Monday, one is already in isolation due to someone in the class being tested positive.

Sending all of the schools back at the same time was a mistake, as far as I’m concerned and I can see the consequences of that will be that the ‘road map’ dates will be pushed back as infections rise again.

It is worth pointing out though that rising infection rates alone is not one of the tests for pushing back the dates. 

Test 1 The vaccine deployment programme continues successfully.

Test 2 Evidence shows vaccines are sufficiently effective in reducing hospitalisations and deaths in those vaccinated.

Test 3 Infection rates do not risk a surge in hospitalisations which would put unsustainable pressure on the NHS.

Test 4 Our assessment of the risks is not fundamentally changed by new variants of concern.

The above tests allow for wiggle room in the rate of infection to rise in the younger healthier population without affecting the planned roadmap dates, as long as it doesn't result in a surge of hospitalisations or deaths. As long as the vaccine protects the elderly and vulnerable, the younger population could be allowed to gain more natural herd immunity providing it doesn't put too much pressure on the NHS.

[Mouldy]

33 minutes ago, Meantime said:

 . . . . . . . . The above tests allow for wiggle room in the rate of infection to rise in the younger healthier population without affecting the planned roadmap dates, as long as it doesn't result in a surge of hospitalisations or deaths. As long as the vaccine protects the elderly and vulnerable, the younger population could be allowed to gain more natural herd immunity providing it doesn't put too much pressure on the NHS.

Hmmm, but the point here is that whilst the vast majority of vulnerable and older members of society have received at least one dose of vaccine, most parents of school age children will be under 40-45 and have yet to be vaccinated.  It seem obvious to me that the incidence of cases is going to rise as the result of children mixing at school and potentially taking the virus home.

I get that schools need to reopen and the education process get underway again, but if the time spent in lockdown proves to have been wasted, due to pushing it too fast, I wonder how well the prolonging of restrictive measures will be received.

[Cheesey69]

It’s about the pressure on the NHS always was, keep that to a containable level and covid slips into flu territory 

[Meantime]

Just now, Mouldy said:

Hmmm, but the point here is that whilst the vast majority of vulnerable and older members of society have received at least one dose of vaccine, most parents of school age children will be under 40-45 and have yet to be vaccinated.  It seem obvious to me that the incidence of cases is going to rise as the result of children mixing at school and potentially taking the virus home.

I get that schools need to reopen and the education process get underway again, but if the time spent in lockdown proves to have been wasted, due to pushing it too fast, I wonder how well the prolonging of restrictive measures will be received.

I understand what your saying, but when you consider that 99% of the deaths have occurred in the over 50's, which as you point out is not the age bracket for school age children parents. The same is true for hospitilisations. If infections rise in the under 50's who have not been vaccinated, but they are healthy enough in general to fend off the virus at home, then in many ways it is not a lot different to what we face every year with the flu. Group 6 those with underlying conditions also takes into account those below 50, so most of the at risk have, or very soon will have had their first jab.

[Mouldy]

2 minutes ago, Cheesey69 said:

It’s about the pressure on the NHS always was, keep that to a containable level and covid slips into flu territory 

I can’t remember a year when the NHS hasn’t been reported to be under pressure in the New Year as the result of winter ‘flu.  The R Number is the buzzword (phrase) and that will surely rise in the coming weeks.

I hope I’m wrong, but watching how kids are mixing out of school where I live does generate a cause for concern, as it is clearly evident that social distancing has been forgotten about.

[RS2021]

23 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

It seem obvious to me that the incidence of cases is going to rise as the result of children mixing at school and potentially taking the virus home.

Don't forget that all secondary school pupils are being tested twice a week. It will find out more cases, but hopefully will also mean that they are isolated sooner so pass on the virus less. In Liverpool when there was mass testing it brought the overall infections down very fast. Current government strategy. Vaccine for older folk. Mass testing for schools.

[ExSurveyor]

Eldest grandchildren were tested at school today and start back tomorrow if they have negative tests. The two youngest are both back in primary school today and are in class bubbles.

We are getting there.

[vanessan]

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/broads-boat-hire-resumes-amid-concern-from-residents-7816810 
 

(The EDP headline actually reads ‘Vigilant boat firm checking postcodes to weed out non-local customers.)

[Meantime]

12 minutes ago, vanessan said:

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/broads-boat-hire-resumes-amid-concern-from-residents-7816810 
 

(The EDP headline actually reads ‘Vigilant boat firm checking postcodes to weed out non-local customers.)

The level of journalism at the EDP has got worse if that were possible. 

Quote "The prime minister's lockdown roadmap said day boat hire for a local, single household or bubble could resume on March 8, with this being extended to six people or two households from March 29."

The Government's roadmap made no mention of day boat hire at all. All recreation activities have to fit in with the general guidelines that the Government have advertised in their roadmap out of lockdown.

Quotes such as the one above from the EDP are mixing information from several sources to look like it came from the Prime Minister. I agree that there is nothing in the Government roadmap to prevent hiring an open air day boat for recreation from the 8th March providing you are local and abide by the social distancing rules, but such specific advice was not published by the Government. 

[JennyMorgan]

I note the following comments in the EDP article:

Sales manager James Brooks said: "I can understand why people are worried but Herbert Woods is simply following the guidance from the government and the Broads Authority on this.

"We had a BA ranger and member of Broads Beat visit us on Monday to ensure we were complying with all regulations, and they believed we were."

Read into that what you will but personally I would suggest that the BA leaves this one to Broads Beat.

[Meantime]

6 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Read into that what you will but personally I would suggest that the BA leaves this one to Broads Beat.

I would tend to agree. The BA have no powers of enforcement when it comes to Corona Virus legislation, but they do have a vested interest as the licensing authority for the hire boats concerned. As long as HW is happy that it is on the list of businesses allowed to open, then it is doing nothing wrong. As long as customers conform to the legislation on mixing outdoors and are local, then they are also doing nothing wrong. 

[SwanR]

The problem with Herbert Woods is not their setup but that they openly advertised dayboats for anyone living In Norfolk from 8th March while government rules are still stay at home. That’s my complaint and remains so unless they change it. The problem with what they are doing is the travel aspect. 

[MauriceMynah]

Whilst I know that the BA does not have "Power of enforcement", it does have the authority to advise people disregarding the rules, and it does have the authority to contact Broadsbeat if said advice is ignored.