The Mysterious Ways Of Planners.

[Wussername]

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/24058830.irstead-thatched-roof-battle-ends-homeowner-victory/

 

[dom]

I noticed that one earlier. If you go through BA's expenditure reports, there are huge amounts (often tens of thousands) being spent every month on 3rd party legal fees. It does make you wonder how much of it is being wasted on pointless action like this.

Irstead is lovely and really one of the last few unspoilt parts of the broads. It pains me to see thatch lost from a property there and I don't for one minute believe the owner of a £1m property can't overcome the "supply issues with thatch due to the Ukraine situation" which was used as justification for changing to tile. I really can't understand why the BA took the position they did when I'd assume they must be able to make a fast track listing submission to remove the development rights on the roof completely?

You can understand why no-one seemingly wants the Head of Planning job though! I notice it's being re-advertised again.

[Smoggy]

I'd have been inclined to have the stuff took off the main house bodged on to the extension just enough to say look it's thatched now I'm going to tile it.

Then again I'm no thatcher and have no clue if that's even possible. 

[dom]

13 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

Then again I'm no thatcher and have no clue if that's even possible. 

I suspect most thatchers could, but none would. Those that still exist seem to be doing it pretty much just for the love of it to try and preserve the tradition.

It'd be interesting to know if it's a permanent residence. I'd imagine the swap from thatch to tile would increase the property value substantially.

 

[Turnoar]

Tile might be cheaper to insure than thatch.

[MauriceMynah]

Given that there was a recognised way round the problem that both parties were aware of, it does appear that the BA took a bloody minded approach.

I can see the point of having listed buildings but this wasn't one. I just get cross when organisations boss people about for neither gain nor good reason. 

 

[LizG]

I would hardly call this "his pretty Broads cottage" - its a house!

I have a friend who has a 'pretty cottage' close to the Broads but outside the BA area where the original cottage is thatched and the modern parts use tile.  The rules and regulations for just this small area of thatch are quite something and would certainly put me off ever owning a thatched house especially if I had wood burners!

[FairTmiddlin]

As the article said the availability of 1. a Thatcher (it's a dying trade I'm afraid)

2 Availability of Norfolk Reed Or any reed in fact is in short supply and would have to wait for three years,  just to get the extension thatched. 

I have a friend who hires out one of her barns to a thatcher and was chatting to him out of interest as my uncle was a thatcher in Suffolk.

He told me that even if he could buy reed to thatch, the price of it is so prohibitive that customers baulk at the cost.

His main Thatching material now is long-stalked straw. But this is getting to be in shorter and shorter supply, year on year as farmers are going for more yield from shorter stalked varieties.

[FairTmiddlin]

1 hour ago, dom said:

 you run the risk of turning around one day and realising that substantial numbers of historic thatched properties have gone. Ironically, it's another area where National Park status should be benefical but, yet again, BA seem inept in their handling of things.

But it's not even an historic building. It was built in the 1920s, in an Arts and crafts style. And is not a listed building.

[dom]

7 minutes ago, FairTmiddlin said:

But it's not even an historic building.

How do you get anything historic though, if you allow everything "outdated" to be updated or replaced?

Thatch is all but unused, so good examples need to be preserved, otherwise it'll be lost forever. You have to have the foresight to see when something is under threat.

I do also think the arts & crafts style has merit, as its character is really sympathetic with older properties nearby. Irstead has a couple of other really nice examples, including a fairly sizeable one which is stunning.

[floydraser]

I don't think "historic" makes something worth preserving to a fine degree. That is what the listing process is all about.

 

[Wussername]

13 minutes ago, floydraser said:

I don't think "historic" makes something worth preserving to a fine degree. That is what the listing process is all about.

 

Sorry FD. You have me confused, disadvantaged. Easily done.

Historic. 

famous or important in history, or potentially .

Listing process:

Who, you me, i do live hear you know. Do I not have a say. 

As I get older, and older, I witness Broadland, the city of Norwich, the villages of Norfolk being exploited by by those who wish to take financial advantage and then guess what. Move on. Leaving behind social issues with regard to education, care for the elderly, medical centres, dentists, hospital admissions. 

Our rivers, marshland, broads, walks, birds, fishing, . All under threat.

Sadly our wonderful heritage the very foundation of our existence and values seems to be of little value and in many respects i personally feel somewhat vunerable, however I am of an age that hopefully there are those much younger than I who will transpire to the ideal of my older generation.

 

[Paladin]

5 hours ago, dom said:

Ironically, it's another area where National Park status should be benefical...

Not defending the BA, but there are ‘designated areas’ in which permitted development rights are more restricted. These areas include conservation areas, National Parks, AONBs, World Heritage Sites, and the Norfolk and Suffolk Broads. So being a National Park, would, in this instance, have made no difference.

[Turnoar]

4 hours ago, dom said:

Thatch is all but unused, so good examples need to be preserved, otherwise it'll be lost forever. You have to have the foresight to see when something is under threat.

I do also think the arts & crafts style has merit, as its character is really sympathetic with older properties nearby. Irstead has a couple of other really nice examples, including a fairly sizeable one which is stunning.

I agree, albeit I don’t know the sizeable example you’re referring to, however my favourite, nearby but not quite on the broads, has to be Happisburgh Manor which is listed. Sadly that won’t save it from listing and landing on the beach at some point if the cliff continues to erode, hopefully not in our lifetime though!

[floydraser]

56 minutes ago, Wussername said:

Sorry FD. You have me confused, disadvantaged. Easily done.

Historic. 

famous or important in history, or potentially .

Listing process:

Who, you me, i do live hear you know. Do I not have a say. 

As I get older, and older, I witness Broadland, the city of Norwich, the villages of Norfolk being exploited by by those who wish to take financial advantage and then guess what. Move on. Leaving behind social issues with regard to education, care for the elderly, medical centres, dentists, hospital admissions. 

Our rivers, marshland, broads, walks, birds, fishing, . All under threat.

Sadly our wonderful heritage the very foundation of our existence and values seems to be of little value and in many respects i personally feel somewhat vunerable, however I am of an age that hopefully there are those much younger than I who will transpire to the ideal of my older generation.

 

Sorry, what I meant was that something getting old does not in itself make it worth preserving.

[ZimbiIV]

19 minutes ago, floydraser said:

Sorry, what I meant was that something getting old does not in itself make it worth preserving.

Well I think I am worth preserving.

We I am trying to pickle myself tonight.

paul

[dom]

2 minutes ago, Turnoar said:

my favourite, nearby but not quite on the broads, has to be Happisburgh Manor which is listed.

I can't quite decide whether it's stunning, or whether it's been over done just the tiniest amount. The protruding porch is very Tudor. A branch of my ancestors owned Hall Farm at Colkirk, which is original Tudor - the porch really reminds me of there. The chimneys are very Tudor too. I'm not sure if it's the scale of them which might be a little too much. I could probably force myself to live with it if it was being given away though!

It's a shame there aren't a few more buildings like this closer to the cliffs. It'd be interesting to see how they'd cope with the issue of tides vs listed building.

[grendel]

1 hour ago, dom said:

It'd be interesting to see how they'd cope with the issue of tides vs listed building.

Probably try and get king Canute to visit.

[Bikertov]

3 hours ago, ZimbiIV said:

Well I think I am worth preserving.

We I am trying to pickle myself tonight.

paul

Our MM is a fine example of this important and skilled practice 

[YnysMon]

4 hours ago, grendel said:

Probably try and get king Canute to visit.

Cnut, surely? 

From an Anglo Saxon nerd. 

[grendel]

2 hours ago, YnysMon said:

Cnut, surely? 

From an Anglo Saxon nerd. 

I was tempted to use that spelling, but considered more might recognise the spelling I used

[Vaughan]

 

14 hours ago, FairTmiddlin said:

But this is getting to be in shorter and shorter supply, year on year as farmers are going for more yield from shorter stalked varieties.

I can certainly relate to that.  If you look at old photos of farming in Norfolk, just after the War, the "standing corn" was around waist high.  I remember all the "stooks" stood up in the field to dry, before the "troshin' machine" arrived.

Where we lived in the Petit Camargue at St Gilles, are several square miles of managed reed beds, among the rice fields.  It is a quite a big industry, considered to be second only to the Norfolk reed and it is wholly exported to Belgium and the Netherlands, for thatching.

[Vaughan]

9 hours ago, floydraser said:

Sorry, what I meant was that something getting old does not in itself make it worth preserving.

That'll be my car, then . . . .

[Vaughan]

1 hour ago, Vaughan said:

the "standing corn" was around waist high.

Sorry, I meant shoulder high!

[BroadAmbition]

I just get cross when organisations boss people about for neither gain nor good reason. 

You and me both, I get cross when planners have an obvious common sense reply to an application but just have to alter it around to prove 'They' have the power and control over us mere mortals just for the hell of it, it seems.

Recently my daughter and her family applied for extension planning to their recently purchase 'Forever home' in Finningley village, their property lies within a small conservation area.  They went to great lengths with their architect for sympathetically altering the front of the house so that it matched the style of neighbouring properties.

It got turned down flat by the 'New in post' planning officer for their area, his reasoning was in his opinion that it would look 'Too Flash' (His words) - We weren't aware that was a rule that town planners had to abide by

Their architect had to go above the new boys head to the senior officer, who apparently sighed, signed it off himself with no alterations and said he would 'Have a word with the new boy downstairs'

------------------

Years ago now, our joined on neighbour (We are in a semi detached) wanted to erect a substantial conservatory to the back of his property adjoining our back garden.  I wrote to the planners giving our consent with no objections to help the process along.  The planners made him have both end corners of the conservatory 'Hipped'  he wanted a square corner next to the border line.  This was a case of the planners making an adjustment 'Just cos they could' 

Years later we joined the party and had an identical size conservatory added, I too wanted a square corner on the borderline, no problem stated the planners as your neighbour already has a conservatory so you can have a square corner not hipped, then they stated his could have been square too 

You couldn't make it up

Griff