Lord Nelson, any news?

[JennyMorgan]

http://www.daltonsbusiness.com/public-houses-for-sale/closed-broadland-pub-and-restaurant-fronti-norfolk-uk/362695

 

I note that the Lord Nelson at Reedham is still up for grabs. I also note that in the sales guff the place needs a complete refurbishment. Well, if that's the case then prospective customers best get a move on! I know that it is common practice to leave such things to the last moment but May is only five months away. I say this with a tad of trepidation as I'd hate to think we might loose yet another Broads pub. 

 

 

Whilst on the subject anyone know if anything is happening to the pub at Berney?

 

[NorfolkNog]

I posted a bit about the Lord Nelson the other day over on this thread Peter

 

Re the Berney - I can't see it being sold anythime soon, its a lot of money and the owner is still trying to retain part of the site for holiday lets.

 

Sadly one pub is owned by a greedy pub co and the other by a rapacious developer so unless a wealthy fairy godmother comes forward the future for both looks bleak. Shame because they are both fine pubs (or were). very sad.

 

[JennyMorgan]

Thanks, Howard, pretty much as I'd guessed, great shame. With the Broads picking up it would be a pity to lose either. 

[NorfolkNog]

I agree Peter, it is a great shame. I suppose if the Berney does not sell the owner might consider letting it again. Problem is that as soon as he thinks anyone is starting to make it pay he hikes the rent up. The pub also needs a lot of work and of course the access problem is a real headache for anyone who takes it on. The owner is trying to pretty much sell the pub on its own and retain the land with some idea of holiday accommodation but with no access I cant see how the BA would allow that and unless the holiday makers arrive by boat or train its a non starter. It’s all pie in the sky unfortunately.

 

Amazingly the rent being asked for the Berney was twice as much as the Locks which does have (albeit basic) road access. The Locks is also in much better condition.

 

The Nelson is owned by the Wellington Pub co who I don’t think are as cash strapped as Punch or Enterprise so might not be very willing to sell freehold. Anyone taking it on would have to stump up a large amount to get it anything like, I just don’t think the sums add up.

 

As I always say, if that lottery comes up………  

[NorfolkNog]

Hi Paul

 

I'm afraid you are right, it will need a real philanthropist to take them on unless either owner shifts ground and I can't see that happening in the near future sadly. 

 

I think Peter makes a fair point, many yards are doing well but part of the problem is that many people simply do not use the pubs. There are many times I have seen people moored up at the Berney and Reedham and drinking out of cans on the boats. It's very sad.

[MauriceMynah]

I do believe the Broads trade is picking up, the pub trade sadly slightly less so though still a little. With the exception of the Berney Arms where the situation for moorers is a bit different, one still has to fetch up a bit earlier if you want to moor outside a pub when the season is swinging.

 

The whole pub trade is suffering from the double whammy of over taxation and pub owning businesses, milking the landlords dry. 

[JennyMorgan]

JM

You said 'With the Broads picking up'

Are you sure of that? Yes the hire boat prices are increasing and the major yards maintains and in some cases increasing their profits, but 'picking up' that's a matter of conjecture sir, facilities are being restricted, moorings being lost and money being wasted on over administration.

 

Paul, in principle I agree with you but all is not bad. I am aware of the profits of some of the larger yards and thankfully some are pumping reinvestment back into their business. I'm sure that Clive at Richardsons won't take offence when I say that a few years ago his yard was not what it is today. I visited it last spring, wow, what a change and all for the better. The same can be said of the Waveney River Centre at Burgh St Peters and Herbert Woods at Potter. Undoubtedly things have picked up but there is a large 'but' in this, BUT the general infrastructure is not keeping up. The quality of boats is on the up, but I doubt very much that pubs etc are generally meeting expectations of those hiring these soopa-doopa, plush boats. 

 

There are success stories along the river bank but with unrealistic pub-co's I'm afraid we are loosing pubs. We are loosing a few moorings but by and large the Broads Authority is doing a good job in providing a network of good quality 24hr moorings. However some of these really do not meet the aspirations of those on 45' cruisers, arguably some of the new boats are outgrowing the provision of moorings. What is certainly lacking is the provision of shore power at 24hr moorings but is this the fault of those providing the moorings or the fault of those providing the boats?

 

Administration, well, this is one thing that I do have strong feelings about. It is required but some fifty percent of our toll goes to paying for it. Bearing in mind that navigation is one third of the BA's responsibility it is debatable whether the tolls should pay any more than 30% towards administration. As for that administration this includes a grossly inefficient, poor value planning department. Why, for heaven's sakes, why should toll money support a planning department for example?

 

Facilities are being restricted but this is a tough one to get right. I have to say that planning on the Broads is restrictive and probably excessively so but do we really want commerce to have a free hand? For example developers at St Olaves want to increase their moorings by providing floating pontoons in the river. In a nutshell we mustn't spoil what people come here to enjoy. Getting the balance right is no easy job but I do accept that 'authority' needs to live in the 21st century rather than the 19th! At the same time those of us who live here need to be remembered, it is our home. We shall still be here long after the career public servants that inhabit Yare House have passed on.

 

I have watched the Broads for over sixty years, believe me, the Broads is picking up. Granted that there are casualties but I suspect that some of these are down to the demands of the 'city' rather than a lack of pick up on the Broads. 

[DAVIDH]

I was watching the promotional video from Richardsons the other day and an "older" couple on a Broadsman stated they often stay on the boat on an evening drinking their own beers and wines as they find it pleasureable. 

 

I think the pubs need to work on grabbing the attention of the holidaymakers to get them off their boats. I have been visiting the Broads since the 70s and have bemoaned for years the lack of any entertainment in the bars. Some like the Lion at Thurne, the White Horse at Loddon, the White Horse at Upton, Broadshaven in Potter do put live events on whether that be bands, duos or even karaoke and my experience is that it does drag the punters in and keeps them there late. It must be working as these establishments are all hosting again for 2015. 

 

The prospect of a good meal out at a bar is also an attraction but in these cash strapped times it has to be said that the prices charged riverside are out of kilter with what you pay at home. The likes of Wetherspoons, Fare and Square, Sizzler pubs are all doing well because the price point matches peoples pockets at the moment. Compare their prices with the average Broads menu and you can see a disincentive to eat out more often.

 

Regards

David

[Baitrunner]

Isn't the demise of the riverside pub in line with all the other pubs that have been closing?

 

I know I am a youngster on the Broads compared to some of you (no disrespect meant)     but since I have been on them there has always been complaints that boaters simply don't use the pubs as much as they used to. Hard for me to comment, but most of the moorings outside pubs that I frequent on the South definitely get trade. The WoodsEnd Bramerton, Ferry Inn Surlingham, Coldham Hall Brundall, Reedham Ferry. Outside these I always thought the moorings were for patrons only (I know Reedham Ferry is different as they charge a nominal fee (£3.50) but then you get 10% of any food in the pub and use of the shower when it works, so there is an incentive to use the pub).

 

I know most of the time we are out, there is a pub visit in the itinerary as we treat it as a holiday which means not much cooking. Sure maybe we cant afford to do this all the time, but then we would leave a pub mooring for someone else to use and moor elsewhere. Very rare, as mentioned, to see a pub with vacant moorings in season.

 

Even if a couple drive to a pub for a meal, I would hope one of them isn't drinking. At least if my wife and I go in a pub off the boat we will both have a drink (assuming we are moored up for the night). So this again is a general issue with people being sensible more than not using the pubs. A lot of the more successful pubs seem to have a good reputation for food. take the New Inn at Rockland - they also do takeaway food (very reasonable) and people will have a little drink while they wait for their food - They would make more money if people dined in, but they are making the most of a bad thing and filling a hole in the market for those on the Staithe. 

 

I do agree the bigger boats possibly don't help (but people maybe want a bit more luxury now) and the electric points are getting more prolific and will no doubt increase - all my hire boats in times gone by never had electric hook ups (my boat does, but I can get by on batteries for well over 12hrs - maybe hire boats need an extra couple of batteries installed) - Rome wasn't built in a day. Does not having access to an electric point really cause a problem (turn the TV off and enjoy a bit of nature - my little rant  ).  

 

IMHO the general demise of a lot of pubs is sensible people drinking less in pubs and tighter purse strings - a family of 4 on a boating holiday may not be able to afford to eat and drink out every night.

 

It's a bit like the local high street - all charity shops, takeaways and discount shops because the other shops cant compete with the internet prices so people don't use the shops and they close. Drinking your own beer and eating a takeaway or your own cooked food is always cheaper than in a pub/restaurant.

 

Sorry, I don't have an answer to the problem, but maybe more moorings outside pubs for patrons only might just help - assuming they can afford to have the moorings installed and have the land. The failing businesses need to look at what the successful ones are doing right to survive.

[MauriceMynah]

The national demise of the public house industry has been discussed by many people in various places for some years now, to little effect.

No-one can agree on what the causes are, nor any way to reverse the trend, but there are however one or two points that scream out at me.

OK, a recent issue, active at the moment. One of the cancer charities have called for a "Give up the booze in January."

Oh that must be music to the landlords ears!!! Not to mention that any level of take up will effect not only the pubs but the exchequer too. How will the Government recoup the loss in revenue from that? (given the lower income from VAT on petrol dropping too).

So with charities telling people not to drink, Police telling people not to drive to pubs and the government telling them that they can't have a smoke when they get there, how come there are folk who still can't see why the industry is having a few little problems these days!

[NorfolkNog]

I'm afraid I'm not impressed with this dry January malarky. I don't condone binge drinking by any means but January is a very tough month for pubs and this is the last thing they need (IMHO of course)

[LondonRascal]

It is a shame to see pubs close but look on the other side of the coin dos anyone else ever want more than just a few pints and pub grub?

 

On a summers day sat outside the likes of the Swan in Horning watching the boats pass and feeling relaxed is lovely – but in many cases people will go to a destination (take Reedham) as an overnight point either to cross Breydon the next day, or head on towards Norwich, or Loddon etc and when they have arrived they find a lovely setting by the river but I wonder if the a pub is what is needed.

 

Recently near my home something rather surprising has popped up – in fact I don’t think it will survive because it is a bit too good for my area but none the less I love it and now go there far more than my local pub. 

 

It is a coffee house, and it serves coffee but a whole lot more besides in essence it is one of those ‘Bistro Bars’ you find on in Europe, you can stop by for a coffee and a muffin and use the free WiFi and pay less than Starbucks and drink proper Italian coffee, but you might like to have lunch there too.  In the evening the vibe changes – live music, good wines, beers and food with a great atmosphere but if you want a pancake and a milkshake that is fine too.

 

Be it a group of friends, a family or just a couple you feel welcome and feel as if something is going on.  It is not a pub neither a café or a formal restaurant – it is all of them open from 9 in the morning till midnight.  Something like that is where I would make a ‘B-Line’ for if it was to exist on the Broads rather than ‘another pub’.

[BuffaloBill]

 

"

 have bemoaned for years the lack of any entertainment in the bars. "

 

Personally, I can't stand the 'noise' from someone else's 'taste' in music!

When we go into a pub, I want to have a drink and something to eat and

be able to chat with those who have come with me. NOT have to sit there

unable to talk with my friends without shouting at them and them to me!

I do walk out of pubs if there's 'music' blaring out either from a 'disco' or

a 'Band'. Background music is fine but rarely stays at that due to it being

turned up as the evening goes on.

I know I'm not alone on this score either, but I'll put my tin hat on now 

[Baitrunner]

Howard,

    Apparently since your last visit before Christmas 15 pubs have closed on the Broads - apparently they ran out of beer          

[jeffbroadslover]

BuffaloBill, totally agree with you.

 

If I were to go to the pub I would be looking at enjoying a relaxing drink,  Not going home with a headache from having my ears blasted with the thump thump  thump of what they call music nowadays.

 

If the pub owners did not insist on such a high profit margin on everything form pints to peanuts the prices could be more favourable and may attract more customers.

 

One day someone will come up with the  satisfactory solution but who knows when that may be.!

 

Jeff

[stumpy]

Well said Bill. For us the only drawback at Sutton Staithe is the speaker in the room with the stove. Kills learned mardling!

[Polly]

I love the band night atmosphere, less keen on piped music.

[JennyMorgan]

Agree with Polly ref live bands but please, let it be a good pub band. Was at Surlingham last year, no, year before now, really not a good band. We tarried a while whilst others finished their pints and went, and I really didn't blame them.

 

However, there are some darn good bands on the Norfolk/Suffolk pub circuit, just not conducive to those of you wanting an intimate chat though. 

[MauriceMynah]

Be the band good or bad, be they to my taste or not, I can enjoy live music as long as it isn't played at me at 5000db.

I have walked out of a pub where the band was playing music I liked just because it was playing it far too loud, yet stayed in another pub who's band was murdering some of my favourite tunes but at an acceptable volume.

 

Landlords and managers take note... the idea is to keep us IN the bar!

[JennyMorgan]

Landlords and managers take note... the idea is to keep us IN the bar!

 

​Exactly! I have watched in amazement as folk walked out, having expressed their opinion, yet the management have not intervened by at least turning the volume down, despite the emptying bar.  Sorry lads, you are costing me money!!

[Boaters]

Just read a post " elswhere " that there is interest and lets hope it can re open and become the pub it used to be and should be in this lovely riverside position .It would be nice to hear the same for the Berney ,but feel that will be a harder task.

[JennyMorgan]

I hope that there is interest but just hope that whatever develops isn't just an overpriced 'boutique' style outlet. I'm not advocating a 'spit and sawdust', although I would prefer it, but something on the lines of Oulton Broad's Commodore would be good, smart, modern, slightly up-market and inviting.

[MauriceMynah]

There's little point in describing what sort of pub would be best as that will be different for every customer, what it needs to be is a successful pub.

Permit the new landlord his own choice.

My ideal pub is one that does little or no food, is dog friendly and has a storage cellar for children ready for their parents to collect on leaving the establishment.

[BroadScot]

MM,

 

This has always been a concern to me in pubs, kids in them. I appreciate they are on holiday also, but the continuous running about when folks like me are carrying GLASS on a tray for example can be a very risky business. When I was a laddie the nearest I got inside a pub, was the snug, and even then had to sit very quietly...or else! So your cellar idea is a very sensible one

 

Iain.

[JennyMorgan]

The children in the cellar idea has one drawback, or advantage depending on outlook, that of high tides & rising damp.