Breydon

[Liberty]

Pootling around Breydon on Saturday - seems to me it would be a good idea for the hire yards to give a photo similar to hirers next year, if the amount of grounded boats this year is an indication to go by.  To convince them there really is mud, and the posts are not just for decoration...

 

[Maxwellian]

Excellent idea

[Gracie]

I am a hirer and know there really is mud out there and posts are not just for decoration, I think probably 99% of us do. Those of you that know me, know that I have no wish to start an argument about hirers and owners, so please don't take this the wrong way.

A very good idea for novices but the veterans among us are more than capable of crossing Breydon and know the right times in which to do so 

Very nice picture by the way

Grace

 

[Chelsea14Ian]

You are right Grace, most people get it right it's just a few that don't. 

Ian

[JawsOrca]

Thing is anyone (Cruising within the broads) going over breydon should only be doing so on a low tide.. So maybe all that needs to be written down is "If you don't see the mud you are going the wrong way"...

[JawsOrca]

Sorry Dave I thought the general advice is passing through Breydon at slack water which I believe is one hour after low water? Therefore one should always be transiting Breydon with mud clearly visible.  Personally I think that's brilliant advice and that's what I do and I think that's what most other people do.

My thoughts on passing the narrow section by GYYS outside of slack has been expressed before but yes I think it's a stupid idea and doing so puts the boats engine under undo strain and I would never do it even if I was helming a boat that "could". 

[Chelsea14Ian]

To go across on high tide you are asking for problem ie bridge hights fighting the tide etc, I agree with Alan.

Ian

[BuffaloBill]

How many people take into account the Tides when navigating the Yare and the Wensum?

ME!

I ALWAYS work the tides when I come south for our bi-annual trip and even work the tides if travelling from OB to Beccles!

Whether we go over Breydon and up to Norwich or head toward OB/Beccles really depends how the tides work for us in that particular week. It does take some time to work out before hand but pays dividends on fuel consumption as well as time going anywhere.

OK, I'm an owner now but I was a hirer for many years and I did the same then. Never had an issue.

Edited September 29, 2015 by BuffaloBill

[Guest]

.......Until the advent of forums like this no hirer gave the tides a thought and according to some on here there were far less groundings. Q.E.D.........

a page from "The Broads Book", published in 1978.....

Edited September 29, 2015 by Strowager

[Guest]

And how many people read the Broads Book Strowy? Both you and I know that people were not obsessed with researching every aspect of their holiday, they just turned up and got on with it.......

More's the pity if that's true.

There's another sentence in there stating "It is extremely dangerous to try to pass through any bridges while there is an ebb tide running".......

[Guest]

...... Just out of interest why do you think its more dangerous to pass through a bridge on an ebb tide than on a flood tide and is either any more dangerous than passing through Reedham when the tides banging through?.........

I didn't write that guidebook Dave, nor this page from the BA

http://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/boating/navigating-the-broads/getting-safely-through-great-yarmouth

But I don't consider myself clever enough to dispute the advice given.

[Baitrunner]

I am only going to comment on what I have seen and a few people I have spoken to. 

And bear in mind we maybe have 2% of owner/hirers on this forum who know what to do be it low or high water!!

So, in my experience many have no idea of tides and bridge heights and just go for it. I recently saw SOB turning boats back at Bernie arms. 10 mins later after she has gone they are on the hoof. I have many examples  

I honestly don't think the majority have a clue about tides and bridge heights. It's their holiday and they have an agenda. As if they were touring by car. Luckily most get through  

I personally would try to aim for GY at low slack, but that's just me being cautious. 

I agree the fuel saving vs holiday is not relevant for many. But maybe safety should be. Especially if inexperienced, although even the best can get caught out!!

[JennyMorgan]

More's the pity if that's true.

There's another sentence in there stating "It is extremely dangerous to try to pass through any bridges while there is an ebb tide running".......

Heavens only knows why! For centuries wherries and sailing boats have used the tides to carry them downstream and onto Breydon.

[JennyMorgan]

How to do it properly:

http://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/422386/Safely-through-Gt-Yarmouth-2014.pdf

I'm clever enough to know that it's good advice!!

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

Do a search and type in crossing Breydon in the 70's nearly all the pics show Breydon at High Tide as do most of the pics I can find on Carols Broadland memories. Just out of interest why do you think its more dangerous to pass through a bridge on an ebb tide than on a flood tide and is either any more dangerous than passing through Reedham when the tides banging through? Also why do we appear to have more incidents now than in the 70's?

 

Dave

And now with fewr hire boats too.

[Viking23]

Does anyone know how many boats cross Breydon on any one day at the height of the summer?

There might only be one suitable low slack water per day due to daylight, so if all boats arrived at low slack water, it would be very very congested.

With our mere 15 HP outboard engine, and normal cruising speed of 5 mph, we would find punching the tide hard work, noiser, and the transit would take much longer, and consume much more hard to find petrol.

At 4000 rpm, we could achieve 6 mph, but that is not an economical speed for us. We have that speed available to us, should we need it, in fact, at 4500 rpm...we could reach 6.4 mph, and at 5000 rpm... no increase in speed in our 23' narrow beam cruiser, it just digs in and ploughs a bigger bow wave lol.

When we arrive at low slack water, in the height of the season, we have rarely seen more than 5 or 6 boats going in our direction, a couple of boats may have overtaken us down the Bure, but we rely on the ebb to save a few revs. We have a hand held GPS and that gives us our speed over land to a resolution of 0.1 mph.

But on some of our transits, we will have seen one boat aground either on the lower Bure, or on the mud flats. 

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

 

One other thing to consider when going over statistics is to ask how many high topped boats were available for hire. The only one i can think of is the old Topcraft boat from the early 70s. I can`t remember what it was called, but it was quite an ugly looking thing based on the american houseboat theme.  Now, with these high topped designs, the fleet operators have introduced dramatic cruising restrictions with low tide at Gt Yarmouth being either late at night, or too early in the morning.  Sometimes, it`s just not convenient, or possible to transit Breydon at slack water. And to be honest (and this is only MY opinion) the fleet operators only have themselves to blame for the number of boats getting stuck under bridges, because these designs did`nt exist in the 70s, except for the Topcraft one that is.

 

I`ve said it before, but i wonder if newbies who book through Hoseasons etc are made aware of the cruising restrictions the high top designs introduce, and also are they given the correct advice at the time of booking as to whether or not, the boat they`ve booked REALLY meets with their requirements?.

 

 

[ExSurveyor]

Speedtriple,

 You are 20 years out on your Topcraft date,  the first purpose built one was built in 1992. They have a clearance height of 7' 6".  

 

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

Speedtriple,

 You are 20 years out on your Topcraft date,  the first purpose built one was built in 1992. They have a clearance height of 7' 6".  

 

Hi Psychic,

 

Sorry, i`m NOT wrong, you`re talking about the "Topcraft Topliner" design, one of which was adapted to take touring caravans. The one i`m talking about predates that by many many years. I don`t know if there are any pictures of it on Craigs database, or where Dan might have some pics stashed away somewhere.

The Topliner design like yours was actually quite a nice design, with many unique features.

 

 

[Oddfellow]

Freedom does not permit passage across Breydon expect at slack water. I believe that this is also a T&C item in Herbert Woods' contract also. 

 

 

[Captain]

Hi

Speed triple is indeed correct, I believe it was called Topdeck class (3) and was a distinctive American houseboat design from the late 60's or early 70's I have a 1974 Hoseasons brochure somewhere however I don't have access to it at the moment. Other similar designs included Jack Powles Star Corsair/Clipper/Trident/Cutter classes also cc 1970

Neil

[ExSurveyor]

Thanks for the info guys, I stand corrected . So the Topdeck was the very ugly version of the slightly Ugly Topliner   

I have never heard mention of the Topdeck and would be interested to see any pictures. 

[NorfolkNog]

Neil raises a good point about the height of boats generally. the Faircraft Loynes ones in particular seem to get higher and higher as do some of the Barnes ones too (particularly with the lawn chairs on the roof)  

[Oddfellow]

There have been plenty of high boats in the past and will continue, I am sure. There are plenty of lower ones too. I doubt that anything has changed over the years, really. 

 

[donnygeoff]

Not going to quote exactly, but Dave (Dajen) said something like.....

Who researches their holiday .......

Well when my OH booked our first broads holiday some 20 odd years ago....

I RESEARCHED.....

I was dealing in lamps (that is the term that some people call bulbs, but bulbs grow in the ground, lamps are a light source, that when you click the button on the wall they illuminate)

Anyway, my research was getting 4 boxes of eight foot fluorescents out and laying them end to end in the warehouse, just to see how long a 32ft broads cruiser was....

We picked it up from Brundall, stayed at Reedham for the first night and went across Breydon the next day.... tides... ebb.... flood... no idea and no problems. Oh, and we had to come back south across breydon a few days later, ebb.... flood.... springs...neaps.... still no idea and still no problems.

My point is...WHY DO SOME PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM MAKE OTHERS THINK IT IS A BAD AND DANGEROUS PLACE, and MUST only be passaged at the exact time to make it saintly.

And if it is true that freedom and woods don't allow you to cross breydon, any other time than slack/low water.... I am one person who will not be requiring their services.