Old Broads Boats

[VetChugger]

7 hours ago, ChrisB said:

A cult figure for country lovers in the 60s. Do you recognise him.

No! Do tell please!

[ChrisB]

5 hours ago, VetChugger said:

No! Do tell please!

Jack Hargreaves.  A man of many talents but best know for "Out of Town" series.

[ranworthbreeze]

26 minutes ago, ChrisB said:

Jack Hargreaves.  A man of many talents but best know for "Out of Town" series.

I remember him from the How TV program of the mid 60's and the various documentaries he did. His pipe was always with him from what I recall.  

[JennyMorgan]

56 minutes ago, ChrisB said:

Jack Hargreaves.  A man of many talents but best know for "Out of Town" series.

Incidental to another job I had the great pleasure of meeting Jack in the studio.  To my surprise his shed had only two sides and no roof. Actually that explained how he could assemble a ten or twelve foot long fishing rod and stand it up on end in his shed. Nice old boy.

[JennyMorgan]

8 hours ago, JanetAnne said:

She's done a few miles this week!

She is coming out shortly, now facilities are opening up a bit again, for some routine maintenance and (as Griff would say) a couple of upgrades . And possibly her first trip through Mutford Lock?

 

Do you anticipate much structural work? She does look pretty good above her chines though.

[ChrisB]

40 minutes ago, ranworthbreeze said:

I remember him from the How TV program of the mid 60's and the various documentaries he did. His pipe was always with him from what I recall.  

His whole life he smoked only one tobacco: Gallagher's Honey Rub. He used to refer to maggots as "smokers bait" as he said the smell was strong enough to mask the tobacco. I later life he would not use bread paste as he said the fish could smell his hands!

He loved the Dorset Stour and Hampshire Avon

[JennyMorgan]

14 hours ago, ChrisB said:

He was a close friend of Denys Rayner and the boat is a very early Westerly.

Those early Westerlies were pretty darn useless as sailing boats! Always thought of them as being attractive though. There's one  for sale on Oulton Broad at the moment. They also built a dinghy with a lid on it called the Nimrod, another attractive boat that actually sailed well until water accumulated in the cabin, as inevitably it did, when it would attempt an alarming nose dive. The cockpit in the early models was not isolated from the cabin, as was the case with early Drascombe cruisers although, thankfully, they didn't nosedive in the same alarming manner.

I never thought of Jack as being a woman's man!

[JennyMorgan]

14 hours ago, ChrisB said:

Denys Rayner

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denys_Rayner

[LizG]

9 hours ago, BroadAmbition said:

Upgrades? did someone mention 'Upgrades' - We likes them, likes them a lot if only they didn't cost so much.

So, whatya upgrading then?   Running hot water?   Immersion tank / heater?  Heating?   Shore power?  LED lighting?   Lap dancers?

Griff

She had shore power but no running hot water or heating!!!

[JennyMorgan]

25 minutes ago, w-album said:

She had shore power but no running hot water or heating!!!

Not an aquatic caravan then! 

[ChrisB]

30 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

 

I never thought of Jack as being a woman's man!

Apparently he had great success with the ladies in his prime. He had three wives producing four sons. Lived with a Vogue executive for fifteen years whilst fathering a daughter during a six year affair with his secretary at the same time.

This was quite easy for him however, as he was a shrewd property man owning two London homes, one of which was his "Private" office.

 

[JennyMorgan]

3 minutes ago, ChrisB said:

Apparently he had great success with the ladies in his prime. He had three wives producing four sons. Lived with a Vogue executive for fifteen years whilst fathering a daughter during a six year affair with his secretary at the same time.

A glutton for punishment?

[marshman]

Pete - don't start again on your dislike of Westerleys!!! You will be drummed out of the club!! To be honest I suspect you have never actually sailed some of the bigger and later ones, have you? And they were quality boats which many could afford - we all wanted an HR but you try sailing a fin keel in the Thames Estuary!!

Actually whilst some of the early bilge keelers were a bit of a pig, as indeed were most bilge keelers, the later ones were fine and there is more to life than just the sails!!! Had and sailed a Pentland for many years but the huge advantage is you could take your family out too and stand up!! Folkboats and the like were lovely to sail, but not to live in!

 

[JennyMorgan]

2 minutes ago, marshman said:

To be honest I suspect you have never actually sailed some of the bigger and later ones, have you?

I never did. I'm going back to the 1960's, early 70's when I taught sailing and seamanship on the South Coast as well as delivering various boats. I did actually own a Nimrod, bought off a customer. He'd nose dived it and just wanted rid of it, she did sail well, I liked her. Westerlies of the time were over-built, which was no bad thing, but performance was not inspiring, at least not the ones that I sailed. I must admit to letting out a groan when the office told me that I would be sailing a Westerly, circa 1960. I always fancied an International Folkboat but that was not be. 

[marshman]

Not often think this Pete, but you would be, I think, be pleasantly surprised - I don't think their fin keelers were much different to any other similar boats. But to many, sailing was not about performance but the whole experience and if that meant standing up and taking your family, then so be it! Bilge keelers were a compromise for areas like the Thames and East Coat but even the later ones of those were a real improvement with angled keels etc etc - and they didnt fall over!!!

[JennyMorgan]

A good friend of mine had a Golden Hind bilge keeler, she was a lovely boat and it didn't need the skipper to be on a promise and the boat with a gale under its transom for it to get a shunt on. I was always a great fan of the Maurice Griffiths school of thought and his books are great favorites of mine, along with Black Sailed Traders and the Art of Coarse Sailing! 

[MauriceMynah]

4 hours ago, marshman said:

but the huge advantage is you could take your family out too and stand up!! 

MM, I must protest! The very idea that a member of the sailing fraternity has any concept of comfort and/or family life is completely misleading.

As is well known and fully documented, serious members of that strange society enjoy nothing more than getting cold, wet and living in cramped conditions. If they can add to that, living at a ridiculous angle whilst holding on to ropes for which they have odd names, their happiness is complete.

Of course they don't like Westerleys ! That smacks of having some recognition of civilised behaviour.

I have two further observations. Firstly If I ever own a sailing boat it would almost certainly be a Westerley, and secondly that someone called Maurice should have a thought, let alone a school of them.

[CambridgeCabby]

7 hours ago, ChrisB said:

Jack Hargreaves.  A man of many talents but best know for "Out of Town" series.

Often appeared on the programme “How?” which is one of the most favoured tv programmes from my youth 

 

[JennyMorgan]

47 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

I have two further observations. Firstly If I ever own a sailing boat it would almost certainly be a Westerley, and secondly that someone called Maurice should have a thought, let alone a school of them.

That there are very, very few Westerley's on the Broads surely speaks volumes! I rather fancy, for full standing headroom, a Macgregor 26, plus it sails pretty well and can take on being grounded.

https://asa.com/news/2017/07/24/cruising-boat-spotlight-macgregor-26m/

[VetChugger]

8 hours ago, ChrisB said:

Jack Hargreaves.  A man of many talents but best know for "Out of Town" series.

I did have half a suspicion that was who you were meaning and also Fyfe Robertson.

[ChrisB]

2 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

That there are very, very few Westerley's on the Broads surely speaks volumes! I rather fancy, for full standing headroom, a Macgregor 26, plus it sails pretty well and can take on being grounded.

https://asa.com/news/2017/07/24/cruising-boat-spotlight-macgregor-26m/

Crossed my mind once until I was taken aboard one by a well known Broads yard owner and boat builder. They are fine at sea with salt water. However on The Broads the water is far from clean and goes off in the ballast tanks quickly. God only knows how but the smell invades the cabin.

Apparently the person who imported them into Friesland could modify them so that you filled the tanks with fresh water from a hose and then pumped it out. The standard boat either had to be recovered or chat along at about 15 knots to clear the tanks.

Armed with this info I was, at one time, speaking to Swallow boats about ballasting with fresh water at the 2015 Southampton Show but that was just before Judith became ill again.

I have to agree with you though the Macgregor accommodation is fantastic for a 26 footer especially the double beneath the cockpit soul.

[ChrisB]

PS. Had to go and change tablet as batt failed.

The later Macgregors were also fitted with a dagger board which when fully down gives a draft of 5ft 9ins, a bit much for The Broads.

As you say they do take the ground well with board and rudders up and outboard tilted. There must be five or six at Wells  on the drying moorings. Nearly all are fitted with OBs in the 50 to 70hp range so can get back to their mooring in a hurry on a falling tide.

Not really sure what happened to Macgregor. The couple who owned the business retired and gave it to their son/ daughter/ son-in-law/ daughter-in-law who moved a highly successful business selling hundreds of the things in the US from California to Florida. New models were planned and all were given a name change but it fell flat. I am not even sure if any boats were built in the East. The UK agent was changed a number of times the last being in East Anglia I think.

[Turnoar]

In terms of sailing production cruisers witnessed on the broads with raisable keels, the Evolution 19 seemed a better sailor than the Swift and the Beneteau First (25’ish) seems nice given it can go under Potter. The Southerlys look the business in the wider market but not sure if the smallest in the range would still be too big. The Pegasus range seemed to work well too, shame they didn’t continue to develop, was it the turn of the 90s recession that sunk them?

[ChrisB]

I saw a boat produced in Poland at the last Earls Court show so that would make it January 2003. It was called an Odin, 28, I think. It was really a knock-off of the Macgregor concept, a sailer but capable of 25+ mph with a 75hp OB on the back.

However that was where the similarity ended. It was light years ahead in build quality, had a really lovely wood finish interior and a much more traditional appearance. 

They again just did not take off, I think the UK market is just too staid and stuck in a groove. They are still available in Canada where I hear they sell very well.

[JennyMorgan]

30 minutes ago, Turnoar said:

The Pegasus range seemed to work well too, shame they didn’t continue to develop, was it the turn of the 90s recession that sunk them

Kevin Taylor, Pegasus Yachts, told me his biggest competitor was himself, too many second hand boats out there.