Sailies-which Way?

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Bobdog said:

Nice to see the spirit of friendliness and co-operation is alive and well.

It is or at least it shoud be and it works both ways too or  at least it should do , its up to both disciplines to be reasonable not just one 

 

[Guest]

You've obviously found a pillock or two Ricardo, I'm happy to say I've never encountered them myself thankfully.

I have generally always had a helpful signal if needed and always reply with a grateful acknowledgment.

Sent from the Norfolk Broads Network mobile app

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, Jayfire said:

You've obviously found a pillock or two Ricardo, I'm happy to say I've never encountered them myself thankfully.

I have generally always had a helpful signal if needed and always reply with a grateful acknowledgment.

Sent from the Norfolk Broads Network mobile app
 

Yes unfortunately I have experienced a few , I prefer to call them talentless , they are in the minority really and being able to sail I can easily recognise where they will most likely go next and when which works for those that recognise there are others about and not only is it pretty rude to disturb them when they are doing their up most to keep clear , but its pretty bad seamanship to do so without any other reason than power gives way to sail , tgw last one that really wound me up was between reedham and brundall while I was towing 2 yachts , I'd clearance from BA to do such had a flashing amber light and on my side of the river and yes I  have insurance to do this . , didn't stop a sailboat challenging me n sail right I front of me for no reason what so ever , he could have tacked short with no problem and the river is quite wide in that area and he was at speed so no problem with manoeuvring where I was restricted , long story short I had to stop and that took some time but I dare not put my faith in his ability , he passed close to my bow while I was vitually stationary , I honesty believe had I not anticipated his arrogance there would have been a collision , it was completely unnessasery to sail like that and impede someone regardless of who has right over who not that I believe he had given the situation .

That said most don't sail in that manner , most wave too in fact I had one lady last week by coldham hall I thought her arm was going to fall of she waved that much n nope I didn't know them . 

[Baitrunner]

I think I must have met all the same pillocks as Ricardo then. 

In all my time cruising the Broads not once has a sailie indicated a direction or acknowledged when I have taken evasive action or slowed down  

I really want to clarify the point Ricardo has made in collision avoidance. It's joint responsibility. And sail DOES NOT have right of way over power. I think too many people think this is the case. 

Personally I just slow down, hug the bank and make my move past the stern of the sailie once they make their tack. 

As to the comment about beccles yacht club. We almost had an incident there a few years ago when the kids where out practicing. We held off until signalled by the safety boat to proceed and he had the little darlings all on one side of the river. Then one darted across in front of us with me doing an emergency stop. Boy did the kid get a telling off and I got a wave of apology. The one and only time though. 

[Poppy]

It would appear that some may benefit from reading ( or having another read of ) The Broads Navigation Bylaws 1995.

[JennyMorgan]

Just now, Poppy said:

It would appear that some may benefit from reading ( or having another read of ) The Broads Navigation Bylaws 1995.

Indeed, on both sides of the fence!

[quo vadis]

Just now, Poppy said:

It would appear that some may benefit from reading ( or having another read of ) The Broads Navigation Bylaws 1995.

It wouldn't hurt for a few armchair admirals to brush up on COLREGs either 

[JennyMorgan]

Just now, quo vadis said:

It wouldn't hurt for a few armchair admirals to brush up on COLREGs either 

On the Broads, in accordance with the Colregs, local regs take precedence. That there are variations is sometimes behind the confusion.

[Poppy]

Just now, quo vadis said:

It wouldn't hurt for a few armchair admirals to brush up on COLREGs either 

Page 1of the said bylaws specifically disapplies the Collision regulations, a fact which has been pointed out many times here and elsewhere. Could that be the source of confusion ?

[quo vadis]

2 minutes ago, Poppy said:

Page 1of the said bylaws specifically disapplies the Collision regulations, a fact which has been pointed out many times here and elsewhere. Could that be the source of confusion ?

There's no confusion it is the responsibility of the master of any vessel to prevent a collision and take evasive action to prevent loss of life or damage to any vessel it's all there for a reason and applied and understood internationally 

[Baitrunner]

59 minutes ago, Poppy said:

Page 1of the said bylaws specifically disapplies the Collision regulations, a fact which has been pointed out many times here and elsewhere. Could that be the source of confusion ?

I'd be interested to know what page 1 says? I can't be bothered to google it as I am sure someone knows it verbatim. 

Seriously though this applies on a tidal river with potential commercial (yes we know there isn't any) traffic?

if it is the case then another hats off to the man who approved that 

[JennyMorgan]

Page one say . . . . . . . .http://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/399230/Navigation_Byelaws_1995-1.pdf

Now no one has an excuse for not knowing!

[Timbo]

So if I'm reading this right JM, if I'm proceeding along the river and I spy a yacht coming towards me, according to Section 12 2 b I do not make minor adjustments to my course and speed to try and match his tacking and slip behind him, but I do (Section 12 2 a) make my maneuver to avoid the tacking yacht clearly observable by the yacht.  I keep to the right of the channel (Section 13) and (Section 12 3) stop engine or reverse if needed at which point my vessel becomes restricted in its ability to manoeuvre at which point the yacht (Section 23 1b ii) has to get out of my way?  Unless of course, it's a nice chap in a Drascombe?

[Hockham Admiral]

6 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

Page one say . . . . . . . .http://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/399230/Navigation_Byelaws_1995-1.pdf

Now no one has an excuse for not knowing!

Well that's that, then, Peter!

Do the boatyards provide copies of all this? Do privateers have copies? Does anyone take the time to try to decipher it all?

I doubt it.

[TheQ]

Here's my comments,

1, There are idiots on both sides.

2, Even in a sailing regatta, all the sailing boats going through don't belong to the regatta.

3, As with the motorboats, Not all the sailing boats are crewed by local people with local knowledge of the rules or are used to sailing with anything other than competitors on their stretch of water and if they've only sailed out on a huge lake or the Sea they really are struggling...

4, When sailing on the helm or as crew, if the wind is too strong, you have no spare hands to direct or to wave back.

5, When sailing all day you really can get really  P*****d off with every motorboat expecting you to wave back..

6, I often see motor boats over reacting to a sailing boat approaching, that is the Motorboat is expecting the sailor to turn away 10 ft away, the sailing boat is expecting to turn 10 inches away...

7, I also have a motor boat and have never had a problem going, through others sailing on their own or another regatta. But this is because having sailed for many years, I can often see what they are going to do next, long before they decide to do it.. it's a matter of experience..

 

 

[Vaughan]

8 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

Page one say . . . . . . . .http://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/399230/Navigation_Byelaws_1995-1.pdf

I used to have to be able to recite Colregs by heart, to pass exams, and I can't see anything here that conflicts.

Unless I missed it?

A sailing vessel, as the right of way vessel, must keep its course and speed, but we all know that's not possible on the Bure! I couldn't find a rule that covers the subject of tacking, so I guess it remains a matter of everyone's common sense and courtesy.

[Vaughan]

11 hours ago, Baitrunner said:

Personally I just slow down, hug the bank and make my move past the stern of the sailie once they make their tack. 

So do I.

In principle, never cross the bow of a sailing boat as, if he gets a sudden gust, he will speed up.

[Gracie]

I know I joke about the Sailies and running to the cabin when one appears etc but really never had any problems. I am one of those holiday makers that wave frantically to most boats in the friendliest possible way, the waving and banter can add to an already fantastic holiday but one of the many things I've learned is never wave to a Sailie unless they wave first because nine times out of ten you won't get a wave back and you go on your way thinking what a miserable *** .

I have witnessed some of what Jean and Ricardo have pointed out but as I said not personally had any problems, im indoors is quite a presence at six foot and a gym user, perhaps that's why lol, joking aside the Broads is there for all of us to enjoy and obey the rules so let's just get on and do it

 

Grace

 

[addicted]

Obviously there are all types of sailing people out there. Sadly the majority of those we've met are the arrogant types that make things as difficult as possible. There are those that acknowledge a considerate manoeuvre we' ve come across a few of  these , very few unfortunately.I' he often wondered how many of them actually know that they don't have carte Blanche right of way just because they're under sail.

 

 

Carole

[Paladin]

Neither the ColRegs nor the Navigation Byelaws use the expression "right of way". When two vessels meet, one is the Give-Way Vessel, the other is the Stand-on Vessel. In the case of a sailing vessel meeting a motor vessel, sometimes the sailing vessel will be the Stand-On vessel and sometimes it'll be the Give-Way Vessel. Regular users of the waterways, whether hirers or owners, should know the difference.

Talking about rights of way merely perpetuates the confusion.

[quo vadis]

Just now, Paladin said:

Neither the ColRegs nor the Navigation Byelaws use the expression "right of way". When two vessels meet, one is the Give-Way Vessel, the other is the Stand-on Vessel. In the case of a sailing vessel meeting a motor vessel, sometimes the sailing vessel will be the Stand-On vessel and sometimes it'll be the Give-Way Vessel. Regular users of the waterways, whether hirers or owners, should know the difference.

Talking about rights of way merely perpetuates the confusion.

Very well put Paladin 

[Poppy]

Just now, Paladin said:

Neither the ColRegs nor the Navigation Byelaws use the expression "right of way". When two vessels meet, one is the Give-Way Vessel, the other is the Stand-on Vessel. In the case of a sailing vessel meeting a motor vessel, sometimes the sailing vessel will be the Stand-On vessel and sometimes it'll be the Give-Way Vessel. Regular users of the waterways, whether hirers or owners, should know the difference.

Talking about rights of way merely perpetuates the confusion.

(1) Subject to the requirements of Byelaw 15:
(a) The master of a power-driven vessel underway shall keep
his vessel out of the way of:  
(i) a vessel not under command;  
(ii) a vessel restricted in its ability to manoeuvre;  
(iii) a sailing vessel;  
(iv) a quanted vessel. "

 

Seems clear enough.

[quo vadis]

Just now, Poppy said:

(1) Subject to the requirements of Byelaw 15:
(a) The master of a power-driven vessel underway shall keep
his vessel out of the way of:  
(i) a vessel not under command;  
(ii) a vessel restricted in its ability to manoeuvre;  
(iii) a sailing vessel;  
(iv) a quanted vessel. "

 

Seems clear enough.

How can you keep out of the way of a vessel under the command of a xxxx who does not know where he is going?

collision evasion is the responsibility of both masters 

seems clear enough 

[vanessan]

If private boat (sail and motor) owners can debate regs in such depth, it is not surprising there is so much confusion particularly for newbies! 

[Poppy]

Just now, quo vadis said:

How can you keep out of the way of a vessel under the command of a xxxx who does not know where he is going?

 

I regularly wonder that when sailing......