Bad Form

[Chelsea14Ian]

Over the last few days we have seen boats hired and private,flying the Union flag.One boat(hired)flying the Red Ensign.

[MauriceMynah]

Yes, I know it's wrong but I think I prefer them flying  that to flying the Scull & crossed bones, or worse, their laundry. 

[vanessan]

What is wrong with a hirer flying a red ensign? I ask this in all sincerity as I don't understand why it should be a problem. 

[MauriceMynah]

No problem at all, It's flying the Union flag (or Union Jack ) that's considered bad form.

[Londonlad1985]

Flag etiquette. Love It!

Sent from the Norfolk Broads Network mobile app

[ChrisB]

47 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

Yes, I know it's wrong but I think I prefer them flying  that to flying the Scull & crossed bones, or worse, their laundry. 

Like the Cannabis Reggae Ensign

Over the years the Broadland area has grown quite a few crops.

[vanessan]

I have seen the new NYA hire boats, Moneypenny and Cover Girl, with red ensigns presumably provided by the hire company. 

[Chelsea14Ian]

The union flag becomes the Union Jack,once it's on a Royal Navy  Ship.The Red Ensign  is on private boats .

[Victoryv]

25 minutes ago, Londonlad1985 said:

Flag etiquette. Love It!

Sent from the Norfolk Broads Network mobile app
 

to separate the riffraff, dear boy !

[Chelsea14Ian]

Yes that would have been put on by NYA.Not hire slight deference  charter.Some Wherries will also fly the Red Ensign. Some of which a chartered 

 

 

 

[Guest]

Back in the late 60's and 70's Ernest Collins "Emblem" hire craft all used to have  a red ensign on the transom

[marshman]

The wherries  will not have been chartered without their crew so those on board will only be mere passengers!

Never seen one on Albion though!!

[vanessan]

Chartered is only another word for hired surely? Where is it stated that only private boats can fly red ensigns? I'm not meaning to be argumentative, I am genuinely interested. 

[JennyMorgan]

1 hour ago, MauriceMynah said:

Yes, I know it's wrong but I think I prefer them flying  that to flying the Scull & crossed bones, or worse, their laundry. 

Some laundry can be quite fetching, so long as there are no skid marks!! 

[JennyMorgan]

When one considers what the British merchant fleets endured during both world wars then being able to fly the same Red Ensign that they sailed under is surely a great privilege,  one that really we should all uphold and be proud to do so.   

[CambridgeCabby]

Russell craft used to fly Red Ensigns from their hire craft , and the first thing I bought (years ago) was a Red Ensign and mast and used to fly if from hire craft , Kate and I always said one day we would buy the rest of the boat , finally did !!!

[Chelsea14Ian]

I cant see the point of hire craft flying the Red Ensign. If you hire a boat and want to fly a flag fly your county or town flag.

[JennyMorgan]

8 minutes ago, Chelsea14Ian said:

I cant see the point of hire craft flying the Red Ensign. If you hire a boat and want to fly a flag fly your county or town flag.

But why not a Red Ensign? 

[JamesLV]

I asked a similar question a while back:

 

[Timbo]

A lot of folks seem to get the flag etiquette thing a bit wrong. Admittedly it can be a bit confusing. Following hours, days and weeks of argument with Uncle Albert and several weeks of letter writing to various organisations from the RYA to the Admiralty I can give you the definitive UNCLE ALBERT's GUIDE TO FLAGS ON BOATS.

This guide is primarily aimed at folks on motor cruisers on the Norfolk Broads, whether owner or hirer. Saily types...you are asking for trouble with all that cloth and bits of string you can sort yourselves out!  

On Motor Cruisers there are three places that flags are flown. The Bow, The Mast and The Stern.

Starting from the stern. This is where you fly your Ensign. ANY BRITISH CITIZEN IS ALLOWED TO FLY THE RED ENSIGN. It doesn't matter if you own the boat, have chartered the boat or have hired the boat. The Foreign Office actively encourage British Nationals to fly the red ensign rather than the Union Flag when abroad. It makes it easier for armed forces etc to mount rescues!

There are other ensigns. These are blue, light blue and white. There are also red, blue, light blue and white ensigns that have badges on them. To put it simply, unless you are a lieutenant in the Royal Navy or Royal Navy Reserves (active) or a captain or above in any other service or are a member of a very high falutin yacht club you don't have permission to fly one of these flags. Wearing one of these flags without permission is a breach of both international and British law. There is a FINE of £1000 for doing so!

  So what about flags of other nations on the stern of your boat? If you are a citizen of another country and own your boat, then wear the flag of your nation. If you have hired your boat...no. It is the red ensign of the company that owns the boat that you fly.

What about the flags of the other countries of the United Kingdom? No. Fly a Scottish flag and you are signalling that 'my vessel is stopping and cannot make way through the water'. The St Patrick's Cross is a distress signal and means 'I need assistance'. So what about the welsh flag or flag of St George? This means you are an Admiral and the flag must not be flown without permission. £1000 fine again.

The Union Flag or Jack. Only flown in certain circumstances from the bow of a Royal Navy ship or if the Queen is onboard. Chances are Liz and Phil won't be cruising the Broads on your boat any time soon.

There are rules as to how and when to fly your ensign. Your ensign should be pristine and not tatty, and certainly not dragging in the water! This is considered to be insulting, better to have no flag than one in tatters! Fly your ensign from dawn until dusk and then bring it in again.

So moving forward, usually in the middle of your boat is a little mast. This is divided into three. The top middle, the port and the starboard to make it easy. The top middle is where your burgee is flown. However, most private boats will have their navigation light on top of this mast so we have to move it to another position.

We have the port side of the mast and we have the starboard side of the mast. The port side is where you put your burgees from various clubs and associations. The higher up and nearer to the top of the mast the more important the association is. In Royal Tudor's case, on the top is the Royal Yacht Association Burgee followed by the glorious, stylish and very reasonably priced NBN burgee* The starboard side is for flying signal flags from like Griff's gin flag! 

Moving to the bow of the boat this is where the jack staff resides. Here you will fly your 'house flag' or if you are the Royal Navy and the Queen is on board, the Union Jack. In Royal Tudor's case here she flies the Royal's Boatyard Flag under which she was first constructed. Nigel Royall very kindly gave us permission to fly the original flag as he does on his own boat. Unlike the more familiar yellow crown on a red background or field, the original Royall's flag was a yellow circle on a green background.

3 hours ago, MauriceMynah said:

Yes, I know it's wrong but I think I prefer them flying  that to flying the Scull & crossed bones, or worse, their laundry. 

So what about MM's skull and cross bones? Contrary to popular belief what it means is...this vessel is abandoned help yourself to anything that takes your fancy.

Yes flag etiquette is a boring subject unless you are a geek like me, Uncle Albert or Sheldon

...and for most people, it's just a bit of fun. However, you can unintentionally genuinely offend some people. I know Uncle Albert used to be really upset if a flag was shown disrespect...God forbid flown upside down, never hear the end of it. Also be aware that the Norfolk and Suffolk Broads can be accessed by sea going vessels and those from other countries who might just respond if you are flying a distress flag by mistake!

Having found a whole collection of flags Uncle Albert 'half inched' from various RN ships I'm toying with what to do with his collection?

*Available from the NBN!

[Wonderwall]

Look on the bright side folks. If your worried about what peeps are flying what flag from what boat, then you ain't really got much to worry about . 

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, Wonderwall said:

Look on the bright side folks. If your worried about what peeps are flying what flag from what boat, then you ain't really got much to worry about . 

Exactly 

[trambo]

40 minutes ago, Wonderwall said:

Look on the bright side folks. If your worried about what peeps are flying what flag from what boat, then you ain't really got much to worry about . 

Certainly not worried but why not just do things correctly? If your going to fly a flag(s) have some thought about it and show your pride in doing so.

Fred

[Chelsea14Ian]

My point does it matter perhaps not.However when we got our first boat.Little Kingfisher.One of the first things I did was to get an SSR and have done so also with Sweetkingfisher. 

[Viking23]

My son visited Gibraltar a few years back, and bought me a Red ensign.

However, I said to him, as I was not a resident of Gibralter, or a visitor from Gibralter, it would be wrong to fly this on a GB owned private cruiser in GB?

Was I right? 

Richard