Thorpe Green Gunboat

[PaulM]

Does anyone know the circumstances that lead to the boat ending up on the bottom of Jenner’s Basin on Thorpe Island?

i know it was a house boat after the war for the Hearts Cruisers family and is in many photos of the site

The photo below suggests that it was due to leave (guessing early 90’s?)

 

[PaulM]

Other than very early pics I can only find ones as it sits now

Correct me if it’s not the same boat but if it is it looks to have been in this place for some time

[marshman]

Ask Vaughan! He knows all about it!!

But yes the 2nd photo sadly shows where she ended up!!

[PaulM]

Thanks marshman. Calling Vaughan then!

[Stationerystill]

It sunk and is in the basin opposite the Town House Hotel.

[trambo]

When passing earlier this year it could be clearly seen  but can not see it being visible, at least above the waterline for many more years. I have a great sense of regret and sadness when I see her now but that must pale with what Vaughan feels.

Fred

[PaulM]

I’m sorry for my ignorance but how is Vaughan linked. Also apologies is this brings up bad feelings for anyone directly involved. I live locally and am interested in the history of the area.

[unclemike]

vaughan is  son of hearts family, brought up on board

[PaulM]

12 minutes ago, chameleon said:

vaughan is  son of hearts family, brought up on board

Thanks Chameleon, it must be very sad for him to see it as it lays. I would be interested to know it’s history through it’s later years though if anyone knows.

[marshman]

Paul - Vaughan lived on the boat in his early years ( don't ask me how early!) and ran Hearts cruisers for sometime from that yard.

The whole area on Thorpe Island was involved in a difficult planning issue for many years and culminated a few years ago, and it led to a protracted dispute with many people in area taking sides with either the planning authority, the BA, or the landowner and I think it still rankles with some people involved. It was all a bit sad at the time with a huge amount of acrimonious debate with it finally ending in issues through the Courts - it involved a substantial amount of posts here and other Forums and rather than bring it up here, it may be easier to look at through other local sources. With you being local, I am sure there are many involved who will fill you in over a pint, or several! The whole issue went on for years and years and I suspect as a local person, you are well aware of some of them - talk to one of the boatowners for a drink in the Buck - or has that gone now???

None of this actually affects Evening Flight which was moved upstream into the basin many years ago to finally rot away - that type of craft was not built for longevity and few now survive - one similar that does is kept preserved at Lowestoft by a charitable Trust. See here 

http://mtb102.com/

[PaulM]

Thanks Marshman, that pretty much fills in the gaps on the history of the boat.

I was aware of the recent planning issues with the current owner of the site but little else. 

[annv]

Two lads bought it to do a full restoration, but the B A refused them a permit to sail it away to get it lifted  out , so there it sits. John

[PaulM]

23 minutes ago, annv said:

Two lads bought it to do a full restoration, but the B A refused them a permit to sail it away to get it lifted  out , so there it sits. John

The two lads in the photo I presume. What a shame. 

[JennyMorgan]

It gets dafter in that planning conditions, after the last planning furour, require that all boats are to be removed from the lagoon. Presumably that excludes sunk boats.

[LizG]

6 hours ago, marshman said:

 Evening Flight

Correction the GB was Morning Flight - Evening Flight is Sailing Cruiser Class no 2 which Vaughan's parents owned

[JennyMorgan]

3 hours ago, w-album said:

Correction the GB was Morning Flight - Evening Flight is Sailing Cruiser Class no 2 which Vaughan's parents owned

And is now being very thoroughly rebuilt by Jamie Campbell at the Excelsior Yard on Lake Lothing.

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

1 hour ago, JennyMorgan said:

And is now being very thoroughly rebuilt by Jamie Campbell at the Excelsior Yard on Lake Lothing.

Is that the training college Peter?.

[JennyMorgan]

1 minute ago, SPEEDTRIPLE said:

Is that the training college Peter?.

No, next door yard. Excelsior as in the sail-training restored ex Lowestoft sailing trawler.

http://www.theexcelsiortrust.co.uk/our-ship/excelsior-lt472

[C.Ricko]

On 27/07/2019 at 16:05, annv said:

Two lads bought it to do a full restoration, but the B A refused them a permit to sail it away to get it lifted  out , so there it sits. John

If i remember correctly we sold it to a Naval museum who raised it by wrapping her in polythene then decided it was a bad idea so passed it on to someone else, the BA told them they needed insurance before it could be taken onto the main river. 

 

[JennyMorgan]

7 minutes ago, C.Ricko said:

If i remember correctly we sold it to a Naval museum who raised it by wrapping her in polythene then decided it was a bad idea so passed it on to someone else, the BA told them they needed insurance before it could be taken onto the main river. 

 

A wise move by the BA. Had the wreck sunk whilst on passage then I rather suspect that her removal would have been quite costly and subsequently a burden on the toll payer. 

[Wussername]

It is my belief that if the Morning Flight, an iconic boat of historical significance and local affection and importance had it been allowed to remain at Thorpe St Andrew it would have served as a standard for others to follow. A standard for others to emulate, to complement the beautiful background to one of the most attractive village greens to be found in Norfolk. 

 

With foresight it should have been protected and its surroundings likewise to preserve that which was held dear by the people of Thorpe St Andrew and indeed visitors from Norwich and the local area.

 

There are good people on the island, Take a pride in their homes.  Some it would seem quite content to live in depravity. It is the latter that needs to be addressed, not insurmountable. It just needs understanding and a willingness by the residents and the authorities to recognise the issues and act in a positive manner to bring back the River Green to its former glory.

 

Andrew

[Vaughan]

8 hours ago, Wussername said:

With foresight it should have been protected and its surroundings likewise to preserve that which was held dear by the people of Thorpe St Andrew and indeed visitors from Norwich and the local area.

 

This is what the view from Thorpe Green used to look like in the 1950s and 60s.  The first one shows the hire fleet on a Saturday in August, 1955, and was taken by Fred Low, who was resident photographer for Coes of Norwich.  He was well known and liked, as he also took all the society wedding photos around the county in those days!

I suggest to Paul and other new members that they might like to have a look at the history section of the forum, where there is a thread called "Vaughan's memories", started by our dear departed friend JillR, and where he may find the answers to most of his questions. There are also two ciné films taken by my mother, which show what the boatyard was like, and life on the island as it was then.  This is where the forum can provide such a valuable archive of history and other information, in a way that facebook never can.

[grendel]

the topic mentioned above is here -

 

[PaulM]

Thanks for the link, very interesting read.

I spot another boat in the thread that is now sadly beyond salvage.

8 years between the photos

 

[Vaughan]

On 27/07/2019 at 11:31, marshman said:

a huge amount of acrimonious debate with it finally ending in issues through the Courts - it involved a substantial amount of posts here and other Forums and rather than bring it up here,

But you did bring it up here! You are quite right though - it still rankles, including among planning professionals whose advice was either ignored or glossed over.

I am afraid the photo below is a classic example of the political biais displayed by the BA and others at the time.

20 hours ago, PaulM said:

 

This boat was moored, right opposite Jenners Basin, at the time when the BA invoked Norwich City Council (whose officers never consulted their own council) to declare that the bottom of the river Yare is owned by NCC under some ancient statute and therefore boats are not allowed to moor on the river bank in Thorpe.  This was a deliberate and underhand attempt to stop boats mooring on the Island frontage and not only was it historically untrue but it totally ignores the existence of Wards, Jenners and Harts boatyards, one of whom had existed on that reach of the river for over 150 years and another for 100 years. It also ignores the existence of the public staithe at the River Green.

But some of those worthies who live in grand houses on the Yarmouth Rd with lawns on the river front have far better political connections with authority, it would seem, than the owner of the land on the Island, who suffered deliberate persecution for 11 years. So this boat was allowed to remain on its mooring, right opposite. Now that it has sunk, it must be removed by BA as an obstruction to the navigation.

Or is underhand politics still at work here? Now that the BA have given up their lease on the River Green and sat back while the Town Council have closed off the public staithe to public access, is this a sign that the BA no longer regard Thorpe reach as a legal navigation and therefore feel no need to maintain it in future?

Perhaps our new member "Broads Authority", whom I welcome for his participation, could give us some guidance on this?