Are You Loyal?

[floydraser]

12 hours ago, LondonGuy said:

Are you all very loyal to the broads or have you tried other U.K. waterways?

If so, how do they compare?

All? No, but it'll do until Ernie picks out my number then I'll be having a look around. It's a great place but there are loads of great places so I try to see a few of them as long I am blessed with good health.

Rutland Water is where I had my first boat. How does it compare? Closer to home. Boat stored on a trailer so had to launch every time I wanted to use it. Fishermen have priority and take great delight when bored and catching f-all, in firing up the outboard and stopping on your heading to force you to change direction. Deeper; 13 metres in one place. I used to try and find it with the depth sounder!

The main appeal of East Anglia is the people; there are two kinds: those who are outgoing and friendly, and those who are introverted and friendly. The latter are just harder work. It's therefore a great place to visit, Broads or not.

We still have a week's holiday in Keswick (Her Majesty's Lake District) at least once a year and while the scenery etc. is perfect, trying to get "Good morning" out someone is like pulling teeth!

[OldBerkshireBoy]

57 minutes ago, floydraser said:

We still have a week's holiday in Keswick (Her Majesty's Lake District) at least once a year and while the scenery etc. is perfect, trying to get "Good morning" out someone is like pulling teeth!

That might be something to do with you wearing your " I Luv The Norfolk Braods" T-shirt mate. 

[JennyMorgan]

7 minutes ago, OldBerkshireBoy said:

trying to get "Good morning" out someone is like pulling teeth!

Especially after twelve o'clock! They are very pedantic north of Sutton Bridge.

[OldBerkshireBoy]

15 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Especially after twelve o'clock! They are very pedantic north of Sutton Bridge.

Err, don`t know how you managed that JM but somebody else said that not me.

[rightsaidfred]

Although the Broads is our first love and where we have come every year and it is our second home with the boat here we have also done the Thames many times, while it is totally different it also has a beauty of its own and well worth doing, I dont think it is a case of loyalty but more of finances, if they allow for the Broads and other destinations go for it.

Fred 

[ranworthbreeze]

Maybe the topic should be renamed the Broads is the cheapest waterway in the country rather than are you loyal.

Just a thought!

Regards

Alan

[Paul]

Am I loyal, yes I hope I am, to those things that deserve my loyalty. 

As for the broads I'm not sure you would call that loyalty. Affection maybe, certainly that. Nostalgia, definitely in fact I sometimes wonder if it's largely nostalgia that keeps us coming back. Sometime we will visit somewhere and there is more than a tinge of sadness in how that place has developed, some places are simply not as nice now as they once were. 

As for other waterways we have tried several, all are different, each has it's different characteristic and we like others just as much as the broads. We tend to visit the broads more simply because there are so many places, and people that we like to see each year. 

If I absolutely had to nominate a favourite waterway it would probably be the Caledonian Canal. 

[JennyMorgan]

If I had to nominate my favorite waterway then it would be the swatchways & backwaters of the Suffolk & Essex coast. However, life has dictated otherwise. Jobs and family have a lot to answer for so the Broads, being my home, is where I do my boating and I'm content with that. 

[OldBerkshireBoy]

38 minutes ago, ranworthbreeze said:

Maybe the topic should be renamed the Broads is the cheapest waterway in the country rather than are you loyal.

Just a thought!

Regards

Alan

With respect I don`t think cost has come in to it (yet) Alan. However I`m pretty sure there might be another thread where comparisons where made.

[oldgregg]

41 minutes ago, ranworthbreeze said:

Maybe the topic should be renamed the Broads is the cheapest waterway in the country rather than are you loyal.

It's certainly that. I can remember paying £1200 for a short break in September on the canals a couple of years ago, and paying around £400 for pretty much the same dates this year on the Broads.

The canal boat was much newer (although nothing particularly posh), and the Broads boat was an AF38 out of Ricko's classic fleet - but that's still an enormous cost difference.

[ranworthbreeze]

10 minutes ago, oldgregg said:

It's certainly that. I can remember paying £1200 for a short break in September on the canals a couple of years ago, and paying around £400 for pretty much the same dates this year on the Broads.

The canal boat was much newer (although nothing particularly posh), and the Broads boat was an AF38 out of Ricko's classic fleet - but that's still an enormous cost difference.

Hello oldgregg,

Long gone are the days we used to pay £60.00 (all in including fuel) for an out of season 4 day weekend on a Barringtons Narrowboat out of their marina just above Stenson lock on the Trent & Mersey it was £300 per week in the hight of season for a week plus fuel & security deposits. A few years ago in May on the Scottish Canals it cost us £1800 plus for a week on a 6 berth narrow boat.

Regards

Alan

 

[Guest]

Before moving to the Broads we had, for 9yrs, a Norman 23 on the Lancaster Canal at Garstang, a beautiful and little used canal with 40 odd miles of lock free cruising. (we're the 3rd boat up on the right).

[Guest Jayfire]

2 hours ago, KatieR said:

Will I come again? Most definitely. 

I certainly hope so, and you still have lot's more pubs yet to try. Not sure how you're going to manage that though as your boat never moves unlike mine 

[oldgregg]

1 hour ago, ranworthbreeze said:

Long gone are the days we used to pay £60.00 (all in including fuel) for an out of season 4 day weekend on a Barringtons Narrowboat out of their marina just above Stenson lock on the Trent & Mersey it was £300 per week in the hight of season for a week plus fuel & security deposits. A few years ago in May on the Scottish Canals it cost us £1800 plus for a week on a 6 berth narrow boat.

 

I have no idea what the margins are on canals, but it's a very different business model to the Broads for sure.

For anyone not having done canals, the fleet ages might surprise. The big operators run boats for four years before selling them on.

The spec is acceptable but relatively simple, with hulls in standard lengths to accommodate the number of modular cabins required. Each cabin's fitout is from a standard kit, so a double cabin on all boats has a standard set of factory-made parts, as does a galley, a saloon etc.

For more berths you simply buy the next size hull up which is designed to fit the extra set of parts for a double cabin, bunks, washroom or whatever it might be.

A 4+2 berth goes for about £42K once it has done its four years. Obviously, the interiors are very much IKEA quality and won't last forever but at that sort of price for a fairly new boat you can't really expect them to.

I would imagine the shells are probably not built to the usual spec either. Canal boats have a much shorter life than Broads cruisers because obviously steel rusts and aluminium, stainless etc don't particularly suit the use. You can over-plate but it's expensive and old narrowboats don't fetch a lot of money.

[JennyMorgan]

2 hours ago, ranworthbreeze said:

Maybe the topic should be renamed the Broads is the cheapest waterway in the country

But is it? Compared with other waters where a toll is charged it is certainly cheaper than some until you take the toll and then divide it by the navigable miles, and consider too that our toll doesn't pay for numerous bridges, aqueducts, tunnels and locks, thankfully. On top of that I have never paid a toll on a number of East Coast Rivers. Consider too the costs of boats on the Broads when compared with other waterways, again and again I hear or read that boats are cheaper elsewhere.  

[Polly]

We came to the Broads and discovered sailing. We owned a boat on the Nene, and had many other boating holidays on the canals. Last year we had a Thames holiday and most years we make it to the Lake District. 
Of all these, the Broads has been the most rewarding. 

[OldBerkshireBoy]

1 hour ago, oldgregg said:

I have no idea what the margins are on canals, but it's a very different business model to the Broads for sure.

For anyone not having done canals, the fleet ages might surprise. The big operators run boats for four years before selling them on.

The spec is acceptable but relatively simple, with hulls in standard lengths to accommodate the number of modular cabins required. Each cabin's fitout is from a standard kit, so a double cabin on all boats has a standard set of factory-made parts, as does a galley, a saloon etc.

For more berths you simply buy the next size hull up which is designed to fit the extra set of parts for a double cabin, bunks, washroom or whatever it might be.

A 4+2 berth goes for about £42K once it has done its four years. Obviously, the interiors are very much IKEA quality and won't last forever but at that sort of price for a fairly new boat you can't really expect them to.

I would imagine the shells are probably not built to the usual spec either. Canal boats have a much shorter life than Broads cruisers because obviously steel rusts and aluminium, stainless etc don't particularly suit the use. You can over-plate but it's expensive and old narrowboats don't fetch a lot of money.

Privately owned narrow boats are different though aren`t they. Properly built and fitted out with non IKEA quality fit outs.

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, KatieR said:

Ah the Lancaster canal is beautiful- lovely pics Jemaki. I lived in Garstang for a couple of years, so very familiar territory

Loved Garstang, great pubs (7 altogether within a five minute walk)and friendly people, and even today its difficult to pay more than £2.50 for a pint!

[SwanR]

So a slight aside, but I have looked from time to time at the canals but not had the confidence to want to book anything. Is the Lancaster canal enough to do a few days holiday? Lock free cruising is what I would be looking for. 

[WherryNice]

The Broads have pretty much always been a part of my life and unless I win big on the lotto it's the only waterway that I would own a boat on. However I do rather fancy hiring on the Scottish Lochs and the Thames but narrowboats hold very little appeal.

We did have a run on the Great Ouse from St Ives to Earith earlier this year which was ok but I didn't get that same feeling that I do on the Broads. 

 

 

[YnysMon]

I think it probably is Jean. I’ve watched YouTube videos by Foxes Afloat and The Minimal List on the Lancaster canal. Of course they accessed it via the Ribble Link, but once they were there it seemed that there were a lot of boaters making that their home base. 

[OldBerkshireBoy]

20 minutes ago, SwanR said:

So a slight aside, but I have looked from time to time at the canals but not had the confidence to want to book anything. Is the Lancaster canal enough to do a few days holiday? Lock free cruising is what I would be looking for. 

Yes, but not solo.

[SwanR]

2 minutes ago, OldBerkshireBoy said:

Yes, but not solo

If I was ever solo, even on the Broads, I would be asking the boatyard to moor me up on the end of a quay, plug me into the electric and just spend a week watching everyone go by!!

[OldBerkshireBoy]

16 minutes ago, SwanR said:

If I was ever solo, even on the Broads, I would be asking the boatyard to moor me up on the end of a quay, plug me into the electric and just spend a week watching everyone go by!!

Just saying, of course it can be done not recommended for the inexperienced though.

[RS2021]

16 hours ago, oldgregg said:

For anyone not having done canals, the fleet ages might surprise. The big operators run boats for four years before selling them on.

The spec is acceptable but relatively simple, with hulls in standard lengths to accommodate the number of modular cabins required. Each cabin's fitout is from a standard kit, so a double cabin on all boats has a standard set of factory-made parts, as does a galley, a saloon etc.

This sounds very much like the Black Prince model. I know they used to sell on their boats every four years, but I think they dropped that model when they had their last major expansion a few years back. Only ex hire boat listed for sale at the moment is 2007. ABC lists ex-hire boats of a similar vintage for sale, so it would seem the current model of those two big players is to keep boats 12-15 years. Still a lot newer than the Broads. The other big operator Anglo Welsh seems to operate on a mix on new build and second hand from both Black Prince and ABC. I've hired from Black Prince a few times and their modular design produces very practical and spacious interiors. The down side is that the boxy hulls handle like a brick. I'd recommend them to anyone thinking of the canals. 

But what is the Broads business model? It seems to be a mix of new build and second hand. If you look at Richardsons, the fleet grew to the size it did through massive expansion in 3rd party ownership. The recession in the 80s killed that and the family bought back a business with a lot of boats at - i suspect - a knock down price. They have also bought many other fleets on both the Thames and the Broads - and I'm sure those deals were done very shrewdly. It is these boats which Richardsons are able to offer at the very low prices they do. It is also these boats which are reaching the end of their hire fleet days at 40 odd years. Richardsons have also until recently been building new. These boats, unsurprisingly command much higher prices. However, in the last 11 good years they have only built 48 new boats. If you plan on keeping boats 40 years, this does not sustain a fleet of 300+ boats. The options to buy second hand are decreasing, so I can see even fewer hire boats on the Broads in the next decade or so and it will be the older and hence cheaper ones which are lost and the costs will then, sadly, look similar to the canals. Where are tomorrows older more economical boats going to come from? I don't want to see this happen and for the OP, I love both the Broads and the canals.