New Desiel Rules

[Vaughan]

6 hours ago, tjg1677 said:

May appear a bit black and white, oversimplified or I am missing something ? As anyone who served in the armed forces will tell you, there are rules clearly set down. You cross the line and break them and you most certainly did face the consequences and how! Why is this principle not applied to these half witted vandalistic hooligans. It makes me weep that we served in conflicts upholding the principles and morals of our country and we have to put up with this - no no no no no!

Absolutely Trev but don't forget that in the Forces we lived by certain standards - of pride, service and the general role of keeping the Queen's peace.

All the same, a few "boots on the ground" right now would very soon clear the public highway of obstructions!

[TheQ]

On 07/04/2022 at 13:43, OldBerkshireBoy said:

Wouldnt call it a tax, more of a burden for a captive market. Savy folk plan ahead and find a place a few miles off a motorway to refuel the car and themself at better prices. There is a website just for this.

Years ago Tesco's used to do a booklet showing all their stores, and their services. I used to travel using that to find petrol. Now I have to look online and pre research the routes..

 

[Meantime]

15 hours ago, AndyTBoater said:

Their point is that when the oil starts to run out this will be the norm. It may not be the best way to go about it but we have known things need to change and alternative fuels sourced and used in the not too distant future. Have we done anything about it?

Not really.

I'm not sure which world you live in? but in my world I see people starting to buy electric cars and hybrid cars. I drive around and see solar panels on house roofs. Keeping it on topic just about, one of Richardson's roofs is virtually completely covered in the things. Whenever I drive up to Norfolk from Essex I see more and more onshore wind generators and there is heavy investment in offshore wind generators.

It may not be happening quickly enough, but every KWh generated by those methods is a KWh not generated by burning oil, gas or coal.

So yes we have done something about it, and are continuing to do so, but arguably it could be speeded up.

Wanton destruction of property and needless disruption to peoples lives is not the answer.

[grendel]

10 minutes ago, Meantime said:

So yes we have done something about it, and are continuing to do so, but arguably it could be speeded up.

that depends a lot on which angle you are looking from, from the electricity supply angle, these things take time to build, a new power station - 25 years from planning to power, a new primary substation, 10 years (with probably a 5 year lead time on the transformers) I see whole swathes of the country that wont be able to supply the charging infrastructure due to lack of electrical supply infrastructure, huge areas dont have the spare capacity, and unusually, its not the rural areas suffering this, its town centres, city centres, all the places they really want to install the charging infrastructure the most.

I see existing developments that are in progress trying to meet the new targets, but if you have only applied to the DNO for 1100KVA of energy, thats all you will get without applying for the extra, which may not be there, imagine adding an additional 160A of charging load (111kVA) but not having that capacity available, the DNO might say, we cannot supply that at LV (430V) you will have to put in a second substation for the additional load (or uprate the transformers) additional costs, if the Load is not available at HV, you may be asked to reinforce the DNO network at a point miles away to get the capacity- this is getting more prevalent nowadays especially in london) worst case (and we have to do this in london too) is to build your own 33,000V substation, and lay 6.5km of cable to your development, I wont tell you how many millions a primary substation costs, and then there are the 10 years to build it.

will we be ready by 2025, no way. by 2030- well things  might just be starting to come online, but only if we start building today, and then there is the question, who is going to fund this, if nobody orders it, it wont even be started.

[Malanka]

I know which world I live in: it’s the one where the energy in vs energy out calculation for an ICE is under 15 years, the calculation for an EV is well into the twenties and that’s with a single battery. Estimates vary for battery life up to approx 11 years so that calculation just gets moved further to the right. Also an ICE doesn’t depend on little boys and girls in the DMRC digging up rare earth metals for peanuts. 

[Malanka]

Hydrogen powered vehicles are a far better option.

[MargeandParge]

Absolutely Malanka the only answer without destroying the planet with a battery knee jerk reaction. We can create hydrogen with sea water in countries that have all that sunshine being soaked up by sand. Let's stop mining for metals in precious agricultural and carbon soaking environments and do what we need to do. I've had me rant so back to holidays now. 

Kindest regards Marge an Parge 

[annv]

But it needs electricity to make Hydrogen the only advantage is it can be stored in containers far better to make Hydrogen from surplus wind power or any surplus power from solar etc which can then be stored until used. John

[MargeandParge]

Maybe they could make solar farms in desert areas.

Regards Marge and Parge 

[Vaughan]

18 hours ago, annv said:

Hydrogen from surplus wind power or any surplus power from solar etc which can then be stored until used.

I quite agree.

I can't see the point of wind farms to power houses, as they don't work when there's no wind!  To use them, however, for the electric supply to manufacture hydrogen from water is an excellent green, non fossil, sustainable solution.

The technology of running a car on hydrogen is basically no different to running it on Propane gas.

[rightsaidfred]

On 09/04/2022 at 12:04, grendel said:

that depends a lot on which angle you are looking from, from the electricity supply angle, these things take time to build, a new power station - 25 years from planning to power, a new primary substation, 10 years (with probably a 5 year lead time on the transformers) I see whole swathes of the country that wont be able to supply the charging infrastructure due to lack of electrical supply infrastructure, huge areas dont have the spare capacity, and unusually, its not the rural areas suffering this, its town centres, city centres, all the places they really want to install the charging infrastructure the most.

I see existing developments that are in progress trying to meet the new targets, but if you have only applied to the DNO for 1100KVA of energy, thats all you will get without applying for the extra, which may not be there, imagine adding an additional 160A of charging load (111kVA) but not having that capacity available, the DNO might say, we cannot supply that at LV (430V) you will have to put in a second substation for the additional load (or uprate the transformers) additional costs, if the Load is not available at HV, you may be asked to reinforce the DNO network at a point miles away to get the capacity- this is getting more prevalent nowadays especially in london) worst case (and we have to do this in london too) is to build your own 33,000V substation, and lay 6.5km of cable to your development, I wont tell you how many millions a primary substation costs, and then there are the 10 years to build it.

will we be ready by 2025, no way. by 2030- well things  might just be starting to come online, but only if we start building today, and then there is the question, who is going to fund this, if nobody orders it, it wont even be started.

And this is without the 10s of thousands of new flats being built across London, with no real increase in the provision for water, sewage, education or medical requirements etc. as well as power.

New house builds have already been suspended in Norfolk because a potential pollution hazard has been identified, what else is happening throughout the country.

There are far to many theorists expounding solutions with no or very little consideration for potential complications now days, anyone can sit behind a desk and devise a course of action when they don`t have to put it into practise, sadly we have a world now that is being taken over by idealists with no practical experience.

Fred

[Meantime]

3 hours ago, Vaughan said:

I can't see the point of wind farms to power houses, as they don't work when there's no wind!  

The Germans were working on a solution to that problem, but not sure how far it has progressed. It also needed the right geography. The idea was to place the wind farm on high land next to a large reservoir and also have a reservoir on lower ground. With strong winds the wind farm would supply the grid, but with some of the power used to pump water from the low reservoir up into the higher one. When the wind dropped below a certain level the pumping would stop and dam gates opened to allow water to flow from the higher reservoir down into the lower one powering hydro electric generators. The idea was to try and smooth our or make the supply of electric more predictable and use the excess wind to restock the higher reservoir as a backup source of electric on less windy days.

[grendel]

we have I believe 2 of that type of power station on the national grid, first you need a good height difference to power a generator,  next they are used to fill in the system with rapid response load (eg the ad break in the cup final where everyone puts the kettle on, the problem is that they can only provide power for a very short time

[ExSurveyor]

Hydrogen production is due to start at Herne Bay in Kent. A new concept plat is being built.

"The Herne Bay hydrogen plant will produce green hydrogen from existing offshore wind farms which will be used in zero-emission mobility transport solutions in the Southeast of England, the consulting and engineering company stated. It is planned to start production by the 2023 mid and, on final completion, the facility will have a capacity to produce between eight and nine tonnes of green hydrogen on daily basis."

[Mouldy]

54 minutes ago, grendel said:

we have I believe 2 of that type of power station on the national grid, first you need a good height difference to power a generator,  next they are used to fill in the system with rapid response load (eg the ad break in the cup final where everyone puts the kettle on, the problem is that they can only provide power for a very short time

Both in north Wales, Ffestiniog and Dinorwig.  The latter is amazing - we went here a few years ago when they used to do tours around the site and as an engineering fete, it is quite astonishing.  As Peter said, they are particularly useful when there is a spike in demand for power as it only takes a few seconds from opening the sluices that allows the water to flow, to full production of electricity.

[Bikertov]

1 hour ago, Mouldy said:

Both in north Wales, Ffestiniog and Dinorwig.  The latter is amazing - we went here a few years ago when they used to do tours around the site and as an engineering fete, it is quite astonishing.  As Peter said, they are particularly useful when there is a spike in demand for power as it only takes a few seconds from opening the sluices that allows the water to flow, to full production of electricity.

I'm sure I saw a TV program or YouTube video on one of these plants - fascinating ..

[FairTmiddlin]

9 hours ago, Vaughan said:

I can't see the point of wind farms to power houses, as they don't work when there's no wind!

And The problem is they cannot work in too much wind either.

They need 5-9 MPH to start turning and cut off at 50-55MPH.

And if the brakes fail there is one hell of a bonfire on a stick. Having seen one of the North Foreland array go up, it's spectacular sight.

[Heron]

The good thing about onshore wind farms is that if you have enough of them, it is almost sure to be windy somewhere in the UK, and the ones in the windy places at the time can supply power.

It is far too easy to come up with reasons not to rather than coming up with a positve solution, something our country has suffered from for decades!

[Smoggy]

And tidal streams can be predicted 100 years in advance, I'm surprised more hasn't been done to take advantage of them.

[Bikertov]

4 hours ago, Bikertov said:

I'm sure I saw a TV program or YouTube video on one of these plants - fascinating ..

Knew I had seen it somewhere !