Breydon Water Catches People Out Again!

[Wussername]

As a matter of interest I looked up the statistics involving a range of recreational pursuits throughout the UK. Pursuits like hill walking, fell walking, a gentle climb up a little mountain in say Wales or Scotland. Or a family outing in the wilderness (such a definition exists in the UK). Skiing, horse riding, surf boarding, swimming, football rugby; you name it there will be an accident. I read somewhere that there is a so called mountain rescue every day. Indeed helicopters, ambulances, police, coast guards, life boats are an essential part of our daily lives.

The incident on Breydon was no exception. Several souls were rescued from a very cold, uncomfortable experience. Some of the crew on these two boats were vulnerable, very vulnerable.  There situation would only have deteriorated.

In this respect the emergency controllers coordinated a most fantastic response that day. No different I have to say from countless emergencies they have to deal with. Cost does not come into it throughout their area in the UK. Norfolk is no different. It has the same problems and issues as every National Park, every recreational area, and has the same entitlement when presented with people in distress.

Should we try and limit this expense this commitment of resources here on the Broads. Of course we should.

 And we do.  

However.   A hovercraft on Breydon is not going to resolve the problem,  and would serve no use whatsoever, certificates, extra leaflets for the helm to read, certification of competence, will serve no purpose

Many of these suggestions, including one I read albeit on another forum, of closing Breydon to those on the Northern Rivers. What nonsense.

There tends to be a knee jerk reaction to certain issues. Some of which require a degree of reflection, consideration.

[Wussername]

4 minutes ago, jpd said:

Apologies for introducing myself in the middle of this debate . I have been reading , with interest various threads on this Forum for a while now and  I respect the fact that some of the regular contributors are clearly very knowledgeable about the Hire industry .  My experience of hand overs has been a bit as described above . 

Having not been on the Broads for a number of years in 2001 , I had a boat from Moores , asked if I was happy to go out without a trial .Then 2020 first time back for 19 years hired from Woods and asked if I was confident to go out without a trial . Both times my answer was yes , rightly or wrongly  and off I went . No mention of Breydon water .

I not sure if this is typical or not , it seems that the expectations of yard managers may not always be carried out by all staff . 

I did hire from Stalham in October last year , this was very different . I was asked of my boating experience and then told we are still going for a trial run , which I was fine by me . No mention of Breydon .

Your experience I'm afraid is not unusual, and needs to be recognised and addressed. 

The trial run needs to be revisited. It is an integral and most important part of the visitors experience. Neglected by many boatyards in years gone past. Those years have gone. 

[NotDeadYet]

7 hours ago, Meantime said:

How have we ever managed, without all this "risk based management", for the last 100 years in Broads boat hiring?

I'm reading a book about Broads boating written in the 1880's. I recommend it to all, especially those tempted towards the dark side of over regulation.  It can be downloaded free from various places, including Google books.  Search for 'The handbook to the rivers and broads of Norfolk and Suffolk' by George Christopher Davies.  Freedom, fun, a bit of adventure, respect for the environment, mishaps et al, largely without engine power, but supported by Victorian common sense. 

Yes, I know it's a bit busier out there now ..... actually, that might be the problem.

 

 

[Wussername]

2 hours ago, NotDeadYet said:

I'm reading a book about Broads boating written in the 1880's. I recommend it to all, especially those tempted towards the dark side of over regulation.  It can be downloaded free from various places, including Google books.  Search for 'The handbook to the rivers and broads of Norfolk and Suffolk' by George Christopher Davies.  Freedom, fun, a bit of adventure, respect for the environment, mishaps et al, largely without engine power, but supported by Victorian common sense. 

Yes, I know it's a bit busier out there now ..... actually, that might be the problem.

 

 

Thanks NDY. I have down loaded. Thank you. 

[YnysMon]

3 hours ago, NotDeadYet said:

Yes, I know it's a bit busier out there now ..... actually, that might be the problem.

Busier? I doubt it, given the number of boatyards that were formerly on the Broads. Mind you, I’ve read several accounts from the late 19th century/ early 20th century where it seemed to be the practice to hire a skipper with your boat, so maybe it was safer, if busier.

(Anyone recall those Victorian photos of tourist spots that were crammed with people?)

[Vaughan]

Well, here we all are, looking back on a thread that has run to 8 pages over almost a week, all based on an incident which, for all we know after a couple of very sparse press articles, is that a boat drifted onto the mud after an engine failure.  Even that may not be strictly accurate.

Something that could just as easily have happened to one of the private boats that one tends also to see lying high and dry on their side from time to time.  But of course, we are not allowed to "name and shame" them, are we?  So let's have a go at the boatyards instead and tell them all how we think they ought to be doing it better.

Some have asked what was it like in the old days before the SAR helicopters?  There were 3000 hire boats then, so there was always someone passing, to take a message to the yacht station.  If not, the Commissioners launch would spot them and radio the office in Yarmouth, who would notify Blakes tow boat.  A lot of use was made of dinghies, so as to get a line across to a boat and tow it off as the tide rose.  People were very rarely taken off a boat but if it had to be done it was often by walking a pram dinghy across the mud with a "victim" sitting in it.

There were, of course, over 100 boatyards in those days, providing a co-operative rescue service in all corners of the Broads, not just on Breydon.  They also provided free moorings, water, pumpouts, showers, rubbish bins, mechanical service and sometimes even supplies from their own riverside shop.  What happened to them?  They were killed off in the 80's partly by recession, partly by foreign holidays but mainly by bad press publicity.  There aren't many left now, but just think for a moment what cruising your private boat on the Broads would be like without them, and the tourist "dollars" that they bring to the Broads economy.  Would the various authorities still have the budget, or even the motivation, to maintain the navigation and its facilities in the same way?

If there are some on this "media platform" who feel it is their "right in debate" to have a good go at giving the boatyards a bad name for things which are so often due to an actual lack of public common sense, then go ahead. Have your fun, at the expense of those businesses upon whom the Broads navigation depends.

Just be careful what you wish for, is all.

[grendel]

as one who has experienced that heart stopping moment when the engine falters and dies while crossing Breydon, I can say it can happen to anyone, I was lucky, i restarted the engine and though I could not get full revs I had enough to get me across and up to Stracy Arms, albeit slowly. once there the fuel pump was removed and found to contain some waxy slime, which was cleared out, the filter was then replaced after some more cruising, and after that I experienced a few more fuel related issues (the main cause of these problems was a failure of the sealing washer on the bleed screw as it later turned out).

[andyg]

The world sure is a funny old place right now. So much debate over a simple misjudgement and a break down jeez. The broads hire boat industry is nowhere near what it was in the 70 80, ppl complain about Ludham bridge now lol..go back 20 odd years richardsons yard at Stalham was bursting at the seems there wasn't all the private boats moored there back then it was all hire craft. plus all the other smaller yards in the area. Horning was full of hire yards etc etc. Yarmouth yacht station and marina keys would be rammed full of hire craft moored 3 abreast, not a life jacket to be seen. The marker post system works perfectly fine and has done for years granted it needs some repairs. Boat will run aground mistakes will happen it's human nature. By the way do we think it just breydon where boats get stuck ?? Because it isn't. The broads are a perfectly safe holiday destination what isn't safe is ppl stupidity and lack of common sense fueld in some cases by over consumption of alcohol and dare I say it illegal drugs. Ppl new to a boating holiday might visit these forums and read nonsense on here that could scare the life out of them. Time to move on from this..pp

[Meantime]

4 hours ago, Vaughan said:

Well, here we all are, looking back on a thread that has run to 8 pages over almost a week, all based on an incident which, for all we know after a couple of very sparse press articles, is that a boat drifted onto the mud after an engine failure.  Even that may not be strictly accurate.

Not one but two boats, one possibly with engine failure. Hey but carry on rewriting history.

[Mouldy]

Whether we like it or not, people ignore rules and advice in all walks of life, everywhere, every day.  How many people will drive their car and break a speed limit today, how many people will buy an inflatable (lilo) take it in the sea and drift out too far necessitating rescue, how many people will take a boat out to sea, get into difficulties and need to be rescued?  Need I go on?

We are human beings and certainly in this country, have the right (sometimes) to make our own choices.  Do we want ‘big brother’ to tell us every aspect of how we should lead our lives?  I think for most of us the answer is no.

This isn’t the first time it’ll happen this year, it won’t be the last.  I hope that when it happens again we don’t have so much negativity and finger pointing, trying to find someone to blame.  Can’t we just say that it was an accident, be done with it and stop bloody point scoring?

[JanetAnne]

Just for balance, private boats are not exempt from the maladies of boating in Norfolk 

 

[andyg]

5 minutes ago, JanetAnne said:

Just for balance, private boats are not exempt from the maladies of boating in Norfolk 

 

Lol not to mention the one that went pelting across breydon straight on towards St olaves and ran it up the bank flat out lol...burk...

[Vaughan]

46 minutes ago, Meantime said:

Hey but carry on rewriting history.

And you carry on speculating, if you wish.

[Meantime]

2 minutes ago, JanetAnne said:

Just for balance, private boats are not exempt from the maladies of boating in Norfolk 

 

I don't think anyone has suggested they are. However I'm sure statistics would show you were more likely to see a hire boat aground on Breydon than a private boat.  It says something that you had to search the archives for a picture from 21st June 2015 to illustrate your point. Off course we all know that private boats go aground as well, and they are not perfect helmsmen either, so what focusses their mind?

I'm not going to go into any detail, but only last weekend we witnessed an incident down Thurne Dyke where my friend on board helped out a crew. As we walked into the pub one of their party offered to buy him a drink to say thanks for his help. A conversation ensued including a discussion about the three foot of rubbing strake hanging of their boat. It ended with, "well that's what the CDW's for" Thankfully in this instance the only other injured party was a piece of quay heading, not someone else's pride and joy.

[Chelsea14Ian]

Think this post has exhausted enough  now.Time to move on.Agree to much finger pointing.Sadly one thing for sure,no doubt  will scare the life of a few new to boating wanting to cross Breydon water.Thats sad ,crossing Breydon is a joy.

[FlyingFortress]

5 hours ago, Vaughan said:

Well, here we all are, looking back on a thread that has run to 8 pages over almost a week, all based on an incident which, for all we know after a couple of very sparse press articles, is that a boat drifted onto the mud after an engine failure.  Even that may not be strictly accurate.

Something that could just as easily have happened to one of the private boats that one tends also to see lying high and dry on their side from time to time.  But of course, we are not allowed to "name and shame" them, are we?  So let's have a go at the boatyards instead and tell them all how we think they ought to be doing it better.

Some have asked what was it like in the old days before the SAR helicopters?  There were 3000 hire boats then, so there was always someone passing, to take a message to the yacht station.  If not, the Commissioners launch would spot them and radio the office in Yarmouth, who would notify Blakes tow boat.  A lot of use was made of dinghies, so as to get a line across to a boat and tow it off as the tide rose.  People were very rarely taken off a boat but if it had to be done it was often by walking a pram dinghy across the mud with a "victim" sitting in it.

There were, of course, over 100 boatyards in those days, providing a co-operative rescue service in all corners of the Broads, not just on Breydon.  They also provided free moorings, water, pumpouts, showers, rubbish bins, mechanical service and sometimes even supplies from their own riverside shop.  What happened to them?  They were killed off in the 80's partly by recession, partly by foreign holidays but mainly by bad press publicity.  There aren't many left now, but just think for a moment what cruising your private boat on the Broads would be like without them, and the tourist "dollars" that they bring to the Broads economy.  Would the various authorities still have the budget, or even the motivation, to maintain the navigation and its facilities in the same way?

If there are some on this "media platform" who feel it is their "right in debate" to have a good go at giving the boatyards a bad name for things which are so often due to an actual lack of public common sense, then go ahead. Have your fun, at the expense of those businesses upon whom the Broads navigation depends.

Just be careful what you wish for, is all.

I am genuinely interested to know what "bad press publicity " killed the hey day of The Broads Hire Industry.

I was only working in this area from mid 80s and did not move here until early 90s when I bought my first boat shortly after.

I had only ever visited the area once before on my last holiday with my Parents in the late 70s.

IIRC I joined the Norfolk Broads Forum around 2002 or 3 when it was in it's early days and as far as I am aware it was the first Forum about The Broads.

[Vaughan]

50 minutes ago, FlyingFortress said:

I am genuinely interested to know what "bad press publicity " killed the hey day of The Broads Hire Industry.

I appreciate the question but I will perhaps leave it open to the forum to reply for the moment, as I sometimes think I am the only one who seems to remember!  It has also been discussed in other places on the forum over the last few years.

Perhaps you only have to look at how this latest Breydon incident has got to the Tatty Tabloids and how they have delighted in reporting it, to see how fragile the tourist market can be, to a bit of Doom-watch journalism.

 

[andyg]

52 minutes ago, FlyingFortress said:

I am genuinely interested to know what "bad press publicity " killed the hey day of The Broads Hire Industry.

I was only working in this area from mid 80s and did not move here until early 90s when I bought my first boat shortly after.

I had only ever visited the area once before on my last holiday with my Parents in the late 70s.

IIRC I joined the Norfolk Broads Forum around 2002 or 3 when it was in it's early days and as far as I am aware it was the first Forum about The Broads.

It didn't, it was the arrival of the overseas package holiday. Guaranteed sunshine,kids clubs, swimming pools etc etc. For once mum could also have a holiday. I 

[DAVIDH]

I'm guessing Vaughan refers to the days when the likes of the Sun newspaper offered holiday breaks on the Broads (and other UK holidays) for less than £10. The boatyards, seeing that their business was migrating abroad, presumably welcomed the trade, in the hope that the reduced prices would entice new visitors, who might then become regulars. Not an unreasonable assumption. The low prices brought people to the Broads in masses. Some were wholly unsuited to a holiday getting back to nature, and perhaps expected a completely different type of entertainment. Bad publicity followed with tales of unseemly goings on. Regulars were likely put off by the lurid headlines, and a portion of that market was lost. 

I do think that the overseas market was actually the bullet to the heart, but the newspaper promotions did more harm than good. I might have completely misinterpreted all this, and if so  I'm sure Vaughan will clarify 

[OldBerkshireBoy]

The latest incident may put some off coming however it might sharpen the minds of others so I am saddened to see that some here want the talking to stop.

[Happy]

4 minutes ago, DAVIDH said:

I'm guessing Vaughan refers to the days when the likes of the Sun newspaper offered holiday breaks on the Broads (and other UK holidays) for less than £10. The boatyards, seeing that their business was migrating abroad, presumably welcomed the trade, in the hope that the reduced prices would entice new visitors, who might then become regulars. Not an unreasonable assumption. The low prices brought people to the Broads in masses. Some were wholly unsuited to a holiday getting back to nature, and perhaps expected a completely different type of entertainment. Bad publicity followed with tales of unseemly goings on. Regulars were likely put off by the lurid headlines, and a portion of that market was lost. 

I do think that the overseas market was actually the bullet to the heart, but the newspaper promotions did more harm than good. I might have completely misinterpreted all this, and if so  I'm sure Vaughan will clarify 

  I remember seeing some of the boats that were offered - quite grim in my opinion.  I do think it may have put some hirers off forever!  Just my opinion of course.

[Chelsea14Ian]

17 minutes ago, OldBerkshireBoy said:

The latest incident may put some off coming however it might sharpen the minds of others so I am saddened to see that some here want the talking to stop.

Surely  this as I've said has been exhausted. It's just going  round  in circles. What's the point  in carry on.

[Wussername]

It will finish naturally on its own accord. All topics fade away eventually. Then, sometimes as new people join, the wheel it seems gets reinvented as if nothing had happened in the past. Then someone will make that which they assume is the definitive post followed by a request that the topic be closed. It never does,but will in its own time. That is the way of forums.

Andrew

[Maxwellian]

3 hours ago, Chelsea14Ian said:

Surely  this as I've said has been exhausted. It's just going  round  in circles. What's the point  in carry on.

Because some individuals gain pleasure in running others down!

[FlyingFortress]

When was this Sun thing? Please bear in mind I have never been a hirer?

With regards to closing the Thread.

There is always the option not to read it