Am I Expecting Too Much?

[grounded]

My wife Lyn and i have finally made it to our favourite place to celebrate our 50 years together. This has been no easy journey (not our marriage, ouch, sorry dear) but the trip with multiple cancelled flights, huge price hikes, and my luggage still circulating in that great carousel in the sky (since 21st May!). Anyroadup, i digress.

We are now about half way through our 3 weeks on the boat and having no way of measuring fuel consumption or level i wanted to try and work out if i would need to shell out for liquid gold before our trip is up. So i emailed our boatyard (no names) and asked for the fuel capacity of our boat and the average fuel consumption in lph. I know there are many variables but yards must have a way of estimating fuel use as they measure litres lost at the end of every trip. I was surprised to be told that they did not know the fuel capacity of our boat ( despite it being in their fleet for many years), but estimated it to be around 150litres. They were not able to give any kind of estimate of fuel use be that lph or litres per week. I was advised to pay to fill the tank as i would get it back at the end. I guess i may have to do so, but was i expecting too much of the yard to know the fuel capacity of boats they hire? And to have some back of a fag packet estimate of fuel use?

I am not wanting to knock the yard, they have been helpful in a number of ways, but is this not just basic business information?

Chris

[BrundallNavy]

If your worried put in about £40 or so I wouldn’t fill it right up as you might not get back the same price per ltr. Boulter’s are probably the cheapest at £1-80 per litre. 

[floydraser]

No, I don't think you are expecting too much. Not that it's your automatic right to the information but in a competitive market it's the kind of thing which sorts the best from the also-rans. I hope they know the last time it was serviced...

[marshman]

Yes I think you are being a little unfair (not on the tank size!) simply because there are many variables. A 150l tank is fairly common on hire boats

I have an old Perkins MC42 and over a year use approx 1 1/2 litres per hour or a little more but I have seen reports of people using astonishing amounts by my standard!! But then I always plan my voyages to spend at least 50% of the time travelling with the tide - yes even up and down the Ant and  rarely exceed 1500rpm. That keeps me by my calculation around about the speed limit but does anyone do that?

Punching a full flood tide south of Acle would probably double consumption, yet most people do it without thought. I don't go south anymore because I have been there, done it and read the book but especially down south punching the tide for any length of time would add to my consumption. We are coming up to neap tides this weekend, so that will help as will lack of rainfall will also reduce flow in some upper reaches. There really is no average given the variables - or thats my view!

Today I cruised for 5 hours but I doubt I used much more than 8 litres but others would have got there quicker and used double - its a bit like a car! Depends how you drive them!!!!! How much thought you give to it, where you are cruising and whether you take note of tides and wait until the tide has turned, if thats the way you are going!!

 

[YnysMon]

Try to find a (reasonably straight) stick to dip into the tank to gauge the fuel level. The old fashioned way. 

We have a stick provided for that purpose on our syndicate boat.

On the other hand, I think the boatyard’s advice is probably sound, especially if you fill up in Boulter’s, as BrundallNavy has suggested. 

[Meantime]

You ask the question are you expecting too much? and on the surface the answer is probably no until you consider the following. Most hires are for a week long period. A few will do a longer 10 or 11 day hire and even less a 2 week hire. You are very much in the minority and unchartered waters to some degree by hiring for 3 weeks. Hire boats go out at the start of the hire with a full tank and even in the depths of Winter are unlikely to run out of fuel on a weeks hire unless it has a leak. They come back at the end of the week and get brimmed again and the hirer pays the cost, unless it was an all inclusive deal with fuel included. To that end the hire yard doesn't really need to know what the average fuel consumption of each boat is. It is virtually unheard of for a hire boat to run out of fuel.

You are in a somewhat unique situation of being out for three weeks and are one of the few hires where running out of fuel may become an issue. The best advice and it appears to be what the yard has given you is to not take a chance and fill up. This could be to your advantage as the yard will charge you on your return at their current diesel price. If you fill up out Boulters one of the cheapest places on The Broads then you will be filling up with far less upon your return and will get back a lot more of your fuel deposit. In fact i would go as far as to say fill up for peace of mind and then if possible fill up again one or two days before returning your boat.

My own boat is an ex hire boat and has a 175 litre tank. The most I have done between fills, and the tank was no where near empty, was 280 miles. That would suffice for me pootling around the Northern Broads for 3 to 4 weeks, but then again I don't rush anywhere and like Marshman tend to go with the tides, especially on the lower reaches.

Ultimately your question is a bit like how long is a piece of string? My advice would be very similar to the hire yard. Fill up for peace of mind and look forward to a decent return of your fuel deposit.   

[Vaughan]

Marshman's estimate for a Perkins on the north rivers is correct.  They are very economical engines.  For a Nanni I would allow a bit more than 2 litres an hour, as you will not be using heating at this time of year (I hope).  But if you are punching the tide, 4 litres per hour.

In fairness to the boatyard, a lot of their fleets these days have been bought secondhand from other closed businesses and not built by them, so tank sizes will vary a lot.  Most hire boats have tanks which should last 2 weeks, so 175 to 200 litres will be the norm.

When you phoned the yard you presumably spoke to someone in reception who didn't know these sort of details. Had they put you through to the engineers' shop on the yard, you might have got a better answer!

[andyg]

Spot on Vaughan, just take richardsons as an example. I reckon even Clive or Paul would struggle to know the full tech specs of fleets they have purchased over the years. I assume they leave that to their engineering department. I don't think it's an unfair question. Bridgecraft actually still equip there boats with a dip stick for fuel, something I haven't seen in years. 

[Cal]

Even when we have hired for two weeks we have been told to top up the fuel mid way through the holiday and this is from two different yards.

So you will certainly need to refuel on a 3 week break.

[grounded]

Many thanks for all of your responses folks. I did email the yard and was told the response was from an engineer. We do "pootle" in that we have our favourite places around the Northern Broads and we will visit each perhaps 2 or 3 times. We rarely travel at the speed limit, we are on holiday and see no need to rush anywhere, and i doubt we have done over 1400rpm for more than a minute or two. I will give thought to our options! 

Incidentally, are hire boat engines serviced at intervals of so many hours running, or so many months of use? 

Thanks again.

Chris

[Vaughan]

49 minutes ago, grounded said:

Incidentally, are hire boat engines serviced at intervals of so many hours running, or so many months of use? 

They are serviced before every hire and the intervals for oil changes, etc., depend on the type of engine.  Usually every 200 - 300 hours, so 3 or 4 times a season.

[floydraser]

Nevertheless, the customer felt the need to ask the question as he thought he was being short changed. 

[Meantime]

20 minutes ago, floydraser said:

Nevertheless, the customer felt the need to ask the question as he thought he was being short changed. 

I didn't read anywhere in his question that he felt he was being short changed!!! Just a genuine concern that he didn't know how full the tank was and was worried about running out of fuel as it was a three week hire. If you don't know it is best to ask.

On my very first hire which was only for a week we called into another yard for a pump out and enquired whether we would also need to put some fuel in. We hadn't been told it would last the week and we didn't know.

[PaulN]

My recent fuel consumption, if it helps, was as follows:

The boat has a Beta 38 hp shaft drive with a 270 litre tank (I believe transverse hydraulic drives can be up to 30% less fuel efficient)

We have just spent 4 weeks on the boat although were static for 7 days at various places, so call it 3 weeks of motoring each day. The extent of our  travels from Horning took us to Coltishall, Potter Heigham, Oulton Broad, Geldeston, Loddon and Norwich with various stops in between, returning to Horning.

Before we went home we filled up at Boulter's @ £1.80 and the bill came to £218, which makes consumption 121 litres 

[annv]

Hi Chris for your peace of mind just fill it up it wont cost you any more in the long run and might evan be less,  you will get your fuel deposit back at end of your hire less what it cost's to fill it up for next hire'r. John

[andyg]

If you can afford 3 weeks hire at todays prices then the odd couple of hundred quid topping the beast up shouldn't be a problem. Only kidding 😉 personally I'd wait till I was halfway through my trip and fill her up again. Boulters seem to be where everyone heads..

[Mouldy]

1 hour ago, andyg said:

If you can afford 3 weeks hire at todays prices then the odd couple of hundred quid topping the beast up shouldn't be a problem. Only kidding 😉 personally I'd wait till I was halfway through my trip and fill her up again. Boulters seem to be where everyone heads..

Long way if you’re in Beccles! 😉. But seriously, if you’re near to Horning, Boulters are probably the cheapest on The Broads for diesel, but you will need to call them to make a booking.  They can only serve one boat at a time and get busy.

[YnysMon]

50 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

They can only serve one boat at a time and get busy

Best avoid Friday morning too. That seems to be a time when lots of the syndicate boats book in at Boulters. 

[BrundallNavy]

22 minutes ago, YnysMon said:

Best avoid Friday morning too. That seems to be a time when lots of the syndicate boats book in at Boulters. 

And avoid it when it’s windy like today, not the easiest place to get in and out. 
 

[Cheesey69]

Our ex hire had a fabricated fuel tank as well as a hot water tank. 
in that regard each boat may be different?
I found the panels it was hiding behind and measured it. 
it came out to around 45 gallon or 200 litres

my engine is a bmc 1.5 and you won’t get me doing more than 4 in a 35 Bermuda.
I get around 9 miles to the gallon but it has been said. It really depends on helms style 

[floydraser]

On 07/07/2022 at 09:45, Meantime said:

I didn't read anywhere in his question that he felt he was being short changed!!! Just a genuine concern that he didn't know how full the tank was and was worried about running out of fuel as it was a three week hire. If you don't know it is best to ask.

 

And the title of the thread is?

My point was that if he was completely satisfied by the answers he got from the boatyard, he wouldn't have bothered asking anything here. They didn't have to know the exact answers, just put it over with reassurance. They obviously left room for doubt.

[grounded]

This has generated a lot of interesting discussion. For the record i did not at any time i was being short-changed. Mine was a genuine request for help from the boatyard. I naively expected they would have comprehensive knowledge of each of their boats specifications. I remain surprised.

My follow up question regarding engine servicing was again based upon an (uninformed) assumption that if the engine servicing was based on running hours, there would be an hour counter in the engine housing. At the end of each hire the fuel used is measured, the hours run are checked, result a simple sum. 

Ah well, i am recording hours run each day and i will be surprised if we reach 50, so on the information above we should be ok.

And yes we could afford a 3 week hire, on the back of 3 years saving, and with flights going up $6000+ and having to shell out several £00 to replace 8 weeks worth of clothing and possessions, we are having to make decisions re budgets.

Cheers, Chris

[PaulN]

Hope you have a great time Chris, you certainly have the weather today/

[ExSurveyor]

# grounded, that must make you a very dedicated boaty. Flying from the other side of the world I would guess 3 weeks is the minimum to justify the travel costs, well done you. I moan about the cost of a 300 mile round trip. My hat has been taken off to you.

[Meantime]

If you still have a week left, then the best is yet to come weather wise. Enjoy and hopefully it's not too long before your back again.