Boat Damage Posts Split From Hijinks On On Hi-jinks

[Mouldy]

Sadly, the incident involving the woodie has attracted the usual and predictable venom from some people on Facebook towards hirers.  I fully understand the owners anger and do feel for him, as the damage is serious and may run into many thousands of pounds to fix, but at times like these, social media can be a menace.

[addicted]

The damage to the woodie was purely accidental. It was definitely not the result of carelessness and to castigate the helmsman is very unfair. It was caused by sheer lack of experience and inadequate tuition plus a large dollop of panic. An experienced helmsman  would have found it challenging to handle a 45' boat in that wind and that small harbour. Social media has become a menace which is why I have no truck with anything other than this forum. Hirers are essential to the economy and the ethos of the Broads and anyone who thinks that the Broads would be better with just privately owned boats are deluding themselves.

 

Carole

[JanetAnne]

The wooden in question was returned to its owners about 16.30 this afternoon having spent the day on a slipway having a decent temporary repair completed. They will be able to continue with their seasons boating. A full repair will be undertaken during her winter maintenance.

 

[Vaughan]

1 hour ago, addicted said:

Hirers are essential to the economy and the ethos of the Broads and anyone who thinks that the Broads would be better with just privately owned boats are deluding themselves.

I thoroughly agree!

All the same I feel your post is rather spoiled by the almost automatic assumption of "inadequate tuition".  As you were a witness to this incident, is there any basis for that?

[Meantime]

54 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

All the same I feel your post is rather spoiled by the almost automatic assumption of "inadequate tuition".

On Saturday I was moored on a BA mooring. In front of me was a boat from a hire yard very near by. Behind me was a boat from the same hire yard. It soon became obvious that both boats were together. About 30 mins later another boat from the same yard attempted to double moor to the boat in front of me. I had to go out and fend it off from hitting me. It was under instruction from the yard hand from the yard at the end of it's handover and he had to step over the side and help fend off and apologise to me. With a struggle he got the boat alongside the boat in front of me and tied it off to the boat in front of me. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but when double mooring shouldn't the ropes from the outside boat still go ashore, not to the boat already moored?

Anyway, after a little while and much toing and froing amongst the three boats a fourth boat appeared and held station in the river behind me. All four boats were together and completed the party and were now off. I was on maximum alert as the tide was coming in towards me and the double moored boat in front was facing away from me, but the other boat on the inside was facing me. In front of me frantic untying of all ropes occurred on both boats at the same time!!!! The double moored one departed with a good hefty clout to the bow of the one in front of me, probably fortunate that it's ropes were already undone ready for departure!!!

Then the one in front of me started to leave heading straight for me. I have never moved so fast, but managed to get him to stop and then  suggested he reversed off into the tide that was clearly coming in from behind him. It worked, he got away safely and my gel coat lives to tell the tale another day.

I later watched the same yard hand have two attempts at stern mooring an empty boat outside the yard!!!

I cannot comment on the incident above, but my own experience from last Saturday tells me that the yard hand was not experienced enough to be doing hand overs, let alone the crews he left to go on their merry crashing way.

I'm only glad when we left we were heading South and the other four boats had headed upriver.

On the Sunday morning I was heading for Yarmouth and witnessed a boat having overtaken me when a boy of about 8 or 9 exited from a side door onto the side deck and walked bare foot down the deck with no lifejacket, down a couple of steps and then into the back door. His Father at the upper helm position never once looked around. I won't mention the boat, but it was far too similar to one I'm sure we are all too familiar with. I was as nervous as hell until that child was inside. Was he just a very poor parent, or was he not aware of the risks? and who's fault was that? Yards shouldn't be scaring people coming on holiday, but people need to be made aware of all the reasonable risks. 

The two incidents I experienced involved two different yards and from the description of the incident with the woodie wasn't either of them. Are handovers being conducted properly on boats that are more powerful, complex and larger than days gone by, I won't answer that, but I have my own opinion.

[CambridgeCabby]

I too witnessed the incident at Oulton and I concur that the hirer was mortified to have caused such damage .

The reason it occurred was that he was unaware that the stern of his 40ft+ fly bridge cruiser would swing to the degree it did when making a full turn , whether this is a lack of tuition is certainly debatable but if the hire yards spent the time that would be necessary to cover every eventuality then the hire viability would be lost and the Broads as we know them would be no more .

No one was hurt , accidents do happen and the hire yard will certainly make good any damages , and it wasn’t a case of stag parties or such like just a lovely family where a mistake happened 

[addicted]

Thee people!e on this hired boat told us that the only tuition they had received was a fifteen minute video! I rest my case! 

 

Carole

[addicted]

3 hours ago, Vaughan said:

I thoroughly agree!

All the same I feel your post is rather spoiled by the almost automatic assumption of "inadequate tuition".  As you were a witness to this incident, is there any basis for that?

 

[Mouldy]

3 minutes ago, addicted said:

Thee people!e on this hired boat told us that the only tuition they had received was a fifteen minute video! I rest my case! 

 

Carole

If that is the case, then the hire yard in question has much to answer for.  If recommendations regarding handovers are being ‘skimped,’ shall we say and more stringent handover regulations are imposed, the hire yards maybe doing themselves no favours in the long run.  I have no doubt that this incident will be reported to the MIAB and there are those on various FB groups that are advocating that even minor bumps are reported.  It won’t be long before some action will be taken, I’m sure.

Costly formal training, or even licensing would almost certainly be detrimental to the hire industry and have serious implications in the long run.  I will argue that no amount of training will prepare a novice helm to deal with all eventualities and has been said many times before, you can’t teach stupid, but it’s almost inevitable that something will have to be done to ensure that handovers are completed by all yards to an acceptable standard.

 

[BroadAmbition]

That’s three of my mates boats damaged this season. All three required out of water repairs. The repairs for the woody at OBYS will run into thousands and out of t water for a considerable time. We have discussed- tongue in cheek- of having badges ‘Awarded’ if been hit by a hire boat

I’m out on ‘B.A’ first time tomorrow since her work completed. Think I could do with RSJ’s all round

’B.A’ holds the unenviable record of being hit by a hireboat (orange bathtub) less than one hour after we launched. Freshly painted hull pristine for just fifty minutes. 
 

Griff

[andyg]

Must be very upsetting for the owner of the damaged craft. I guess the debate on hire boat tuitions will gone on for ever. Some folk take to Helming a boat naturally and some clearly shouldn't be anywhere near a boat. Same could be said for car drivers as well. I was a 1st time customer of bridgecraft this year and there procedures were very thorough indeed. Mark one of the owners did my hand over and he covered just about everything. You then had to sign hoseasons paperwork confirming you had watched the ba videos for hirer's and you'd received adequate tuition. I was Informed if I wasn't comfortable or confident handling the boat I was to call the yard or pop in and more assistance would be given. What more could they do ?? I don't accept the hirer's account of just watching a video that's utter nonsense in my opinion. I will say that I found hw hand overs pretty poor. 

[JanetAnne]

I believe the hirer said he'd had a 15 min trial (plus the videos). He had also managed to get all the way from Wroxham to Oulton Broad in a sizeable craft without incident on the way.  

A gust of wind caught an inexperienced crew out. I expect to get caught out myself in a similar way at least once this summer!

[trambo]

Reading the story of the Oulton Broad incident I feel sympathy for both parties but should a novice hirer have been on such a boat? I suspect the hirers holiday has been ruined (it would mine) and they will not return to any boating holiday.  In what now seems a long time ago the two main agencies recommended first time hirers to keep their choice of craft to under 34'. So what has changed? Have cruisers become more easy to handle? In two ways they have, the universal adoption of single leaver control and the introduction of bow and stern thrusters. However Broads boat design has become less boater friendly in other ways. Just getting on, off and around the boat on some designs is not as easy as it should be and high superstructure designs are prone to wind, even when fitted with thrusters. Would it not be sensible for yards to highlight classes suitable for novices and to restrict certain classes to experienced crews only or would this effect their profitability too much? 

Fred

[YnysMon]

1 minute ago, trambo said:

In what now seems a long time ago the two main agencies recommended first time hirers to keep their choice of craft to under 34'.

That's a bit impractical for some families. If they want a boat with good facilities that's often only affordable if you do it was an extended family or friends. 

[FlyingFortress]

There has been a lot of talk on this thread about the holiday being ruined for the hiring family.

Not much about the holiday of the owner. 

[addicted]

I believe a lot of accidents involving hire boats could be avoided if tuition stressed the need to pay close attention to the stern.

 

Carole

[Mouldy]

14 minutes ago, trambo said:

Reading the story of the Oulton Broad incident I feel sympathy for both parties but should a novice hirer have been on such a boat? I suspect the hirers holiday has been ruined (it would mine) and they will not return to any boating holiday.  In what now seems a long time ago the two main agencies recommended first time hirers to keep their choice of craft to under 34'. So what has changed? Have cruisers become more easy to handle? In two ways they have, the universal adoption of single leaver control and the introduction of bow and stern thrusters. However Broads boat design has become less boater friendly in other ways. Just getting on, off and around the boat on some designs is not as easy as it should be and high superstructure designs are prone to wind, even when fitted with thrusters. Would it not be sensible for yards to highlight classes suitable for novices and to restrict certain classes to experienced crews only or would this effect their profitability too much? 

Fred

I think you have it in one there Fred. Take the latest 46’, 4 berth offering from NBD as an example.  The view from the internal helm must be appalling with tiny windows that don’t open far enough to stick your head out when going astern, never mind what’s happening on the other side.  Bonded windows with small opening hatches in a lot of new craft, too instead of big sliding windows must also restrict outward visibility  when manoeuvring.  Even with our little boat, I like to slide the helm window open to clearly see the quay when mooring.

I really don’t like the slab sided flybridge craft.  They catch the wind and thrusters are no match for anything more than a gentle breeze and that’s if the helm knows how to use them to best effect.

It seems that the market dictates that boating is not now camping afloat, albeit with toilets and showers, but new craft must offer all the luxuries of a four star hotel.

As I said earlier, I can’t help thinking that the hire industry is going to shoot itself in the foot soon, especially if guidance on handover training is made a legal requirement as the result of more accidents and incidents.  

[Meantime]

4 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

I can’t help thinking that the hire industry is going to shoot itself in the foot soon,

The hire industry has been slowly doing that for the last 15 years or so. Who in their right mind is going to buy those 46ft behemoths when they are 15 or 20 years old? The trickle of ex hire boats being sold to privateers will slowly stop as generally they are not in the market for anything over 35 to 38ft.

I purchased my 35ft ex hire boat when it was 12 years old. I cannot think of much if anything that is currently 12 years old on hire that I would entertain buying. One of the reasons I've had my boat 18 years now.

[MauriceMynah]

Sorry Meantime, but I'm struggling in my mind to get an image of someone shooting themselves in the foot SLOWLY.!!! 😁

[grendel]

22 minutes ago, FlyingFortress said:

There has been a lot of talk on this thread about the holiday being ruined for the hiring family.

Not much about the holiday of the owner. 

due to the wooden boat communities nature, a temporary fix has been accomplished which has got the boat owner back on the water for the rest of this season, I do like the way that under difficult circumstances the boating community can come together and resolve problems like this, and you can be certain that other work was put to one side to get the owner back on the water. over winter a full repair will need to be done, while the boat is out for regular maintenance.

[Vaughan]

2 minutes ago, grendel said:

due to the wooden boat communities nature, a temporary fix has been accomplished which has got the boat owner back on the water for the rest of this season,

And I would add that normal marine insurance should  cover the owner for such a repair, in order to leave the vessel "in commission".

[PaulN]

Like many, I am always wary of boats mooring and leaving adjacent to us and generally don't leave the boat until any adjacent space has a boat moored up safely.

When turning in for the night, I'm always aware of which way around the boat either side of us is moored and whether they will be bow down tide and facing us in the morning. If they are we tend to be up early and leave before them.

At stern on moorings, many hire boats just swing the helm as soon as they leave the quay, side swiping the adjacent boat with their ster in doing so.

Before we had our own boat, we hired for several years, not once during yard tuition, was I told if moored in the direction of the tide, to push the stern out and motor slowly in reverse, letting the tide do the work. Nor was I told that unlike a car it steered from the rear not the front and so the stern of the boat would change direction first, so always consider this in close quarters.

June, July and August we always head south, it's much less stressful. 

[FlyingFortress]

Much good advice there Paul.

Unfortunately the incident happened dahn Saaff so there is no escaping it.

We likewise try to avoid the mayhem oop North during the busiest months.

[RogF]

Oh dear we are up norf..  In our short time we have experienced some dodgy helmmansship.....  !!

 

Not going sarf until we have a touch more experience. Secret there is admitting that we are among the uneducated.

 

This forum is awesome as to helping with that education.  I thank you all.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, RogF said:

Oh dear we are up norf..  In our short time we have experienced some dodgy helmmansship.....  !!

 

Not going sarf until we have a touch more experience. Secret there is admitting that we are among the uneducated.

 

This forum is awesome as to helping with that education.  I thank you all

Just enjoy your time on your boat. I travel North and South constantly and whilst incidents occur, as long as you are careful and considerate with your helming (keep it slow) the worst that normally happens is a little fender kiss. Just don't sail off and try to get away unnoticed if the worst does happen, take it on the chin and own up to it 

Down South the tides are much stronger, which actually assists you if you use them correctly, but makes you look a right idiot if you don't and you are standing on the quay heading as your boat floats away from you down the river