Right Size Ensign

[wooster]

Greetings folks,

I'm putting a flag up on the rear of my boat. The boat is 37ft and according to one site I looked on it suggestesd the correct size ensign was 1 1/4 yd which I assume is 45" long. This seems pretty big to me. I'm worried it'll be touching the water !

I can buy a kit with a pole of 125cm so maybe it would be fine. Would you suggest this size or something a little smaller?

Thanks all

[Jbx5]

That size will be fine also better to invest in a quality stitched one not the cheap printed ones as this will last years we've had this one for 15 years but we dont leave it out when not using the boat. 

John 

[Smoggy]

Get what fits the boat, for inland only I wouldn't have one at all but it's a requirement for sea going, that said I've been out a good few times without, the worst in the UK is being sneered at, some countries will issue fines and possibly impound the boat.

[FlyingFortress]

There is no requirement for seagoing boats. 

Only when going overseas.

And truthfully only the most pedantic of immigration staff would bother you.

As said above get the size flag that looks best for your boat and don't worry about it. 

[wooster]

Thanks for the replies folks. I'm not really bothered about legislation or anything but as I'm mail ordering the flag and pole I can't really  try it out for size and wondered if you agreed that the rule of thumb a 125cm and 11/4yd flag would be about right for me.

Thanks and sorry to ask what might seem to be such a vague question but a rough idea would be great.

[MargeandParge]

Hi

You could get a bamboo cane and try different sizes cut from an old sheet till you were happy with the look. Then measure cane length and cloth square. 

Regards Marge and Parge 

[MargeandParge]

Oh no they'll be after  me it's a rectangle.  and not a square

[wooster]

5 hours ago, MargeandParge said:

Oh no they'll be after  me it's a rectangle.  and not a square

Surely it's a cuboid. It has some depth . Although re-reading your post, I'm clearly wrong. Oh dear!

[wooster]

I have a feeling I'm making too much of this. I'm sure the 1 1/4 will be fine for my purposes though the 125cm pole seems a bit unweildy

 

[TeamElla]

13 hours ago, Smoggy said:

for inland only I wouldn't have one at all

I'll second that

[wooster]

I see

[Vaughan]

Ensigns are traditionally made of bunting, which is very hard wearing, when flapping in the wind. This was woven in 9 inch strips which were known as breadths.  So a flag a yard wide is said to be of 4 breadths. 

 

The ensign is the national colour of your vessel so it is whatever size is best to distinguish it from a distance to other vessels, which in the old days, might be at war with you!

I have read somewhere that the correct length for your ensign is one inch for every foot length of the yacht.  I think what really matters is the extent to which you wish to display your nationality with pride!

The red ensign dates back to about 1700 which is a lot older than the present day White Ensign of the Navy and used to have the banner of St George in the "hoist" long before the present day Union Flag, which incorporates the crosses of St George, St Andrew and St Patrick.

In the 17th century the Navy was split into 3 squadrons, which were identified by a red, white or blue ensign.  Hence Nelson was known as an Admiral "of the Blue".  The Navy later always wore the white ensign in battle, including Trafalgar, as it avoided confusion with the French Tricolor.  When the present day white ensign (with the cross of St George) was introduced,  the blue ensign was accorded to auxiliary vessels and port establishments and the merchant navy were accorded the red ensign, since they had been wearing it for 100 years by then, anyway!

This is why the Navy also took to wearing the Union Flag in the forward rigging, to show that they were a warship, not a merchant ship and the union flag may still only be worn by warships, at the jack-staff when not under way.  Hence it has become known as the Union Jack.

I have an antagonist on this forum who will be waiting to pounce on me as soon as I mention anything to do with the sea but it is true that in theory, you have no need of your ensign in inland waters as you have already entered the country.  All the same, flag etiquette is a fascinating subject with hundreds of years of tradition going back to Tudor times and nowadays, we with our pleasure boats are about all that is left of the British Merchant Navy.

So why shouldn't we wear our colours with pride?

 

[marshman]

Checked mine today on a 35' boat   -  36" x 18".  Seems about right! Always flown it and always will until I give up - always take it in when not on board and at dusk. By all means tell me its not big enough and I am doing it all wrong but it is probably 40 years old if its a day and still going!!!!  Been out at sea, gone foreign and now ending its days doing not a lot in my home county - bit like me, generally in retirement and a bit dirty and showing signs of age!!

[MargeandParge]

Hi Marshman if it's still that size at that age then you are entitled to be very proud. .

Kindest regards Marge and Parge 

[ScrumpyCheddar]

Hang a pair of Y fronts off the back there know your British 🤣🤣👍

[FlyingFortress]

Interesting history Vaughan but factually incorrect.

5 hours ago, Vaughan said:

we with our pleasure boats are about all that is left of the British Merchant Navy

Shipping is a complex business but in 2020 the Red Ensign group. ( Those entitled to fly The Red Ensign) was the 10 th largest in the world with over 48 million DWT (Dead Weight Tonnes ) of ship registered on it. 

Yes I agree a shadow of itself in 1939 when it was the largest in the world but still a significant part of the World Tonnage. 

It is a Flag I have been proud to serve under for the vast majority of my 44 year seagoing career.

The Merchant Navy and it's armed relation The Royal Navy still forms a significant part of world maritime presence.

[Vaughan]

10 hours ago, FlyingFortress said:

Interesting history Vaughan but factually incorrect.

I told you, didn't I?

My father was a commander in the Navy in the War and a founder member of the Royal Hong Kong Yacht Club before it, so flag etiquette for him, was vital, even for a yacht on Wroxham Broad. It is rather a question of maintaining standards, and the paying of compliments, by the correct positioning of flags and ensigns. As I said, it goes back hundreds of years.

I wrote an article on it a few years ago, which was published as a booklet in the River Cruiser magazine, to explain the origins and seniority of club flags, the history of a commodore's "broad pennant", the seniority (and defacing) of ensigns, and a lot of other things for those who were not sure what to "wear" and when.

I was thinking of posting it here on the forum but as you see, it is better I keep my head down.

[FlyingFortress]

Flag Etiquette is very interesting to a lot of people so I am sure your article will go down well on here.

As it's not a subject I am particularly bothered about I promise not to comment.

It was only your comments about the Merchant Navy that prompted my reply above. 

[Vaughan]

I am so sorry to have ruffled your feathers whilst trying to give a decent reply to the O.P.s question.

I am heartily sick of this.  A while ago now, I had a post removed when I was trying to defend myself from your constant flaming, as the mod team said they preferred to deal with it.

Well, as they say on military radios - "nothing heard, wait out".

[MauriceMynah]

I have a question for those who both know and care about flag etiquette.

I have just replaced my old and slightly tatty red ensign with a bright shiney new one.

What is the correct way to dispose of the old one?

[ranworthbreeze]

24 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

I have a question for those who both know and care about flag etiquette.

I have just replaced my old and slightly tatty red ensign with a bright shiney new one.

What is the correct way to dispose of the old one?

Hello MM I would suggest a decent burial.

Regards Alan

[Smoggy]

Use it as a boat polishing cloth MM.

 

[thunder]

I have a 41ft boat and fly a 1yd blue ensign - fit what you think is best for you

 

[grendel]

55 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

What is the correct way to dispose of the old one?

well you could try selling it as an antique, the green hue would make it a particularly rare item. a patina acquired in the steamy backwater tributaries of the chinese deltas.

[OldBerkshireBoy]

17 minutes ago, grendel said:

well you could try selling it as an antique, the green hue would make it a particularly rare item. a patina acquired in the steamy backwater tributaries of the chinese deltas.

I had no idea MM had spent any time in the chiinese deltas!