Reform The Broads Authority

[Bikertov]

44 minutes ago, socrates said:

As a committee member of BRAG, I am happy to answer any questions and provide any information if can. If doing so is within the terms of service as promulagated by the moderating team of this esteemed forum. 

I don't wish to sound petty, and I appreciate there is a lot of good work going on in the FB group, but that message Griff reposted looks a bit poor with the various spelling mistakes in it. 

Sorry if that seems negative, but I think these little things are important if you are to be taken seriously.

[BroadAmbition]

Spelling mistakes or not - At Last, Finally - MP's and those with real power, (Those that are accountable) are very much taking this issue seriously

Griff

[Bikertov]

17 hours ago, BroadAmbition said:

Spelling mistakes or not - At Last, Finally - MP's and those with real power, (Those that are accountable) are very much taking this issue seriously

Griff

I totally agree, and hope my comment was not taken the wrong way. But as they say in politics, the "optics" are important, and poor spelling / lack of attention to detail can make a difference in how a matter is portrayed.

 

[socrates]

13 minutes ago, Bikertov said:

I totally agree, and hope my comment was not taken the wrong way. But as they say in politics, the "optics" are important, and poor spelling / lack of attention to detail can make a difference in how a matter is portrayed.

 

The original letters written by BRAG to MP's etc were reviewed by several people (including a solicitor, former teacher, and trade union activist) before they were sent. The post may have contained errors which as a result of haste to disseminate the news. I can assure you these communications were appropriate and fit for purpose.

[Bikertov]

6 minutes ago, socrates said:

The original letters written by BRAG to MP's etc were reviewed by several people (including a solicitor, former teacher, and trade union activist) before they were sent. The post may have contained errors which as a result of haste to disseminate the news. I can assure you these communications were appropriate and fit for purpose.

That is certainly good to hear.

I will reiterate that I'm sure there is a lot of good work going on in, and as a result of, the FB group. Long may it continue and be successful !

[Smoggy]

No matter what I do I can't seem to get the faceache page to come up, I do have a faceache login even though I don't 'do faceache' as it's sometimes handy to find out what's going on in town, needless to say I don't use my name on there and don't post any info about me.

[MauriceMynah]

2 hours ago, Smoggy said:

I don't use my name on there and don't post any info about me.

Very wise.

[Vaughan]

After a phone conversation to friends in Norfolk I have heard that the BRAG facebook page has been closed to posting due to too many people getting offensive and in-appropriate.

I suppose it was inevitable that this would implode at some point and I do wish this action could have been conducted via a more credible and respected debating platform.

 

[Paladin]

23 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

After a phone conversation to friends in Norfolk I have heard that the BRAG facebook page has been closed to posting due to too many people getting offensive and in-appropriate.

I suppose it was inevitable that this would implode at some point and I do wish this action could have been conducted via a more credible and respected debating platform.

 

The group hasn't imploded, nor has it been closed. The Facebook group has been paused, i.e. no new posts or comments, while other options are considered. Existing content remains.

The BRAG committee will be meeting tomorrow night (Wednesday) to consider those  options. Facebook was never going to be a long-term platform for the group. Simply too lawless.

[Maxwellian]

Good to hear Paladin. If they can hold it together and all go in the same direction, progress could be made.

[Vaughan]

37 minutes ago, Paladin said:

Facebook was never going to be a long-term platform for the group. Simply too lawless.

Exactly. But the NBN is what I mean by a "more credible and respected debating platform".

Except that this forum prefers to sit on its hands, respect the TOS at all costs and side-step the issue, while Broads navigation is in a crisis of mis-management the like of which we may never have known before.

We have a choice to stand up and be counted, or look back in a few short months or years to come and wonder if we were just "fiddling while Rome burns."

 

[Ray]

The thing is though Vaughan while I absolutely agree with you about the need for BA reform the NBN is a discussion forum run by folks who freely give their time despite having real life day jobs and commitments, it's not really fair to ask them or expect them to pick up the challenge of becoming a campaigning group... imagine the work and the hours that would require!

[Meantime]

In the meantime though this forum is still open for posting because it's not embroiled in politics. Continues to be the light relief that most want.

I hope BRAG setup their own forum and continue their good work. 

[FlyingFortress]

8 minutes ago, Meantime said:

In the meantime though this forum is still open for posting because it's not embroiled in politics. Continues to be the light relief that most want.

I hope BRAG setup their own forum and continue their good work. 

So do I MT.

To me it seemed to be the only viable option.

Unfortunately I would think that would entail some financial investment.

For us on the outside it's time to put our Hands in our pockets IMHO

Well it's better than The BA with their hands in there 😜

[ExSurveyor]

33 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

Except that this forum prefers to sit on its hands, respect the TOS at all costs and side-step the issue, while Broads navigation is in a crisis of mis-management the like of which we may never have known before.

And our decision has been validated by the issues that BRAG have experienced.

24 minutes ago, Ray said:

the NBN is a discussion forum run by folks who freely give their time despite having real life day jobs and commitments, it's not really fair to ask them or expect them to pick up the challenge of becoming a campaigning group... imagine the work and the hours that would require!

Thank you, it is easy to sit behind a keyboard and complain, try sitting on the receiving end, I probably spend over 15 hours a week monitoring the forum and dealing with unwanted and unpleasant issues that the membership never get to see.

I would not impose on the Mod team with the additional burden of mounting any campaign.

I do wish the BRAGs team success but I think they are now realising the huge amount of unexpected additional work involved with members, before they begin to campaign effectively.

[FlyingFortress]

21 minutes ago, FlyingFortress said:

So do I MT.

To me it seemed to be the only viable option.

Unfortunately I would think that would entail some financial investment.

For us on the outside it's time to put our Hands in our pockets IMHO

Well it's better than The BA with their hands in there 😜

Don't know if it's appropriate to post this but would it be a good idea for us to show our willingness or otherwise to financially support BRAG.

If it is allowed to stand I will be the first to declare that I am willing to make a financial contribution 

[BroadAmbition]

If it is allowed to stand I will be the first to declare that I am willing to make a financial contribution

I'll be right there with you

Griff

[ExSurveyor]

Any donations must be an individual decision, directly to, and in response to any campaign group appeal.

It would not be appropriate for anyone to pursue donations via this forum.

 

[Meantime]

29 minutes ago, FlyingFortress said:

Don't know if it's appropriate to post this but would it be a good idea for us to show our willingness or otherwise to financially support BRAG.

If it is allowed to stand I will be the first to declare that I am willing to make a financial contribution 

If I've read Paladins post correctly there is a meeting tomorrow night, presumably to discuss the way forward. It's probably prudent to await the outcome of the meeting. If they decide funds are needed, or a forum similar to this to better carry out reasoned debate, then count me in as well, but lets give them space to debate the way forward first.

[ExSurveyor]

Sadly, these days there is no platform that would reduce the infighting and off topic discussions. Forming a forum would still attract the same issues, the only way to control it would be hard moderation, that takes peoples time, and lots of it.

It also is very unpopular with anyone who is moderated.

I don't know how you can easily control and harness over a thousand individual views.

[bucket]

Count me in too.

[Ray]

29 minutes ago, ExSurveyor said:

 

I don't know how you can easily control and harness over a thousand individual views.

In earlier days of the internet I have Admined and Moderated on various platforms... herding cats would be a fair description I believe 😁

[floydraser]

I've had a look around and I think the most likely next step is that BRAG will become a website with managed membership. I really hope they carry on their excellent work in one form or another. 

I really didn't think it would last this long before the infighting had such an effect. To their great credit the comittee members have always been fairly quick to subdue things and constructive criticism was accepted with a degree of humility. I guess they finally got overwhelmed. 

[floydraser]

2 hours ago, Vaughan said:

Exactly. But the NBN is what I mean by a "more credible and respected debating platform".

Except that this forum prefers to sit on its hands, respect the TOS at all costs and side-step the issue, while Broads navigation is in a crisis of mis-management the like of which we may never have known before.

We have a choice to stand up and be counted, or look back in a few short months or years to come and wonder if we were just "fiddling while Rome burns."

 

I respectfully disagree Vaughan. BRAG in whatever form is presently the best place to discuss tactics for the wanted reform. Discussion in other places just spreads out the information.

This forum is perfect just as it is; well moderated and good content. Please let us not return to the old BA bashing days. Oh dear, I appear to have run out of ink....

[Paladin]

45 minutes ago, ExSurveyor said:

Sadly, these days there is no platform that would reduce the infighting and off topic discussions. Forming a forum would still attract the same issues, the only way to control it would be hard moderation, that takes peoples time, and lots of it.

It also is very unpopular with anyone who is moderated.

I don't know how you can easily control and harness over a thousand individual views.

The Norfolk and Suffolk Boating Association has around 1,000 individual members and a few dozen affiliated organisations. Having a subscription model and their own web site seems to work for them. The Broads Society, too, has a similar model, but is a registered charity.

Neither seems troubled by members trying to impose their views, but both of these organisations appear to have become moribund over the past few years, lacking the vitality needed to hold the Broads Authority to account.

BRAG has got a bit of catching up to do. I don’t know what options they will be discussing, but, in my view, the discussion forum format simply won’t work.