Reform The Broads Authority

[RS2021]

So this is the reason for mooring charges at Ranworth. To use toll money to fund the ranger and visitor centre would breach the ring fencing of funds for navigation. I bet the mooring charges (if they are ever charged), don't go in the navigation pot.

[Vaughan]

51 minutes ago, FlyingFortress said:

Also quite impressed with my own MP for getting involved 👍

I trust you wrote to him?

I am unable to do that as I am not a constituent in Norfolk, so I have been in detailed contact with the EDP reporter who wrote the first article, giving a lot of factual and historical information - as he requested in a post on the facebook site.   I wonder how many others took that offered opportunity to get their voice heard?  He tells me he has passed this information to his colleagues.  I dare to suggest that I can notice some of my input here, in this latest article.

This forum does not officially wish to get involved, although its very "raison d'être" is the Broads, its history and its future.  All the same, the personal efforts of a lot of its members "behind the scenes" may be starting to bear fruit.

[Vaughan]

James Knight is quoted in the article :

As a business, we have set the prices for the year.  It's our largest fixed cost and it went up with no hint that it was coming.

That is a member of the BA speaking.

I could have budgeted differently, for example not refurbished boats.

To me, that doesn't bode very well for the BA's green dreams of electric boats, if someone like James is left with no potential to invest in that technology.  After all, the yards like his will actually do the research, spend the money and make it work, if it turns out to be practical. 

 

[Meantime]

13 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

James Knight is quoted in the article :

As a business, we have set the prices for the year.  It's our largest fixed cost and it went up with no hint that it was coming.

That is a member of the BA speaking.

Yet I'm a lowly boat owner and I knew there would be a toll increase and knowing the BA it would be at least the rate of inflation. Which means either that James has been misquoted, exaggerated, or not a very good businessman.  We are talking about an EDP article here.

[grendel]

well it is possible that they were excluded from the discussions- as they were allegedly also excluded from the vote. 

[OldBerkshireBoy]

If you dont live local there is another minister you can write or email too and details are on the FB page.

[Bluebell]

I have emailed both my MP and the Secretary of State for the environment. Today I received a reply from my MP, pretty standard response pointing out there nothing as an MP he could do directly, but would, if l liked, forward my email to the BA to ensure they knew my views!

[Vaughan]

1 hour ago, Meantime said:

or not a very good businessman. 

Is that an informed comment?  Hire boat operators are in the seasonal tourist business and have to make their decisions a year in advance.  Not just from the marketing point of view, but to try and decide how much of a business overdraft you can afford, to cover the cost of materials and labour, to try and present your hire fleet in good order for next season's customers. 

1 hour ago, OldBerkshireBoy said:

If you dont live local there is another minister you can write or email to

Oh, please tell me about that!  I have just spent the last 3 days trying to extract my credit balance out of a bank where I have held my current account for sixty years, after they decided to close it, as well as cutting me off from all communication by "on line" or telephone banking.  And all this because of BREXIT. 

So I am made to feel like an alien to my own country.  At least I still appear to be allowed to own my own boat on the Norfolk Broads, so I will continue to "fight my corner" from there.

 

[FlyingFortress]

4 hours ago, Vaughan said:

Is that an informed comment?  Hire boat operators are in the seasonal tourist business and have to make their decisions a year in advance.  Not just from the marketing point of view, but to try and decide how much of a business overdraft you can afford, to cover the cost of materials and labour, to try and present your hire fleet in good order for next season's customers. 

Oh, please tell me about that!  I have just spent the last 3 days trying to extract my credit balance out of a bank where I have held my current account for sixty years, after they decided to close it, as well as cutting me off from all communication by "on line" or telephone banking.  And all this because of BREXIT. 

So I am made to feel like an alien to my own country.  At least I still appear to be allowed to own my own boat on the Norfolk Broads, so I will continue to "fight my corner" from there.

 

So write to your MP.

Oh just remembered you live in France 😞

[Meantime]

5 hours ago, Vaughan said:

Is that an informed comment?  Hire boat operators are in the seasonal tourist business and have to make their decisions a year in advance.  Not just from the marketing point of view, but to try and decide how much of a business overdraft you can afford, to cover the cost of materials and labour, to try and present your hire fleet in good order for next season's customers. 

Actually YES, James was quoted as saying 

 

7 hours ago, Vaughan said:

and it went up with no hint that it was coming.

Now as sure as Winter turns to Spring, there WILL be a toll rise, the only unknown is how much, but then again this is the BA we are talking about, so a "sensible" businessman would guestimate higher rather than lower!!!!! Certainly only a village idiot would expect no rise!!!!!

So I repeat either James was misquoted, or exaggerated, or was just plainly a very bad businessman, which you and I both know he isn't.

[floydraser]

10 hours ago, FlyingFortress said:

Maybe I was wrong about the FB group. Happy if I am. 👍

Just to be clear, the letter to Bill Dickson from the MPs was the result of requests from the BHBF and nothing to do with the FB page. I don't mean to put down what the FB page may achieve but credit where it's due. I note the article has no mention of social media in any form.

[Vaughan]

8 hours ago, Meantime said:

Actually YES, James was quoted as saying 

 

16 hours ago, Vaughan said:

and it went up with no hint that it was coming.

On reading the article again, including the MPs' letter to the BA, it is clear that toll rises are normally announced in November, following discussion with the BHBF and the nav committee.  So this year, why was there apparently no discussion and if there was, why were boatyard members excluded from it and why was it only announced two weeks ago?  What is so special about this year, that this rise has been hidden until now?

And, of course, what is it supposed to be for?

Sorry Meantime, but you cannot budget for the winter maintenance and presentation of a hire fleet, let alone consider building new ones, if you don't even know what your fixed costs are going to be until halfway through the month of January!

James will have done his business plan for this year way back in September, not now.

[Meantime]

I'm sorry Vaughan, but I have read your reply several times and all you appear to be doing is confirming the point I'm trying to make  You say,

21 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

James will have done his business plan for this year way back in September, not now.

and you also say,

21 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

it is clear that toll rises are normally announced in November,

Which to me is crystal clear that even in any normal year James would have no idea what the forthcoming toll rise would be when he sets his budget. The one thing that would be known is that there will be an increase of some sort, just not how much. I cannot remember the last time there was no annual toll increase.

So I repeat a sensible businessman would make an allowance even if they  did not know the exact figure. Last September I could have very easily made an educated guess at 10 or 11% increase. To claim that he had no idea there would be an increase in toll for the next year, to use a local term, is utter squit.

So I repeat again that James either exaggerated, was misquoted or is just not a very good businessman, and we both know the answer to that last one, which really only leaves him exaggerating and if you know James, then you would know that is a good possibility, or it was the good ole EDP high standard of journalism again!!!!

[floydraser]

Reading the article again I think Mr Knight is just trying to make his case and should be supported.

[BroadAmbition]

Reading the article again I think Mr Knight is just trying to make his case and should be supported.

Spot on.

You would have thought what with austerity, inflationary pressures, strikes, redundancy, tail end of a pandemic that once, just once the blessed authority would have budgeted for an increase in line with inflation as their upper limit.  But no, yet again an above inflation rise that on top of inflation busting rises dating back to 2007 (Probably back further than that - I've not looked)

Griff

[Ray]

Not forgetting 'special projects' I don't know the technical accounting term here but a few years ago there was a need for a floating pontoon mooring somewhere near Oulton (sorry for vague details, this is just an example) An additional sum was added to the tolls for this specific project, but was included every subsequent year and still is. I queried this with Mr Packman at the time and he confirmed their accounting practice when considering tolls was to use the previous year as a starting point, including such projects.

This of course means that every time there is such a so called "one of" project it is paid for again and again, every subsequent year!

[Vaughan]

10 minutes ago, Ray said:

This of course means that every time there is such a so called "one of" project it is paid for again and again, every subsequent year!

Exactly.  But what is the "one off" reason this year?  Unless, as suggested in the press, it is to use toll fund money for other "NP" expenses?

 

2 hours ago, Meantime said:

and if you know James,

I do know James, actually :  He is my brother -in-law.

[Vaughan]

2 hours ago, Meantime said:

which really only leaves him exaggerating and if you know James, then you would know that is a good possibility, or it was the good ole EDP high standard of journalism again!!!!

I know James as one of the most honest and forthright people I have met.  His problem (perhaps just like mine) may be that he does not "suffer fools gladly".

Of course he realised there would be an increase in tolls this year!  But did he have any indication that they would be way over existing, or predicted, rates of inflation?  And did he have any more idea than the rest of us, how the BA could justify that increase?

As to the EDP, I note that their reporting has been much more aggressive in this area lately.  They have been accused in the past, even on this forum, of being poodles of the BA.

Could it be that there is a wind of change?

[BroadAmbition]

As expected just received 'B.A's renewal notice for the 2023 river toll - Yep increased by 13% - Happy days

  

Griff

[PaulN]

11 minutes ago, BroadAmbition said:

As expected just received 'B.A's renewal notice for the 2023 river toll - Yep increased by 13% - Happy days

  

Griff

Yep Happy Daze!

[Mouldy]

22 minutes ago, BroadAmbition said:

As expected just received 'B.A's renewal notice for the 2023 river toll - Yep increased by 13% - Happy days

  

Griff

Ours has gone up by just shy of £55.  For those that don’t know, it’s calculated on the size of the boat in square metres and ours is a relatively modest 28m2.  Makes me glad we don’t have anything much bigger.

[PaulN]

10 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

Ours has gone up by just shy of £55.  For those that don’t know, it’s calculated on the size of the boat in square metres and ours is a relatively modest 28m2.  Makes me glad we don’t have anything much bigger.

Ours has gone up by £78.40, they are slowly killing their cash cow.

[floydraser]

Mine's gone up £80.36. Definitely my last year.

[MauriceMynah]

Yep, mines up £90. Hey ho.

[ExSurveyor]

The toll rises are nothing in comparison to the rises in mooring fees, £200 to £300. I haven't seen any complaints about that being unreasonable considering they are mainly renting out land and quay headings with much lower staffing levels.

Both are unwelcome.