Good Or Bad Year?

[MauriceMynah]

My personal experience is that September is the busiest month, much for the reasons Jeep15 says.

[MauriceMynah]

Thinks...   can ones experience be anything other than personal?

[DAVIDH]

The Broads hasn't lost it's appeal. There are just too many competing drains for people's money at the moment. 

1. Mortgage fixed rates have risen, or will rise for up to two million households over the next 12 months
2. The cost of living has soared, food, fuel, insurance etc, etc.
3. The hire companies raised prices to a captive market over the Covid years and have not reduced them back down. 
4. The fuel subsidies paid by the government last year have been discontinued for the coming winter
5. People do not feel well off and are cautious with their spending
6. I think a good proportion of bookings were actually people's second and/or third holidays, which are being cut back due to the reasons above. 

The poor weather has had an effect this year. Many people do leave it late to book, especially in the summer school holiday weeks. They ordinarily never sell out until a few weeks before. The  Covid years were an exception. I read in the travel trade press how holidaymakers have turned their backs on the UK and booked a holiday abroad to escape the poor weather. I think next year will be tough unless prices come down and people start to feel less cash-strapped. And as Vaughan says, memories of a wet week on the Broads do nothing to your desire to return, unless you are already a perennial visitor.

[MauriceMynah]

When we talk about booking late, or at short notice, how late? how short a notice?

I don't understand unless we are talking "days" before the holiday, how can they expect to know what the weather is likely to do.

Also, when I was employed, I had to book my holidays with the company I worked for, months in advance.

I can't see how this year's poor summer can have affected this year's bookings. 

Again  I must be missing something. 

[rightsaidfred]

5 hours ago, DAVIDH said:

The Broads hasn't lost it's appeal. There are just too many competing drains for people's money at the moment. 

1. Mortgage fixed rates have risen, or will rise for up to two million households over the next 12 months
2. The cost of living has soared, food, fuel, insurance etc, etc.
3. The hire companies raised prices to a captive market over the Covid years and have not reduced them back down. 
4. The fuel subsidies paid by the government last year have been discontinued for the coming winter
5. People do not feel well off and are cautious with their spending
6. I think a good proportion of bookings were actually people's second and/or third holidays, which are being cut back due to the reasons above. 

The poor weather has had an effect this year. Many people do leave it late to book, especially in the summer school holiday weeks. They ordinarily never sell out until a few weeks before. The  Covid years were an exception. I read in the travel trade press how holidaymakers have turned their backs on the UK and booked a holiday abroad to escape the poor weather. I think next year will be tough unless prices come down and people start to feel less cash-strapped. And as Vaughan says, memories of a wet week on the Broads do nothing to your desire to return, unless you are already a perennial visitor.

While I respect your trade knowledge the only one  I can fully agree with is number 6, the trend from before covid has been to use the Broads as a short break not main holiday for many, people who are dedicated Broads visitors don't usually wait till the last minuet to book their holiday

Fred

 

[Vaughan]

6 hours ago, DAVIDH said:

The Broads hasn't lost it's appeal.

Thank you David and I agree with what you say. Except for that first sentence!

My big concern is partly "where do they come from and why do they book" but mainly these days, I am very worried about "how do they enjoy the Broads when they get here".

In this sense I am certain that the Broads is seriously losing its appeal.  I have asked before - do people still have the same FUN any more?  Nowadays there is too much of a struggle to find moorings, to the extent that it becomes stressful.

The Broads is a great holiday for children.  I grew up there!  But then in the old days most hire boats went out towing a sailing dinghy.  This gives so much more flexibility and eases the strain on the moorings.  Imagine - you arrive in the afternoon and drop the weight on Malthouse Broad.  The kids can spend the rest of the afternoon sailing and exploring, having their own in fun in safety.  All they have to be told is to stay within sight of the cruiser.  The dog can be rowed ashore to the island for walks.  In the evening the adults row ashore for a drink in the pub and then have happy memories of the rather wobbly experience of trying to find their cruiser again, in the dark!

I have often seen about 50 boats on weights on Malthouse Broad and I remember when the whole riverbank on the other side from Lower St in Horning was just earth bank with free moorings, almost all the way from the Ferry and round the Swan corner.  It wasn't that long ago!  So most of the hire boats moored there for free and rowed the dinghy across to the pubs and shops, which thrived as a result. 

But then sure enough, greed entered the equation and everyone started charging for moorings.  And look at the sad commercial state of Horning village now.

 

 

[Roy]

15 hours ago, kpnut said:

As I was reading this thread and getting things in my head, I was going to post that the Broads area is scruffy compared with lots of holiday areas. Now, I don’t mind that at all, (although I do think even in the past 6 years the place has gone downhill), but if you’ve spent out £2000 I think you would be. 
We, who are regular visitors see the place with different eyes to a first time holiday maker. And we realise that some of the scruffiness is just the wild nature of the environment. But some basics like screened off rubbish facilities, well positioned picnic benches with neatly mown grass on some moorings and the like go a long way to a good first impression. Definitely not saying that all moorings need this, but ask why Ranworth and Womack are so popular - they are little central hubs, picturesque (even with the goose poo)! Coltishall is another place with a sort of ‘continental vibe’ to it - nice pub, nicely kept green space, village nearby. 

In many places I’ve visited on the continent, you get somewhere next to a river/lake etc and it’s inviting. A little parade of shops, selling icecream and drinks, somewhere to sit while the kids entertain themselves with a swing or seesaw. Go to Reedham or Acle Bridge, or Ludham Bridge and it should be the same. But somehow it’s not. 
 

I personally don’t need these things, but even the ‘outdoor types’ mentioned above that should be a target group, might have experienced these things abroad and be impressed by the same here. Consider the ‘aire’ at Wroxham, opposite the stern on moorings. In France there are plenty of these riverside/canalside stop off points for motor homes etc, with nice neat pitches, sometimes marked out with low growing hedges. In Wroxham you are in the corner of a rough piece of concrete. 
 

To attract holidaymakers the area has to be attractive to them. Tart it up with casinos, nightclubs etc and it becomes alien to many, while attracting many others, but providing nothing doesn’t really attract anyone. 

Thd real beauty of a broads boating holiday should be adventure, and nature mixed in with that holiday vibe of a few picturesque scenes and a few treats along the way. Lovely photos of sunsets are not the only thing people want on a costly holiday. 

Hi Kate you’re absolutely right about some areas are scruffy now! 

  Take the riverside park at wroxham it’s a total disgrace half is shut off and overgrown and the half that is open doesn’t get mown regularly it’s not like it was when it first opened the circle gravel area with benches around if this was my first impression of wroxham while waiting to pick up a boat from a yard in wroxham I’d certainly be thinking what is everywhere else like. 
 

its also again in wroxham the precinct all the flower tubs have been left empty and are full of weeds it just looks bad to a visitor where I live we have aylsham in bloom who look after all our flowers tubs shame this can’t be done in wroxham especially as it’s supposed to be the capital of the broads. 

[rightsaidfred]

Reflecting back over the various opinions there is one thing nobody seems to have picked up on regarding the reduction in holiday bookings.

Most of us private owners were the hirers who made up a large section of the return holiday market the yards relied on, when interest  rates bottomed out many bought luxury goods rather than leave money sitting in the bank earning nothing, this included an upturn in private boat ownership.

Around this time and shortly after many of the small hire yards found it harder to remain viable having lost the nucleus of their customer base and converted to private marinas for the increasing demand for moorings,  this has been compounded by the increase in the trend for the casual second holiday short breaks that have made up a large part of the hiring market in recent years, in the present climate many people can no longer justify a holiday let alone additional breaks.

Fred

[MauriceMynah]

Oddly enough, I think there has been another factor involved albeit somewhat at a tangent.

Pub all day opening hours.

Back in the 10:30 to 14:30 then 17:30 to 22:30 days, people used to moor up at lunch time, then move off and moor somewhere else for the evening. 

I suspect these days most holiday makers moor just the once per day, causing the favourite places to be full by midday. This manifests itself as a lack of moorings.

Before people start jumping up and down saying "we don't all moor outside pubs" I know that, but a lot of us do !

[DJB]

I live 90 minutes from Wroxham and can take annual leave pretty much at the drop of the hat. I'm in an ideal position to take advantage of any last minute deals.

I have looked regularly this spring/summer and haven't found anything that doesn't feel like a rip off. Broads Direct seemed to have had boats available all summer but their prices have remained stubbornly high for just the two of us.

We are having a week away beginning October 27 and are hiring a cottage in the North East for a week. That's costing £447. For a very rough comparison I found a place in Rackheath for the same period for £589.

I'm not suggesting that boat prices should come down to that level but that's significantly less than the £1150 Broads Direct want for a boat that isn't matchbox size.

 

 

 

 

 

[Smoggy]

7 hours ago, Vaughan said:

Nowadays there is too much of a struggle to find moorings, to the extent that it becomes stressful.

This is precisely the reason we very rarely venture to the northern rivers, along with having to pay to moor just to use the pubs when we know we'll likely eat in and keep buying beer till chucked out.

The south would be the perfect place if it wasn't for those monsters and sea serpents.

[MrBlueSky]

Last night I was in Great Yarmouth drinking in the Oliver Twist at £3.00 a pint,nice pub,good jukebox,pool table ,large tv and a very attractive barmaid.On Monday I will be on the broads paying £5.00 for the same pint ,where mine host will be looking to kick everyone out by 9.30.Too add insult to injury the pub will probably have already charged me to moor up.

I find it difficult to blame Mr Packman for the feeling of being ripped off by the Broads leisure industry as a whole but each year that feeling has been getting worse.For years we have been coming twice a year for 11 night boating holidays but this will be our last one.Value for money,it is not.

[Smoggy]

 

8 minutes ago, MrBlueSky said:

Last night I was in Great Yarmouth drinking in the Oliver Twist at £3.00 a pint,nice pub,good jukebox,pool table ,large tv and a very attractive barmaid.On Monday I will be on the broads paying £5.00 for the same pint ,where mine host will be looking to kick everyone out by 9.30.Too add insult to injury the pub will probably have already charged me to moor up.

I find it difficult to blame Mr Packman for the feeling of being ripped off by the Broads leisure industry as a whole but each year that feeling has been getting worse.For years we have been coming twice a year for 11 night boating holidays but this will be our last one.Value for money,it is not.

Then try the southern rivers and pubs.

[DAVIDH]

22 hours ago, MauriceMynah said:

When we talk about booking late, or at short notice, how late? how short a notice?

When Herbert Woods put out their 40% discount offer earlier in August, there was still enough of an audience who hadn't already booked to mop up their remaining unsold fleet. From memory, I think they had 16 or 17 cruisers unsold on each of the weeks. Some people do leave it late to book and are influenced by the weather...unless the offer is too good to turn down. 

[DAVIDH]

17 hours ago, Vaughan said:

Nowadays there is too much of a struggle to find moorings, to the extent that it becomes stressful.

Yes, I agree with this Vaughan. I think I highlighted it earlier on another thread. More needs to be done to "find" moorings for the newcomers if they aren't going to be disenchanted and slope off never to return. 

[riverman]

I don't think it's that hire boats are too expensive, it's that a broads holiday represents extremely poor value for money by modern standards. 

We often discuss this at work, we'll be in Hoveton sitting down having a brew on the barge, looking around and asking, what is there to do here? 

Nothing, the answer is nothing. Other than Bewilderwood there has been no major investment into anything that anyone would want to actually go to for years. 

'Well you can stop at the pubs' .... right 👍 Let's not beat around the bush, by modern standards, most of them aren't great and they charge absurd prices. 

'You can look at the wildlife and all the nature' ... but you could stay in a cottage slightly further away, for a fraction of the price, drive to Neatishead Boardwalk etc and explore on foot.

Why is Hoveton/Wroxham a run down mess and not the Henley of the broads? Or Beccles for that matter? Why aren't there more events that holidaymakers can an engage in? Why is there no where to go? Why is there nothing to do? Why is there no where to moor?

Pre-rona price hike a broads holiday represented reasonable-ish value for money, now it doesn't. Unfortunately, for far too long the hire boats were cheaper than they should have been, so putting prices back down isn't really an option. The only option is investment and a willingness from those in a place of authority to let the broads go forward. From my experience, and as you can see at the moment in the hospitality sector, people are still very willing to spend money, if there getting decent value for it. 

 

 

[floydraser]

14 hours ago, MrBlueSky said:

Last night I was in Great Yarmouth drinking in the Oliver Twist at £3.00 a pint,nice pub,good jukebox,pool table ,large tv and a very attractive barmaid.On Monday I will be on the broads paying £5.00 for the same pint ,where mine host will be looking to kick everyone out by 9.30.Too add insult to injury the pub will probably have already charged me to moor up.

I find it difficult to blame Mr Packman for the feeling of being ripped off by the Broads leisure industry as a whole but each year that feeling has been getting worse.For years we have been coming twice a year for 11 night boating holidays but this will be our last one.Value for money,it is not.

I'm not sure the Oliver Twist sounds attractive to someone with a family who's just paid three grand to hire a boat, unless it also has outside dining with a decent view, at reasonable prices?

In the other ear I've been told to avoid GY like the plague.

I've recently been to London twice as a tourist - £6.50 to £7 a pint and the places are all packed.

So according to this forum Wroxham/Hoveton is going downhill, pubs are closing or expensive and there's few places to visit with easy mooring. Maybe there should be a reduced rate toll for us floating caravanners. 

[Hylander]

46 minutes ago, floydraser said:

I've recently been to London twice as a tourist - £6.50 to £7 a pint and the places are all packed.

 

We went to a certain hotel in North Norfolk and were charge £32 for two small glasses of white wine.      I got the bill altered to £8 a glass but they didnt like it.       Who is ever going to go back to a place to be given these extortionate prices. In Wells,    Ice creams, a basic cornet not even a  99 was £3.50 ,   £3.50 for a cornet.     No I did not buy them.   

[Troyboy]

1 hour ago, riverman said:

I don't think it's that hire boats are too expensive, it's that a broads holiday represents extremely poor value for money by modern standards. 

We often discuss this at work, we'll be in Hoveton sitting down having a brew on the barge, looking around and asking, what is there to do here? 

 👍 

 

 

Your first sentence seems to be a contradiction. I love hiring boats but I think it is expensive.

We all look for different things in the broads but I never sit on the boat and wonder what there is to do. For me it's a magical place. The quieter the better. 

I can understand new boaters not knowing all of the places to moor but there is enough not to get stressed about it. 

[Happy]

58 minutes ago, Hylander said:

We went to a certain hotel in North Norfolk and were charge £32 for two small glasses of white wine.      I got the bill altered to £8 a glass but they didnt like it.       Who is ever going to go back to a place to be given these extortionate prices. In Wells,    Ice creams, a basic cornet not even a  99 was £3.50 ,   £3.50 for a cornet.     No I did not buy them.   

I would expect two bottles at those prices! 

[Meantime]

There is no disputing it's not been a good year this year, but has it been a bad year, or an average year?

Just after Covid there was probably a couple of excellent years and yes it is quieter this year for all manner of reasons, and yes various Directors of boat hire firms may not be looking to replace their Porsche or 4x4 this year, but has it really been a bad year?

Maybe this year was needed to force a correction to prices for next year. Some price hikes were explained away by additional Covid measures, but those same prices didn't go down once Covid restrictions eased. Instead they jumped on the latest bandwagon, the cost of living and hiked prices again.

Maybe its time to re-evaluate pricing and accept for now that the post Covid boom has gone and time to accept average again.

[MauriceMynah]

If people want "things to do" send them to Butlins. If they want to chill, relax and enjoy the peace and tranquility the Broads has to offer, then they've come to the right place.

The Broads hasn't changed that much since the 60s in that respect. Entertainment is what you make it. Messing about in dinghies, fishing and drinking are all still there just as they always have been. 

I was 11 in 65 when we first came, and loved it. Saying that, its not a holiday that will suit all kids, but those who do like it will be the next generation of boaters.

Do we want more playgrounds for people to walk their dogs in? I'm not sure.

The Broads will evolve, and will do so pleasingly if not rushed.

The good Dr. wants to advertise the Broads to a wider audience. Well, to be honest, I think I'm wide enough as it is.

 

[Aboattime]

50 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

If people want "things to do" send them to Butlins. If they want to chill, relax and enjoy the peace and tranquility the Broads has to offer, then they've come to the right place.

The Broads hasn't changed that much since the 60s in that respect. Entertainment is what you make it. Messing about in dinghies, fishing and drinking are all still there just as they always have been. 

I was 11 in 65 when we first came, and loved it. Saying that, its not a holiday that will suit all kids, but those who do like it will be the next generation of boaters.

Do we want more playgrounds for people to walk their dogs in? I'm not sure.

The Broads will evolve, and will do so pleasingly if not rushed.

The good Dr. wants to advertise the Broads to a wider audience. Well, to be honest, I think I'm wide enough as it is.

 

Nice to know that there are a few of us born in 54 still around and enjoying the Broads.

[Hylander]

Blimey I was born in 1945 ,  I hope there are many more like me still around,  I intend to live until I am in my 100s.   So look out.

 

 

[MargeandParge]

2 hours ago, MauriceMynah said:

If people want "things to do" send them to Butlins. If they want to chill, relax and enjoy the peace and tranquility the Broads has to offer, then they've come to the right place.

The Broads hasn't changed that much since the 60s in that respect. Entertainment is what you make it. Messing about in dinghies, fishing and drinking are all still there just as they always have been. 

I was 11 in 65 when we first came, and loved it. Saying that, its not a holiday that will suit all kids, but those who do like it will be the next generation of boaters.

Do we want more playgrounds for people to walk their dogs in? I'm not sure.

The Broads will evolve, and will do so pleasingly if not rushed.

The good Dr. wants to advertise the Broads to a wider audience. Well, to be honest, I think I'm wide enough as it is.

 

Just a reflection on this post is that so many require Internet now, rather than live in their holiday moment and enjoy it there seems to be a need to make sure they are having a good time by comparing their situation with the rest of the planet. 

Good holiday write ups with all sorts of  comments are fantastic and the knowledge,of a friendly forum such as this is a wonderful asset to an Internet connection but some use other formats to try and justify what they are up to rather than enjoying their moment. 

People are changing, sometimes just to be different and seem to be losing so many good times. 

Kindest  Regards Marge and Parge