Good Or Bad Year?

[Hylander]

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/23783378.norfolk-broads-hire-boat-firms-risk-toll-increases/

 

 

[grendel]

my guess is that this may be the reason so many hire boats are put on the for sale list every winter (as they then dont need to be tolled until they are not sold and go back into the hire fleet the next year,) and any that do sell are a bonus income.

I think JP is delusional when he says all the boats that are disappearing from the broads are just small private ones, as I think its both those and hire boats being sold and headed to other waterways, but he has to say that, as its the only way he can justify putting the tolls up even more next year to cover the shortfall, (I dont think he can see that excessive toll rises is just killing the golden goose and further reducing the income from tolls - it puts up hire prices, reduces the number of boats hiring out and encourages people to move away).

[Vaughan]

Seems JP blames the whole thing on the weather!

[Ray]

7 minutes ago, grendel said:

my guess is that this may be the reason so many hire boats are put on the for sale list every winter (as they then dont need to be tolled until they are not sold and go back into the hire fleet the next year,) and any that do sell are a bonus income.

I think JP is delusional when he says all the boats that are disappearing from the broads are just small private ones, as I think its both those and hire boats being sold and headed to other waterways, but he has to say that, as its the only way he can justify putting the tolls up even more next year to cover the shortfall, (I dont think he can see that excessive toll rises is just killing the golden goose and further reducing the income from tolls - it puts up hire prices, reduces the number of boats hiring out and encourages people to move away).

This not only rings true but aligns with the "feeling" always in the background of BA decisions (or at least those coming direct from Dr Packman) that discouraging motor vessel use and\or eventually eliminating it is a desirable goal!

[Gracie]

The man is now blaming it on the weather 

1 hour ago, Ray said:

This not only rings true but aligns with the "feeling" always in the background of BA decisions (or at least those coming direct from Dr Packman) that discouraging motor vessel use and\or eventually eliminating it is a desirable goal!

This frightens me Ray but I fear you are so right. I fear for the future of the Broads and boating as it would seem the authorities and the weather  are actively working against us x

[Meantime]

For a seemingly intelligent person, he can make some very stupid comments!

The toll year runs from the 1st April. Most privateers toll their boat during March or early April, at that point it is way to soon to have known whether it was going to be a good Summer weather wise or not.

The weather had very little to do with people not tolling their boat this year. On the other hand the single biggest thing that put people off was the extortionate toll increase.

However, next year will be even worse no matter how big or small the toll increase is. How many who scraped together enough to go boating this year are going to be saying, not again, not going to risk another bad Summer like last year, lets save our pounds for somewhere we can guarantee the weather.

[MauriceMynah]

The weather in this country has always been fickle, something that I suspect has been noticed by the hire boat industry.

We used to have a posting member here who often warned us of the Dr's ambitions,  perhaps too often, but his prophecies seem to be just over the horizon now.

Packman's blind eye to the obvious is becoming frightening. 

[Matt]

It’s almost as if the Government wanted people to stop spending money to bring down inflation….. 

[Chelsea14Ian]

I think there needs to be a complete  overall  of pricing.Including tolls,hire charges,mooring fees etc.Theres no doubt,cost of living has had a very big part in less people  visiting  the broads.Is the broads  and indeed is Norfolk  and Suffolk  promoting enough?.Tonight there's a series  on Channel 5 ,which started  last week.Which I think is very good.Perhaps more programs like this may help. There seems to be countless  programs  about Devon and Cornwall which goes a long way in promoting both county's. If done in a sympathetically way that may help.Its no good  just promoting the broads as a National Part.Its like saying we do really good food.Then not seeing any food. 

[marshman]

The broads hire industry has always been cyclical - and things are no different now.

Perhaps its nothing to do with the weather but more to do with foreign holidays seemingly buoyant and I expect fewer people are taking short breaks, in addition to their main holiday.

I expect it will survive very much as previously - are tolls on the Broads higher than elsewhere? I doubt it! Yards have always sold off boats at the end of the season, but don't expect bargains - that never happens and come the spring they will be back out again.

There is still a reasonable secondhand market for quality Broads boats and this is kept alive by the continuing lack of new boats being built. Few yards, or indeed firms have the skills and ability to do that. 

[floydraser]

George Thompson, local democracy reporter. Looks like a character from Miss Marple. But anyway:

"Senior members of the Broads Authority (BA) have warned that a triple whammy of poor weather, cost-of-living pressures and controversial toll increases had hammered some boating businesses."

His words in print but has he used the word "controversial" to embelish the article or do the "senior members of the Broads Authority" say it's controversial?

Subtle but important difference; if it's the latter then it would seem to indicate that some members didn't agree with the increase, or did but are now having second thoughts. I doubt it. It's the EDP so probably just their version of what they loosely call journalism.

[annv]

How doe's a 13% increase in tolls equate to £200=00 a week increase in hire charges. John

[Aboattime]

Could not one reason be for a bad season be......... i have a significant birthday next year the family said what would you like to do in May to celebrate?A short break for all of us{6 aduilts 2 under 6year old and a dog} on a boat} i thought,3 nights on a very tired older cruiser £1700.....So i decided against it,still gonna go to Norfolk,but not on the broads.

[Broads01]

Has the toll increase led to an increased number of non-payers impacting on the deficit?

[OldBerkshireBoy]

11 minutes ago, Broads01 said:

Has the toll increase led to an increased number of non-payers impacting on the deficit?

Yes from what I have been told.

[Mouldy]

2 minutes ago, OldBerkshireBoy said:

Yes from what I have been told.

If that’s the case, it’s about time some effort was put into prosecuting the ones who don’t, instead of penalising the ones that do.  😡

[OldBerkshireBoy]

1 minute ago, Mouldy said:

If that’s the case, it’s about time some effort was put into prosecuting the ones who don’t, instead of penalising the ones that do.  😡

I thought I read here and elsewhere that prosecutions were taking place.

[Bikertov]

7 hours ago, Vaughan said:

Seems JP blames the whole thing on the weather!

... and by extension Global Warming !

[Mouldy]

12 minutes ago, OldBerkshireBoy said:

I thought I read here and elsewhere that prosecutions were taking place.

I read something about speeding and associated prosecutions.

[Vaughan]

1 hour ago, floydraser said:

George Thompson, local democracy reporter. Looks like a character from Miss Marple. But anyway:

Young, fresh and inexperienced apprentices used to "cut their teeth" in provincial journalism on what was called "Births, Deaths and Marriages".  I suppose local democracy is the new politically acceptable title for that level of actual local knowledge.

[Bikertov]

So the BA want it both ways then ... to turn the Broads into a Boat Free Zone, but then to raise more money from tolls from an ever decreasing fleet to fill the financial shortfall ?

It's a bit like income tax - raise the levels too much and the "rich" people who pay the biggest proportion leave the country. Remember - you have a boat (or car etc), therefore you must be "rich" and can afford it.

Then the remaining middle earners are the one who are left to shoulder the burden most

Maybe if they spent the money they get more wisely, they might not have a shortfall - and that goes not just for the tolls but general taxation and spending too !

[MauriceMynah]

1 hour ago, annv said:

How doe's a 13% increase in tolls equate to £200=00 a week increase in hire charges. John

It doesn't say that.

I know I'm thought of as picky with the English language but this is a good example of misleading people by letting them misread what's actually been said. 

What the article says is that the toll has increased by £200 for the type of boat that's hired out. The fact he says "weekly" is irrelevant but leads the reader to make the assumption you made.

[Vaughan]

3 hours ago, marshman said:

The broads hire industry has always been cyclical - and things are no different now.

Oh yes, they are. I have known all of these cycles since the early 50s and each one has been worse.

 

3 hours ago, marshman said:

I expect it will survive very much as previously

There used to be 3000 hire boats ; now there are less than 700 and getting less almost as we speak.  There were  over a hundred boatyards all providing service, moorings and infrastructure.  Now there are little more than a handful.  You call that much as previously?   The reason we, private owners, complain about the lack of moorings and facilities is because of the catastrophic  and continuing decline in the hire boat business.

3 hours ago, marshman said:

There is still a reasonable secondhand market for quality Broads boats

Plenty of boats, but at what price?  A recession in the hire boat business has always been followed by the bottom falling out of the secondhand boat market.  It is already happening if you compare prices from last year to this.  Plenty of boats for sale, but for how long will they continue to sell?

Owning a medium size motor cruiser on a marina or boatyard mooring is now costing around £4000 a year in fixed costs, before you ever fill the diesel tank and take it down the river, with your wallet handy to pay all the mooring fees.  The secondhand boat market will not support that level of cost for much longer.  Believe me.  Even at today's prices it is cheaper to hire a boat for a couple of weeks in off season, than to own one.

We have to "fess up" to this - boating on the Broads as we have known and loved it is in grave danger of never being the same again as it is threatened from many different directions.  Too many of these threats come from the Authorities themselves, who really should know better, when history is staring them in the face.

For Dr Packman to announce in public that the problem is down to the weather gives me no confidence whatever in the future of Broads navigation.

 

[marshman]

Vaughan - the Broads still look the same to me and I can remember them as long as you. Of course there are fewer hire boats and now more private boats, but NYA will tell you, and there is plenty of evidence to support this, that quality secondhand Broads boat still sell well! Now if you don't believe it thats up to you, and at the same time, I do not see masses of boats moving to other waterways, nor evidence the BA intend to shut down the rivers!

Of course there have been changes over nearly 75 years, or would you rather the Broads are taken back to the 50's? That would attract less people I promise you!!

 

 

[Vaughan]

7 minutes ago, marshman said:

Vaughan - the Broads still look the same to me and I can remember them as long as you.

You have your opinion and I have mine.

Time will tell and I think that will be sooner, rather than later.