A Few Questions I've Been Wondering Before I Go...

[William92]

Rather than learning these things on the water, so to speak, I'd like to check things out before I go!

1) Mudweighting in Barton Broad -

So, I've got this handy depth chart of the broad, obviously I wouldn't go beyond my dodgy red lines to mudweight (or would the bits along the channel to the west actually be ok during neap tides? Turkey broad is a big "no" from all the signs and warnings I've seen), but a lot of the "out of channel" areas (blue circles) appear to be at least no shallower than some areas of the channel (and the Ant further south at the Shoals!), so is it ok to mudweight there (example locations in the blue circles), or even to the north of the island in that other blue circle (how obstructive would that be, being within the channel? Would a wind-powered sailor in particular find it irksome? Broads holidays are sort of about competitive politeness and I want to annoy 0 people, except for my Dad when mooring). Lastly, I guess, I've never mudweighted in the past - how do you avoid the paranoia that you've not got a good stick in the mud? I want to be able to sleep without periodically checking to make sure I'm not about to clonk into Haven Bridge 😂and how much space do you need? 31' for the boat, so a 31' radius circle + some for the mudweight line at low tide especially... 40' radius?

2) Short (?) mooring lines on hire boats -

The mooring lines never feel long enough, with the gaps between posts sometimes it's felt like we've had to moor on posts that are too close to the boat, I think one time we even ended up relying on the pre-made loop on the end of a mooring line as it wouldn't reach a better post. And we've not ever been provided with a 3rd line for a spring... would hire yards have an issue with either bringing our own lines (not ideal, just additional expense and shouldn't be necessary as it's basic equipment) or with providing additional/longer lines on request? Or... am I just mooring wrong and the lines are fine, and I can probably not worry so much about the posts being "too close" to the boat? How long does a line need to be, really?

 

I'll probably think of more questions and I'll add them to the thread as I think of them, but these ones are the ones that I've got so far!

[catcouk]

Sorry I can't help with mud weighting as I've only slept once (and that was on Salhouse Broad). My only advice would be, especially on Barton, don't attempt it if there's any wind forecast!

With regard to mooring ropes, I agree they can be a little short but I've never found them to be a problem. All the boats I've hired (with Richardson's or Herbert Woods) have had four lines: two fore and two aft. On the upper rivers, I've never really bothered with springs (unless it's windy and exposed) but I have always been able to put springs on. What yard are you hiring from?

[Mouldy]

I’m fairly certain that it’s safe to mudweight outside the channel across most of the broad.  You’ll find that much of the area you’ve marked at the Irstead end is now marked off for some environmental project, but the areas nearer to Gayes Staithe, you’ll often see craft mudweighted there too.  It would be inadvisable to mudweight in the main channel, to be honest.  Leave plenty of slack in your rope and I wouldn’t mudweight if it were windy.

Having a dog on board means that it’s not an option open to us, but look to see where others have stopped.

If you want an extra mooring rope, I’d just ask the boatyard personally.  If there's a full complement on board, then it may not be necessary, but if there are too few, they should provide sufficient to secure the boat.

As for length, our ropes are between 8 and 10 metres long.

[BrundallNavy]

Most of the broad is a good depth and you can mud weight almost anywhere except the point that leads to Gays Staithe the area around the island and the area at the top near the Barton boardwalk. 

[LizG]

Check the wind direction and go for a sheltered area, also check the future forecast in case the wind direction might change or increase in the night. I like the NW corner but there are often moored yachts to avoid

[NeilB]

Barton Broad is my local mud weighting spot.  You are safe pretty much everywhere outside the posts, just chuck the weight over the bows and let all the rope out, don’t worry about the tides as the rise and fall is minimal.  
check which way the wind is blowing so you can find a sheltered spot. 

I would not anchor anywhere inside the channel as you do get the odd night time traveller, hire boats won’t have an anchor light so a cabin light could be left on.  Best to stop outside the channel though.

How much wind the boat can cope with varies due to windage, the weight of the mud weight and what the bottom is like.  Barton is mud and personally I’ll anchor in anything up to 15mph winds.

You may find the weight hard to shift in the morning, if you don’t have a winch then reverse the boat gently until it starts moving, it should pull up ok then.  Be careful as it will be caked in gooey mud!!

As for mooring lines, yes most hire boats are too short for effective springs but everyone seems to cope ok, even down south.  If they look especially short then you could ask for a couple of longer ones.

[Broads01]

Yes your mudweight will tend to get absolutely covered wherever you use it but just suspend it just below the waterline for a few minutes of boat movement and you'll wash it clean.

Hiring very frequently I've rarely had a problem with bad mooring lines. I suggest checking them before you leave the boatyard and just ask for a change of rope if needed.

[grendel]

generally, the mooring lines are not long enough for the front lines to reach the prop if they fall in the water, I think that is the basis for most of the short ropes. 

[William92]

5 minutes ago, grendel said:

generally, the mooring lines are not long enough for the front lines to reach the prop if they fall in the water, I think that is the basis for most of the short ropes. 

Yeah, the compromise of shorter lines is probably less of a risk than that posed by the longer ones, that makes a lot of sense!

 

For mudweighting, yeah I'll definitely pick the sheltered side of the broad. I've crossed that broad in the wind before and I don't fancy being rocked to sleep by the waves that can build up across it 😁

[Gracie]

Well our members have covered everything as usual. I would just like to add, if you get a calm, clear night Barton is one of the best places to mud weight in those conditions. It is absolutely magical, all you can hear are the wildlife and the water. Sit outside on a clear night, look up at the stars and just enjoy every single moment.

I sat outside until 2 in the morning with a couple of glasses of wine, I will never forget how peaceful I felt

I hope you get a night like that

Grace x

[Wussername]

During my time on a boat yard, a few years ago, little time was spent on informing the hirer on that basic requirement, how to secure a boat on a mooring. Albeit by a rond anchor, a post, or a ring. The so called spring was an unknown. The mud weight outside of a broad was considered a feel good factor to be employed at every opportunity to be used at each and every opportunity. 

That well known  saying, quoted many times, "if you don't know knots tie lots".

[William92]

25 minutes ago, Wussername said:

That well known  saying, quoted many times, "if you don't know knots tie lots".

Yeah, I'd love to bring my cats on the broads but there's so many scratching posts at the moorings we'd never get to cruise anywhere 😂

And I think the last trip I asked for a quick demo of a knot at the boatyard and got a "you'll be fine, can't go wrong really" which is true enough, but it's satisfying showing up at a mooring and looking like you know what you're doing (with or without the funny hat some people buy for their week 😆)

[MauriceMynah]

If they're wearing pirate's headgear or any hat with anything written on it,  it's odds on favourite they are boating novices. (RN excepted) 

That's been my rule of thumb.

[Vaughan]

8 hours ago, grendel said:

generally, the mooring lines are not long enough for the front lines to reach the prop if they fall in the water, I think that is the basis for most of the short ropes.

I was going to mention this earlier.  In fact it is a fallacy.  On the French canals, all our ropes are at least 15 metres long, for use in some of the very deep locks.  I am sure we don't get any more ropes around props that we would on the Broads.  Parasols, yes.  Try getting one of them off a prop, with all that wire framework!

Broads mooring ropes are usually far too short for the job, I fear.

Just to clarify, finding a sheltered spot means finding a "lee".  So moor on the side of the broad that the wind is coming from and then you will be in the "lee" of the trees.

[Vaughan]

 

A good lee, on Barton Broad.

[grendel]

that was the explanation I was given by Marthams when I hired from them. on water rail I have 2 14m ropes that I use as springs when needed

[RumPunch]

I draw 1m and unless I go near the island, can pretty much sail the whole Broad. I'd be wary of mooring in the centre above the island, as that is still in the navigation area and may cause comment.

Please remember to leave enough free space to swing a full circle off the mudweight so if the wind changes you dont hit anything / anyone ( me ?! )

[NotDeadYet]

17 hours ago, William92 said:

would hire yards have an issue with either bringing our own lines

We always take our bag of lighter lines and almost always find a use for them. In general, we feel it's our responsibility to be sure, to be sure. Never had a yard complain! All the best.

[grendel]

if you are going to do a lot of mudweighting you can request a second mudweight to deploy from the stern, the advantage is you dont swing, the disadvantage is that you can end up side on to the wind, which in some locations may cause you to drag anchor despite having 2 down.

[marshman]

Having two mud weights, unless you are fishing, seems to totally miss the point and almost guarantees you will drag in a decent breeze - dont understand why you would want to be anything other than head to wind as this will be the lowest profile to the wind, if any, 

The most sensible comment comes from Vaughan - watch where the wind is coming from and just point the bows into the wind and keep going until you find shelter. You can go right up to the edge on the main Broad but if you are going down the main channel towards Gayes staithe it can be weedy towards the end if you go much outside the channel. I tend to hull the mud weight straight into the reeds if possible, and even if the wind changes 180degrees you are only going to be nestled into the reeds and come to no harm.

As you say, on balance keep out of the area to the south of the southern row of posts - inside that area there are fish barriers and shallows, as well as a hard bottom in places useless for mud weighting.

In all the years I have mud weighted, and I did it countless times, I think I dragged twice - once in Ranworth when a larger boat dragged onto me and then broke out my weight and then in Black Horse Broad when the wind got up to F 6/7 and I didnt want to go into the trees it was taking me!!!

[marshman]

P.S . There is little or no shelter behind the centre island, as that has very little growth behind which to shelter!! just go around the edges - you will find shelter somewhere!

[Vaughan]

2 hours ago, marshman said:

dont understand why you would want to be anything other than head to wind

Of course you need two mud weights - so that the boat stays in the same direction and you don't lose the picture on the TV.

[Gracie]

I can understand you guys who are regularly out on your boats watching tv and I am so not knocking you for it but for me anyway being out on a boat just for a week or two, I try to enjoy every second of being afloat. I don't think you can beat being wild moored or mud weighted and weather permitting being sat outside enjoying every second. Mind you, if the Boss Ad man is on tv, Barton Broad will just have to wait 

Have a great week

Grace x

[Bikertov]

12 hours ago, Vaughan said:

Of course you need two mud weights - so that the boat stays in the same direction and you don't lose the picture on the TV.

Don't be silly Vaughan ...

Whilst you are of course right about the need for two mudweights, we all know your reasoning is clearly incorrect 

The purpose of taking two mudweights on board is so that you still have one available to use once the first is deftly deployed overboard before you remembered to attach the other end of the line to the boat