First Wallop Of The Season

[littlesprite]

Having been walloped on more than one occasion myself, I do sympathise with anyone who falls victim, however, the yards can't always be blamed. Some people will pass a driving test on the first attempt, others will need many attempts, some people will be calm in a emergency, others will panic, Some people will drive in a sensible steady manner, others will be idiots.

Yes! the yards can always do more but so can the helm.

[Speleologist]

There is an element to a good handover that has so far not surfaced in this debate. A few years ago I was returning from Barton Regtta (incidentally with a broken mast). At Ludham bridge we encountered a mother and daughter, first timne hirers who had , due to lack of instruction, no idea of how to steer the boat. When it didn't react as quickly as a car they were panickiing. Stress levels were high and I have no doubt this holiday was heading for disaster, both in terms of risk to boats and the high likelihood that they would have ended up having a miserable holiday. Loan of our galley boy for 20 minutes instruction and they went on their way competently and in control. I'm sure they ended up having a great time. The key message in this: Good handovers are good for business. Customers who are equipped with the right skills are more likely to enjoy their holiday and more likely to become repeat customers.

[Poppy]

10 hours ago, Wussername said:

If of course all the hirers arrive at the same time. In practice they do not.

Andrew

Then in practice, give them an appointment for an arrival time. If they miss it, they hang about longer!

[JanetAnne]

How about allowing those that have something like a RYA boat handling certificate (available countrywide so no need to obtain in Norfolk) a shorter handover which would free up more time for novices?

Doesn't need to be RYA, maybe a Broads scheme. Perhaps after five hires you get a competence certificate. It would be in the yards interest to stamp the hirers card as they would save man hours in the long run and reduce damage and be in the hirers interest as they would not be losing that first day waiting hours for their turn.

 

[NorfolkNog]

25 minutes ago, JanetAnne said:

Perhaps after five hires you get a competence certificate. It would be in the yards interest to stamp the hirers card as they would save man hours in the long run and reduce damage and be in the hirers interest as they would not be losing that first day waiting hours for their turn.

 

Interesting idea JA.

[Viking23]

33 minutes ago, JanetAnne said:

... Perhaps after five hires you get a competence certificate. It would be in the yards interest to stamp the hirers card as they would save man hours in the long run and reduce damage and be in the hirers interest as they would not be losing that first day waiting hours for their turn.

 

That got me thinking about Tim West, he has had his own boat for decades, but as soon as he hires one, it becomes a contact sport.

Re some hirers, and also some private helmsmen, no amount of training would help them.

What is the answer?

Possibly bring back the refundable damage deposit, doesn't help the yards, but if you have £250 or £500 at risk, then just maybe you would take a bit more care with a boat costing upwards of £40k. A bit more time to ask questions, rather than answer the boat tech with yeah yeah yeah... can we go now.

This has been thrashed to death on the forum, but I don't think boat damage was that great in the 80's  However, on the woodies, I have seen white painted ply patches hammered into place on turnaround day, and some looked like patchwork quilts lol. 

[Gracie]

I have been on hire boats from the age of five, sitting on my dads lap and 'driving the boat', I have been taught how to handle a boat, what to do if a man overboard and in emergencies. When we hire a boat now, we don't do a trial run, just the bits n pieces we need to know about the particular boat we have hired. Weare respectful of rivers and other river users always. There are thousands of us that do the same. In all walks of life you will get a type of person who doesn't give a damn about anyone but themselves and what they want, to hell with anyone else, boating is no exception. No matter how much training, trial runs, tuition, whatever you want to call it, this type of person will go ahead regardless, the hire yards cannot pick and choose but hopefully deal with such culprits that hit other boats and have a complete disregard for the rivers, accordingly.

I have seen appalling behaviour from hirers and boat owners over the years, also some excellent boat handling and people who are kind and helpful in both camps.

I really do sympathise when you read of a boat getting hit, it is someone's pride and joy at the end of the day, an expensive one too. It is the Broads though, a beginners playground, these things are going to happen.

A happy and safe boating season to all of us

Grace

 

[Poppy]

But she still shuts her eyes when she sees a saily  

[Bound2Please]

2 minutes ago, Gracie said:

I have seen appalling behaviour from hirers and boat owners over the years, also some excellent boat handling and people who are kind and helpful in both camps.

I really do sympathise when you read of a boat getting hit, it is someone's pride and joy at the end of the day, an expensive one too. It is the Broads though, a beginners playground, these things are going to happen.

A happy and safe boating season to all of us

Grace

 

Grace its not just hirers when my kids were little our hire boat ended up with a bowsprite of a private sailing boat through the window.... I wonder why its always bash the hirers as its not just hirers... After all 99% of owners were hirers once even this old fart.....

[Poppy]

3 minutes ago, Bound2Please said:

Grace its not just hirers when my kids were little our hire boat ended up with a bowsprite of a private sailing boat through the window.... I wonder why its always bash the hirers as its not just hirers... After all 99% of owners were hirers once even this old fart.....

The circumstances  ?

[Gracie]

Pop's, I do not shut my eyes when you sailie types come along, otherwise I wouldn't see where I'm going as I run to the cabin cowering like an idiot, now would I? why on earth can't you lot drive in a straight line like the rest of us, with the exception of some of us on the Ant on a Friday and Saturday afternoon 

Grace

 

[Bound2Please]

Just now, Poppy said:

The circumstances  ?

We was moored at Reedham and said wooden saily thing was tacking, leaving it till the last minute to come about.... but miss timed his turn... All that was said was if you wernt moored here it wouldnt have happened and sailed off... The boat yard from outlon broad were great came out and fixed window in a couple of hours... No mooring wardens there in those days... 

[deebee29]

Well said Grace

[Poppy]

39 minutes ago, Bound2Please said:

We was moored at Reedham and said wooden saily thing was tacking, leaving it till the last minute to come about.... but miss timed his turn... All that was said was if you wernt moored here it wouldnt have happened and sailed off... The boat yard from outlon broad were great came out and fixed window in a couple of hours... No mooring wardens there in those days... 

No excuse for that then.

[Bound2Please]

Couldnt have put it better Grace.....................

[JennyMorgan]

54 minutes ago, Bound2Please said:

We was moored at Reedham and said wooden saily thing was tacking, leaving it till the last minute to come about.... but miss timed his turn... All that was said was if you wernt moored here it wouldnt have happened and sailed off... The boat yard from outlon broad were great came out and fixed window in a couple of hours... No mooring wardens there in those days... 

There are places on the Broads where mooring there can be a pain in the butt for sailing folk. There is a 24hr mooring in Oulton Dyke that really shouldn't have been there, whoever decided that was the best place for it clearly had absolutely no appreciation or understanding of tides, winds and trees.

[TrevorAndDeirdre]

We were moored at Salhouse last year for the night. A yacht moored next to us no problem there they can in nice and slow all was fine. It was next day when they left. Nice breeze coming across the broad onto the port side where the yacht was. They decided to go out under full sail, first hit by boom on roof the as they moved forward they were blown onto us all their line now tangled with our flat staff on front and they came to a full stop.  They did say sorry but once untangled moved off again.  Made contact with yard where it was from no reply for them. Took off the metal flag staff as now it was at right angles to the bracket. I brought it home to take to my local garage who repaired it for a tenner. The question why go out under full sail with boats moored each side and so fast.  

[BroadScot]

You are all forgeting one thing, the hirers pay a kings ransom in high season, the last thing they will wish to do is hang about waiting for detailed instruction, that the yards just do not have the time to do!

This thread is turning into a hire against private owner. Nothing has changed over tHe decades except there are more larger craft possibly than in times past. Many have bow and stern thrusters so mooring should be easier, but is it?

I had a boat with all the toys last year, a crew that have been used to my helming for years, but, in the winds it is still not easy to moor the bathtubs, so bumps will continue to happen, know matter how much instruction the hirer will receive...IMHO.

Iain

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, BroadScot said:

You are all forgetting one thing, the hirers pay a kings ransom in high season, the last thing they will wish to do is hang about waiting for detailed instruction, that the yards just do not have the time to do!

This thread is turning into a hire against private owner..........................................

 

The "Hirer against Private Owner" argument is indeed a most unwelcome topic on a forum, it often leads to personal insults and breaches of the TOS.

Iain, your assertion of Hirers "paying a King's ransom" as an excuse if they cause damage through negligence and/or inexperience is quite wrong though, IMHO.

A Private Owner pays an even higher "Kings Ransom" to purchase and maintain their boat, and it certainly shouldn't automatically absolve them of any damage they cause either.

The bottom line with either, is whether they're culpable or not.

A small percentage of Hirers and Private owners cause damage to other boats, and the root cause is the mentality of whoever is at the helm, not whether they own the boat or not.

[webntweb]

Moored stern on at the New Inn, Horning a couple of years ago on the first mooring downstream of the dinghy dyke. Stood at the interior helm with my head and shoulders above roof level, watching the crews of half a dozen yachts next to us getting ready to depart. The two boats next to us untied and started to raise their sails while still at the mooring. The sail on the one next to us was part way up when the big lump of wood at the bottom of the sail (boom?) swung toward me; I ducked and it continued across the top of our boat. It was a good job I was watching them otherwise I would have had a tremendous headache (at least!). Utter panic by the yacht's crew as they pushed off us (much bumping). No time for an apology I suppose, they didn't even look back.

Roy

 

[Gracie]

Apologies if anything in my post came across as hirers v owners, it certainly was not my intention, I absolutely hate that type of thing. I was just trying in my bumbling way to point out that you won't change the attitudes of some, whether they hire or own. As far as I'm concerned we are all equal and all share a passion for the Broads and Boats and shouldn't let the odd nasty type of person ruin it for the rest of us

Peskies, please delete if you think inappropriate

Grace

[BroadScot]

Strowie, there are now I believe well over 12,000 private craft on the Broads,so the chances of being bumped by the remaining 750 or so hire craft will IMHO, increase the ratio of possible accidents. 

There will always be the "skipper" I use that word very loosly who could receive two hours instruction, and still cause mayhem once out on the rivers. All many can think of is.....where can I stop, yes stop, not moor up to get to a pub!

I have heard and seen it with my own eyes, its not right, that goes without saying, but, the Norfolk Broads is a HOLIDAY area and you just gave to grit the old gums and hope it never happens to you. 

If it does, then numbers exchanged and boatyards informed should be rule of thumb.

Iain

 

 

 

 

[Viking23]

Why can't the sailies leave a mooring under jib only, assuming the wind is right, unless single handed, hoist the mainsail in mid stream, it's what we did in confined spaces, if you let go the jib, you reduce the forward propulsion, doesn't stop it though...

[Broadsword]

An interesting discussion... Just a few observations...

Remember, many of the sailies you see and have issues with are also hirers and may be similarly inexperienced to some of the cruiser hirers mentioned... The same concerns apply - what tuition is given before they take over the boat? In my experience it varies hugely from none at all to 'some' - rarely a lot, with a few notable exceptions.

Vikings23's comment above is full of subjectivity... Why can't sailies leave under jib only?  All sorts of reasons, but it would take a sailing course to explain them all. Basically though, they should not do so in such a way as to endanger others, or cause damage. Having said that , I am sure I have been guilty in the past, especially when a lot less experienced and unaware of how the boat will respond. To raise the sail midstream, having already  got under way would require the boat to turn back into the wind and, in some of the locations you have in mind, that would be complicated! If you can't sail off a mooring properly then it may not be the best place to do so... I would move (quant, row, whatever) to a safer position.

I don't think a proper handover should be impossible or too time consuming - and involving children ought to be an enjoyable and fun experience - it depends on the abilities of the staff I guess. Some group training, with video etc. and a bit of help over mooring, getting on and off safely, life jackets etc. etc. would pay dividends...

 

 

[Broadsword]

Having read them again, the one or two examples given above of sailing boats leaving a busy mooring badly, strongly suggest inexperience to me...

Believe me, when I want to sail off a mooring, I try to get well away from any other boats!  Usually though, we are very circumspect and, if in a busy location with the wind direction etc. unfavourable, we would motor into open space, head into the wind and hoist the sails that way. However, unpowered craft will find that more difficult. Then, the options are to move to a safer location on the mooring or away from it...

For example if moored at St Benets with the wind blowing onto the mooring, quant to the far side of the river and nose into the reeds... or on Malthouse, mudweight in open water and raise sail there... Trouble is, to the inexperienced hirer, these options, which are actually safer and easier, don't look that way!