First Wallop Of The Season

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

On 25/03/2016 at 4:35 PM, Liberty said:

I miss the Southern Broads!!

Come back down then. You always be welcome.

[Liberty]

1 hour ago, SPEEDTRIPLE said:

Come back down then. You always be welcome.

[Bound2Please]

17 hours ago, Gracie said:

You should fit in well, Shrek, we have plenty of retired rogues on here, bit of a dodgy sense of humour though

A very warm welcome aboard the Forum

Grace

Hello and Shrek from me and thwe Wench (some call Her Inge)

Grace Darlin you know me to well lol  ,,

Charlie

[Oddfellow]

17 hours ago, Wussername said:

Hi Andy

I know that you are a busy chap, especially at this time of year, however are you able to explain the procedure which the BA adopt to ascertain the standard of trial runs. 

I am certain that with your high standards it presents no challenge to your company, but how do those who fail to reach this criteria fair ?

Andrew

Like I say, when you're given notice of when and were an inspection will take place, everything will go by the book with little or no need for any negative BA comment . It would in any situation in virtually any business unless you were absolutely incompetent or powerless to hide bad practice. 

[Timbo]

Customer Report on Handover Experience
Location: Northern Yard by a Little Bridge

Date: September 2012

Me: Excuse me, we are the only boat left, the rest of the boats and the staff seem to have left,we've been waiting for five hours so can you do the handover?
Boatyard Employee: Staff party last night, we all have headaches.
Me: And?
Boatyard Employee: Have you been before?
Me: Yes, but...
Boatyard Employee: Know what you doing then.
Me: But never had dual steering bef...
Boatyard Employee: Oh you'll work it out. Bye.

On the off chance I'd encountered a practical joker I stalked around the yard looking for another member of staff but all was closed. So...we set off.

Returned to the yard three days later to have a faulty water pump exchanged and mentioned lack of handover...

Boatyard Employee: You seem to be managing OK!

So off we went again.

 

 

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

6 hours ago, Timbo said:

Customer Report on Handover Experience
Location: Northern Yard by a Little Bridge

Date: September 2012

Me: Excuse me, we are the only boat left, the rest of the boats and the staff seem to have left,we've been waiting for five hours so can you do the handover?
Boatyard Employee: Staff party last night, we all have headaches.
Me: And?
Boatyard Employee: Have you been before?
Me: Yes, but...
Boatyard Employee: Know what you doing then.
Me: But never had dual steering bef...
Boatyard Employee: Oh you'll work it out. Bye.

On the off chance I'd encountered a practical joker I stalked around the yard looking for another member of staff but all was closed. So...we set off.

Returned to the yard three days later to have a faulty water pump exchanged and mentioned lack of handover...

Boatyard Employee: You seem to be managing OK!

So off we went again.

 

 

I know this is going to be a little contentious, but in my opinion, you SHOULD name and shame the yard in question. Imagine someone who`s never been before, and, with the best intentions in the world, casts off without ANY knowledge of boat handling, fiire safety equipment etc, and safety afloat?. It could lead to tragedy.  ANY yard involved in this sort of thing should have their operators licence revoked, as they are risking danger or tragedy, and, this sort of attitude gives all other yards a bad name, especially unfair to the likes of Freedom, Maffetts and others that are quite meticulous in their training programme. It seems to me, and this is only MY opinion, a lot of these incidents are mostly related to the big yards?, so, if the yard management state they don`t have enough time to implement a "set in stone" trial run, then maybe yards should be restricted in the number of boats they can operate SAFELY with their normal staffing levels?. I did say this was going to be a little contentious

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, SPEEDTRIPLE said:

I know this is going to be a little contentious, but in my opinion, you SHOULD name and shame the yard in question

Timbo's opening words,

"Customer Report on Handover Experience, Location: Northern Yard by a Little Bridge"

seem a very strong hint Neil....

...maybe I'm wrong though......

[Islander]

Bit late to name and shame if it was in 2012! Lot of water passed under that bridge by now.

I hope the 1st timers this weekend got some decent instruction.

Colin

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

1 hour ago, Strowager said:

Timbo's opening words,

"Customer Report on Handover Experience, Location: Northern Yard by a Little Bridge"

seem a very strong hint Neil....

...maybe I'm wrong though......

There`s 3 to start with Strow,  "A" little bridge, not naming which "little bridge". I don`t think it fair to name any of the other 2 in case it was`nt them. Come to think of it, there`s also another 2 that could meet that description?. 7 if you include Acle bridge, but describing that as a "little bridge" would in all honesty be trying to stretch the truth a bit too far.

 

[Timbo]

1 hour ago, SPEEDTRIPLE said:

I know this is going to be a little contentious

 

1 hour ago, Strowager said:

Timbo's opening words,

"Customer Report on Handover Experience, Location: Northern Yard by a Little Bridge"

seem a very strong hint Neil....

...maybe I'm wrong though......

Quite a strong hint I thought...perhaps I should have said 'that little bridge', but being contentious... I spent that holiday doing some serious thinking about how much money I had spent with the company over the years..allowing for inflation...time...fluctuations in the quality of boats I could afford to hire etc etc. A rough calculation was I spent on average £1K- £2K a year on boat hire. Average that by thirty years I'd been hiring with the same company...and I could have afforded to buy my own boat years ago. A spot of research and the costs of buying a boat and keeping a boat...Uncle Albert and I bought Royal Tudor right after that holiday. My main goal once we are back afloat again is to get as much experience and tuition as I can.

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, SPEEDTRIPLE said:

There`s 3 to start with Strow,  "A" little bridge, not naming which "little bridge". I don`t think it fair to name any of the other 2 in case it was`nt them. Come to think of it, there`s also another 2 that could meet that description?. 7 if you include Acle bridge, but describing that as a "little bridge" would in all honesty be trying to stretch the truth a bit too far.

Maybe the "little bridge" clue was too cryptic Neil.

"Little" being the operative word for being the most difficult to get under.

....and there's clear winner there,right next to just one big hire yard......

[Polly]

Why can't the hirers be given a shore briefing about basics, then move aboard for specifics on the boat hired.

Basics being coming to moorings, keeping out of trouble,  crew safety

Richardsons/BA and Hunters have videos that could be seen ahead of arrival. Maybe this should be pushed more? Arrival aboard a new boat is a really poor time for rookie learning.

[Timbo]

43 minutes ago, Polly said:

Why can't the hirers be given a shore briefing about basics, then move aboard for specifics on the boat hired.

Basics being coming to moorings, keeping out of trouble,  crew safety

Richardsons/BA and Hunters have videos that could be seen ahead of arrival. Maybe this should be pushed more? Arrival aboard a new boat is a really poor time for rookie learning.

Some shore based tuition is a good idea. From experience I've spent quite a considerable time hanging around in reception...waiting for this that and the other before the holiday can start...ample time for some of the basics to be put across to the hirer.

[Wussername]

41 minutes ago, Polly said:

Why can't the hirers be given a shore briefing about basics, then move aboard for specifics on the boat hired.

Basics being coming to moorings, keeping out of trouble,  crew safety

Richardsons/BA and Hunters have videos that could be seen ahead of arrival. Maybe this should be pushed more? Arrival aboard a new boat is a really poor time for rookie learning.

There is a duty of care Polly that is sadly lacking in the industry. Andy of Freedom boats stated that he devotes 45 minutes as a minimum for a trial run. Relate that to a turn round of say 30 boats. Say 100 boats at a weekend in peak season. The man hours between say 2 PM and 6 PM for example is impossible to achieve.

100 x 45 minutes = 4500 minutes. 75 man hours. Between the hours of 2pm and 6pm on change over day.

I am not very good at the sums bit. Open to criticism.

Andrew

[Polly]

You could do a 'basics' briefing for several crews at once with just one staff member delivering. Aboard then would be devoted to the actual boat's requirements and the trial run. A time gap between shore and boat, (give them coffee? / get loaded up etc) allows things to sink in a bit, so it doesn't matter if there is the inevitable hanging around then.

If your brain is in stress mode, you don't learn, fact.

I feel sorry for hirers and for the guys briefing them if it's all new and the hirers are stressed, because  inevitably it is 'in one ear, out the other' for many with the current system.

[Wussername]

7 minutes ago, Polly said:

You could do a 'basics' briefing for several crews at once with just one staff member delivering. Aboard then would be devoted to the actual boat's requirements and the trial run. A time gap between shore and boat, (give them coffee? / get loaded up etc) allows things to sink in a bit, so it doesn't matter if there is the inevitable hanging around then.

If your brain is in stress mode, you don't learn, fact.

I feel sorry for hirers and for the guys briefing them if it's all new and the hirers are stressed, because  inevitably it is 'in one ear, out the other' for many with the current system.

There is no standard between  the hire companies. Until that is achieved nothing will change.

The group induction Polly, difficult to achieve in my opinion.

Andrew

[Liberty]

When doing track day, or supercar driving etc, there is a group induction.  Could work as a base on which to build for each helm.

[Wussername]

7 minutes ago, Liberty said:

When doing track day, or supercar driving etc, there is a group induction.  Could work as a base on which to build for each helm.

If of course all the hirers arrive at the same time. In practice they do not.

Andrew

[Broadsword]

We met a first time hirer on a BIG Faircraft boat who was doing OK, 'cos he was that kind of guy, steady, sensible... He had bow thrusters buzzing away and handled the boat well enough, but his crew had no idea and, frankly, that was not entirely their fault - they had no idea what to expect... After all, when Dad parks the car, he doesn't ask Mum and the boys to do anything!  A proper intro - video would be good - for all of the adult/young adult crew it would have meant that when he arrived at the mooring, he would have had some meaningful help!  They got sorted eventually, but on arrival at the mooring, their forward mooring lines were all nicely tied to the pulpit!  When they did get them free, they had not a first clue about taking a turn around the post or tying the boat off... Surely some common sense advice would have prepared them for that?

[dnks34]

Many years ago we hired in Ireland.  

On arrival we were shown to our boat and encouraged to unpack our belongings onboard, as the guy who had shown us to the boat was about to leave he said please be back at reception at 1530 for your classroom tuition.  We were taught all about locks/boat handling/basic skills/navigation etc etc, 45 mins no less with 2 other groups of hirers and what I learned in that 45mins still serves me to this day. 

The Erne and the Broads are 2 very different waterways but formalised classroom tuition could and should still be delivered to all hirers here on the broads.  

People might be on their holidays but when life and property is put at risk by the inexperienced (insert stupid where appropriate) then 30 or 40 minutes of classroom tuition for all crews can only in my opinion improve every river users overall safety and experience. 

The yards could introduce some system or other to ensure people don't need to keep repeating it if regular hirers. 

 

[SwanR]

Ensuring that one of us knew how to tie the ropes and getting us to demonstrate this was something that we found the hire yards always checked the first two or three times we hired until we became repeat customers. As for trial runs, Swancraft were good at this and made sure that we did a side on and a stern on mooring with them out on the main river the first time we hired. Barnes Brinkcraft ran through the same procedure the following year. After those two holidays we were obviously more confident with the boat handling.

The problem is partly that everyone wants to get away as soon as they can and not feel as if they have completely lost the first day in just taking over the boat. And that's bound to be made harder when you have excitable children and possibly four-legged friends also running around. No easy answer to this one no matter how many times we debate it.

Slow and steady wins the day ... and the majority of hirers will be sensible people I am sure. It's always the few who get themselves into scrapes, and affect someone else's holiday or property at the same time, who will make the headlines.

[NorfolkNog]

40 minutes ago, Broadsword said:

 but his crew had no idea and, frankly, that was not entirely their fault - they had no idea what to expect... After all, when Dad parks the car, he doesn't ask Mum and the boys to do anything! 

Mrs Nog frequently comments on this very point. Its amazing how often a boat will attempt to moor up and everyone just sits in the boat either expecting the ropes to magically uncoil themselves or expecting the skipper to do everything!

[BroadScot]

Bring back the little book we use to get when we booked our holiday. It had lots n lots of good sound information on all aspects of boating!

Iain

[VetChugger]

Despite all the holidays I had on the Broads I never managed to save one of those little books. I've been watching all the auction sites to try and find one! No luck yet after a few years!!!

 

[Shreck]

Thanks for all the welcomes, albeit off topic. Will probably bump into you all sometime. (Even I think that is a terrible joke given the topic of this conversation)  

 

Best wishes.

 

Shreck.