What Boat Would You Choose?

[smellyloo]

Hi, I've been letting my mind ponder as to buying a boat for the Broads.

I know many of you have loads of experience with lots of boats so could you share your thoughts regarding the following requirements.

I would need to handle single handed.

I like outside space.

Must have dedicated sleeping quarters.

Oh yer .... a mobo.

The space/experience on-board is more important to me than being able to pass under all bridges.

Budget 10k - 30k.

So what should i consider and what should I avoid?

Single handed cruising is MOST important.

Your thoughts/recommendations would be most appreciated.

[MauriceMynah]

Well I'd certainly go for an aft cockpit for ease when solo handling, sadly you don't say the average and the maximum berths required but I'd be looking for an Elysian (but I'm bias) or an Ocean 30. The Elysian will do Potter bridge moist times and the Ocean will do Wroxham most times and I believe Potter occasionally.

The Elysian sleeps 3 very comfortably or 4 occasionally. Not sure of the comfortable level of berthing for the Ocean 30, but as you are looking for outside space you would want to avoid the model with the stern cabin.

The Ocean is beamier so seems far more spacious inside, but that extra beam is the reason Potter is less often do-able. The Elysian will be cheaper than the Ocean 30 so you could invest some of your budget on improvements.

"Single handed cruising" can mean one of two things, either ...

a. You are on your own, or

b. You are the only one aboard who can do anything needed for cruising, but others are there,

I am normally in the first of those two options, though when I have others aboard I tend to go my own sweet way and do it all solo anyway. WARNING... this is not always popular with the others on board !!!

If your 'pondering' is likely to grow into a full blooded boat search, well I hardly need tell you that your forum membership will be invaluable to you as there is so much knowledge here to be tapped (Oh very well.... and in the other place if you still go there. I know we have some ocean 30 owners here as well as several Elysian owners. If you want a closer look at an Elysian, (Mk II Bounty) I'd be happy to show you over mine.

Hope to be of service, MM.

[Vaughan]

4 hours ago, smellyloo said:

Single handed cruising is MOST important.

Single handed depends more on your own experience as a boat handler, than it does on the boat, so I wouldn't worry about that, when choosing one. I would say that pretty well any purpose built Broads type cruiser can be taken out single handed. 

Choosing a boat is entirely personal choice and there are many to choose from. I agree with MM about the Elysian 27 and also the centre cockpit version.

Have a look at Richardsons Website and you will see the Melody or San Remo. These are the "Sedan" type and offer spacious accommodation in all weathers, along with wide side decks, but they won't do all the bridges. 

A Broom Skipper such as Broadland Orion are very good boats, but may be out of your chosen price range. (I don't know much about prices). When thinking of a centre cockpit boat, make sure it has a canopy that you can get up and down on your own.

Or you could go for the good old "bathtub" - very easy to handle and lots of accommodation inside. There is a short version called Salerno or San Domingo in Richardsons fleet. Or there is the iconic 25ft Hampton Safari.

I suggest we do it the other way round - you tell us what sort of boat looks interesting to you, and we will tell you what we think of it!

[MauriceMynah]

SmellyLoo specified that he wanted space outside, which is why I went for aft cockpit, but apart from that, without further info, I can make no further sensible suggestion.... in fact where 'I'm' concerned ANY sensible suggestion is something of a miracle . :)

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

Well I'd certainly go for an aft cockpit for ease when solo handling, sadly you don't say the average and the maximum berths required but I'd be looking for an Elysian (but I'm bias) or an Ocean 30. The Elysian will do Potter bridge moist times and the Ocean will do Wroxham most times and I believe Potter occasionally.

The Elysian sleeps 3 very comfortably or 4 occasionally. Not sure of the comfortable level of berthing for the Ocean 30, but as you are looking for outside space you would want to avoid the model with the stern cabin.

The Ocean is beamier so seems far more spacious inside, but that extra beam is the reason Potter is less often do-able. The Elysian will be cheaper than the Ocean 30 so you could invest some of your budget on improvements.

"Single handed cruising" can mean one of two things, either ...

a. You are on your own, or

b. You are the only one aboard who can do anything needed for cruising, but others are there,

I am normally in the first of those two options, though when I have others aboard I tend to go my own sweet way and do it all solo anyway. WARNING... this is not always popular with the others on board !!!

If your 'pondering' is likely to grow into a full blooded boat search, well I hardly need tell you that your forum membership will be invaluable to you as there is so much knowledge here to be tapped (Oh very well.... and in the other place if you still go there. I know we have some ocean 30 owners here as well as several Elysian owners. If you want a closer look at an Elysian, (Mk II Bounty) I'd be happy to show you over mine.

Hope to be of service, MM.

Absolutely right Elysian 27s are a great boat single handed , how do I know I own one , down sized from a powles 33 , it largely depends on how many need accommodation at  any point In time but a Elysian 27 or similar is a pretty good place to start .

[ScrumpyCheddar]

I would go for a freeman 27... had good times on them when my aunt and uncle had one on The Great Ouse.. Lovely boat.. I spotted this one last year... If I was closer to the broads  I would buy one... so that be my choice..

[Broads01]

MM - how do you find handling the canopy and screens solo? I've hired solo a few times but I must admit when I had Crown Gem 3 (Bounty 27) I found raising and lowering the canopy OK but a bit of a faff, especially when I was caught by an unexpected shower. 

[finny]

I would rule out an Hampton unless you can get or find a MK3 ,we had ours a MK2 for five years and they are a very good all rounder in many ways but i found them to be a bit handful mooring up in the wind - if you are a crew of one you would be relying on having the roof back for a sharp exit which is fine on a nice day but not when its raining 

i recon for a crew of one you can get a lot of bang for your buck with a Freeman 23 many are still on original Gel coat which in itself is a testament to build quality at age . i dont think you can ever find the perfect buy in any used boat considering your budget i would be looking for a smart looking shell with a view to spend a few quid getting it to personal taste..........oh and i wouldnt even bother me if it had a petrol engine 

just my thoughts

Finny 

[ChrisB]

9If you are a single hander and are travelling to your boat. I say that because you just can't hop in the car and be home in 10 minutes like me. Then a Sheerline 740 is a good boat. This is a hard top but you can get a full open cockpit. It is 50 quid shy of 30 grand. Well built boats that will hold their money, built in the area. It looks a lovely safe boat for going forwards to anchor etc.

[ZimbiIV]

Mine, obviously 'cos it's the I bought!

A Seamaster 820.

paul

[ZimbiIV]

Ah, Sheer Magic,  was moored near us and seemed to be well cared for.

paul

[finny]

another thing to consider is getting around the topside if its a wee tight and wet conditions it wouldnt take much to fall overboard .........which reminds me - crew of one get a good ladder fitted 

 

finny

[Siddy]

Melody is a good boat I've done a few weeks solo when Kaz couldn't help and won't moor up. One thing is the back end is nice size but acts like a sail with wind from the rear (oops).

[MauriceMynah]

With practice putting up or taking down the screen and canopy can be done under way. I am practiced and do it often, but I do  agree, it is a faff. But still I go no further until I know smellyloo's requirements.

[JanetAnne]

Got to be aft cockpit just for sheer ease of single handed cruising. Most moorings are now stern on and aft cockpit puts you right where the ropes are etc.

My choice would also be the Elysian 27 or one of the derivatives based on that hull. Plenty of beam so superbly stable and enough keel to stop the wind making a laughing stock of you! BMC on a shaft... Spacious... Huge production run and fitted out by many different boatyards meaning an extensive range of layouts.

And, for your suggested budget, you would really have the choice of the cream of the fleet.

[Viking23]

As we get older or have issues, I would now choose one with a single level. Access via a forward well, access to a rear well. No canopy, but to keep the weather out and increase the living space fair enough, but I don't want to have to make the effort of putting a canopy up when it rains or overnight. Pain with our river cruiser, especially during the cooler evenings, as the canopy stiffens.

Sliding front canopy, or two halves even better, but many are quite draughty. Seperate large made up double with ensuite, bunks for the grand kids... etc

Bathtub type seems to tick the boxes, or a Safari 25 with front well would do.

Not going for the looks, more utility. 

Had we got 5 + years of boating left, then we would have upgraded.  Spring Horizon, or Golden Horizon, type, since we have hired these in the past would be quite suitable.  I think they had what is called a Triton hull.

Had we got 10 + years, then maybe something that would take us out to sea and let us visit the Thames from the other direction. 

 

Richard

[High6]

MM What is the freeboard on Elysian? When we hired Moon Quest Bounty?) a year or so ago we felt we needed crampons sometimes - no good for us ratchety-limbed wrinklies. When we move to Hickling in a couple of weeks I think we'll be looking for a single-level with 5' 2" air-draft. A few different ones about.

Doug

[LondonRascal]

It might not be the height of fashion and you've got a pesky canopy to worry about which can be a chore when you are alone and have to get out to moor or back in once you cast off and it is raining - and it is down to you to do the toggles and zip up the zips. That aside, for a good amount of space plus and extra storage area/cabin for a guest  then an Ocean 30 could be a good idea:

The above is on on the market for £19,995 from Waterside Marine Sales

 

Another option is a larger fly bridge model - wider side decks, loads more space and a nice double berth - this Aquafibre 37 is unusual has has twin 50HP engines (albeit older Perkins) but with care they will have many more years of gentle cruising life in them. Don't let that price tag over your budget put you off either, those twin engines will be putting many punters off I am sure (and maybe even you) making her harder to sell than a usual single engine set up and so the price can only fall.

The above is on the market for £32,950 from Norfolk Yacht Agency

 

Finally what about a 30ft centre cockpit? This lovely Broom Skipper is up just under your budget and the side access means single handed mooring is not going to be a pain. They are well proportioned with wheelhouse space, and you can have the forward cabin for sleeping and the rear cabin as seating with a table for dining and taking things easy if you do not want to use the Wheelhouse as a social space all the time. 

The above is on the market for £28,950 from Norfolk Yacht Agency

 

So that is my three choices from what is on offer at the moment.  I have found  that the market for smaller boats at a reasonable prices has been pretty small.  I suspect because people put theirs up for sale earlier in the season as since May to July is when sales tend to be more buoyant with long days and sunny weather.  The next good buying season is when people go home at the end of this season and take a hard look at finances and decide the boat has to sadly go, but had been nice 'for once last season'. They tend to not sell as we come into winter time, so by early March 2018 having sat with little interest a buyer keen with waiting money has the upper hand and can often get a good deal to 'take it off their hands'.

Take time, look long and far (transportation costs to the Broads as not as bad as you think and savings from outside the Broads Bubble so far as price can cover it, and try to let head lead heart.

[smellyloo]

Hi all

Many thanks for your input it really is very usefull to listen to the experience of others.

As I said at the beginning I'm really at the "thinking about it" stage at the moment.

I used to have a pegasus 700 sailboat which I regularly single handed without issue. I realise these are much easier to handle then a broads cruiser as they can turn on a sixpence.

I regulally cruise solo so it is very important that I can handle the boat alone. My experience todate suggests that the most important part of solo cruising is well thought out mooring lines of a good length.

I've drooled over a few boats on-line.

I quite like the brooms cabriolet type, and have seen a nice broom 30 with dual driving positions although it seemed very pricy for a 37 year old boat.

The alpha single level types seem tempting but I'm unsure if a sliding roof will give that outdoor feeling that I would require.

Anyway I'm enjoying my armchair browsing and when/if I decide to give it a go I shall look forward to the challenge of mastering the manouvers in a quiet/tranquil spot.

One question though, do you think a bow thruster would be a useful addition or is it just the case of getting to know your boat well?

Regarding size I'm thinking max 35foot ...... is this too ambitious for single handed cruising?

 

[MauriceMynah]

Taking your points but not in order

4 minutes ago, smellyloo said:

My experience todate suggests that the most important part of solo cruising is well thought out mooring lines of a good length.

Spot on, which leads us to...

5 minutes ago, smellyloo said:

do you think a bow thruster would be a useful addition or is it just the case of getting to know your boat well?

A bit of both. Solo handling into a stern on mooring with a tad of a cross wind (typical of the Ranworth staithe) you may well find a bow thruster handy. Casting off with an on-shore breeze will also be made easier with one. Nice to have, but maybe not essential.

 

9 minutes ago, smellyloo said:

The alpha single level types seem tempting but I'm unsure if a sliding roof will give that outdoor feeling that I would require.

I haven't helmed very many of those, what I did find was that the view astern was terrible. Rarely did I have sufficient knowledge of what was behind and stern on moorings were a case of "stop when you hit". Nope, not for me! Your "outdoor feeling" really wasn't there either. Without doubt that style of boat has it's advantages (when moored stern on, the view from the main saloon is what you've paid all that money to come and see, as well as the "all weather cruising" ) but for me, not as much fun to helm.

17 minutes ago, smellyloo said:

Regarding size I'm thinking max 35foot ...... is this too ambitious for single handed cruising?

Not at all, Contrary to everything you've heard, Length really does not matter. you will soon get used to it however big it is. My preference is up to 30' but that's just me.

[MauriceMynah]

I meant to add that it's the time it takes to get from Helm to ropes to shore that will dictate the ease of solo handling of a craft. I would aim for less than 5 seconds from helm to shore (with ropes in hand) 

[smellyloo]

27 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

I meant to add that it's the time it takes to get from Helm to ropes to shore that will dictate the ease of solo handling of a craft. I would aim for less than 5 seconds from helm to shore (with ropes in hand) 

Good point .... it starts to make rear cockpit an attractive option, this usually has the sort of outside space i'm used to as in my old peggy.

[stumpy]

I can only echo what MM and Ricardo have said. I effectively single hand our Bounty 27 as Kathy has osteoarthritis and once ensconced on the stern seat stays there. As MM said the canopy can be done single handed but I've never been bold enough to try it under way we usually drift about on Wroxham or Daisy broads before shooting Wroxham bridge. I have a caravan step in the cockpit to speed the leaping out bit as we only have one good leg between us - managed OK for the last few years. 

[Dave Beard]

I've been boating on the Norfolk Broads for thirty two years and I have had all types if boats from rowing, outboard dingy, speedboats Shetland, Cleopatra and two types of ex hire boats but for a single handed boat I would stick with a Freeman 22, 23, or 26 you can pick them up for low money even lower if your prepared to get your hands dirty lol

Sent from the Norfolk Broads Network mobile app

[LondonRascal]

9 hours ago, smellyloo said:

One question though, do you think a bow thruster would be a useful addition or is it just the case of getting to know your boat well?

I'd say if the boat you buy comes with them, use them if it does not the cost of them and additional requirements so far as battery capacity all add up to at least a couple of thousand pounds, but often more when you factor in fitting, labour and wiring etc.

They have their uses - because you can get away with things really but they are not the difference between handling a boat well or not or mooring easily or not - they are simple a handy aid.

You also mention about size and would 35ft be a maximum? I have hired and solo helmed 44ft x12ft the larger boats are way more stable and predictable and less twitchy in wind and current so what I think would be a great idea, is wait for the season to calm down - mid October take a short break from Richardson's could be for a weekend - maybe 4 nights (it will cost the same) on on of their cheaper boats. 

You've handled boats in the past so your not a virgin to it but doing this and coming a little outside your comfort zone on a boat you've not had to spend out many thousands of pounds and can return a few days later will give you great experience.  For me my first was San Julian - a duel steer fly bridge style 32ft from Richardson's back in 2012 I think - right in the thick of it alone first time and learning how to do things solo.  It gave me the confidence to then go on with larger boats, different styles and go further and tackle more challenging areas like mooring with an ebbing current at Reedham alone as the time passed on different boats.

It is not as scary as it might seem and a lot of the questions you really can't answer until you are doing it - and I know from my times afloat and videos it inspired others to give it a go themselves alone and like me gained a lot of pleasure and confidence. So no, 35ft should not be seen as a maximum it is what you are comfortable to cope with, how nimble you are, how strong to hold ropes so really it is more a personal thing than anything, for what suits me may not you.