Northern Vs Southern Broads

[Chelsea14Ian]

Breydon is the crossing from north to south.In all honesty I love all of the broads.Our boat is moored at Brundall. We have a great moorings. It is handy for us,living close to Dartford.The southern broads are less busy all year round,Great places to  visit.Always happy to go north when we can.Would not enjoy as sadly some do only staying north or south. Enjoy both.

Happy boating Ian 

[seanguest]

2 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

The hire boat business has been trying to level out the traffic on the Broads rivers ever since its inception. Worth remembering that John Loynes, one of the founder members of Blakes Association in 1908, had started his boat hire business on the Wensum in Norwich and he is widely reckoned to have been the first.

When I was a boy, all the men who worked on the yards considered themselves either north or south men and those who worked on the Yare didn't know much about the north rivers. There is even a noticeable difference in the Norfolk accent, between the two areas. I grew up as a south rivers man and it still shows. There are many places up north that I know little about.

In the 50's and 60's there were serious efforts to promote holidays on the south rivers and the Jenners development in Thorpe which began in 1965 was meant to rival Herbert Woods and bring customers to the south. If the company had not run out of cash flow so early, it might well have succeeded in this.

I am always surprised that companies do not offer one-way cruises between north and south. Barnes for instance, have facilities in Brundall, which is only half an hour by road from Wroxham. After 25 years in France I am well used to one way cruises and they are easily organised. Well over 50% of our customers choose that option.

What I have noticed most, after a 30 year absence, is that the north rivers are every bit as overcrowded now, if not more so, than they used to be in the 60s. Why should that be, I wonder, when there are now around 800 hire boats, instead of 3000 before? 

Lack of shore facilities and infrastructure, perhaps?

 

One way cruise...i like the sound of that.

[JohnK]

there are now around 800 hire boats, instead of 3000 before? 

I would never have guessed that!
Do we know how the number of private boats compares?
Does the 800 include day boats?


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[SwanR]

I count myself fortunate that we first hired on the south without having been onto online forums or websites and as such knew very little about what we were doing but equally hadn't read anything about stronger tides and wider rivers that might have put us off. We love the south but the lack of suitable hireboats at the right price has meant that we have stayed north on our last few visits. Yes we could plan the dates so that the tides would be right to make our first Breydon crossing ... but then I think that we would need longer than a week given all that I read about how much time you spend getting up and down to Great Yarmouth and how mundane that stretch of the Bure can be. That has kind of put us off wanting to do it.

But we definitely won't be hiring on the north in the middle of the season - June and September have both proved to be busier than we expected so March to May or October would be our preference. If we could hire on the south then we would still go in June - it just wasn't anywhere near as busy as the north the last time that we did it.

Being in a convoy of boats on the northern rivers during the summer just isn't enjoyable or relaxing for us!

[vanessan]

Yes, this is a subject that has been done to death but it will always encourage more discussion and new opinions. Our home mooring is in the north and we love it. Being able to cruise the northern rivers in March/April and October/November when it is quiet is magic (the boat has a well deserved rest between December and mid March!) but the rest of the year we journey south on each visit. Much quieter and, IMO, better moorings. There is a more ‘spread out’ feel to me in the south and I suppose it is more of a challenge with the stronger tides. Both north and south have a lot to offer and crossing Breydon is just part of the trip.

[Cockatoo]

The first time I crossed Breydon was under tow in an old broads cruiser that was slowly sinking. An acquaintance (a regular at my local, I lived in Norwich at the time, had bought. We had an electric pump in the bilge connected to his boat by a very long wire. It worked well until the breaker kept popping on his boat and the pump stopped halfway across. What did we learn from this? If you are going to do it again carry a spare pump 

This is probably why crossing Breydon in a well maintained boat has never fazed me too much. The first time I crossed on my own in a hire boat I don't remember it being a big deal. There wasn't any advice in the manual. I just headed for Yarmouth, moored overnight at the big moorings on the left near the Greyhound Stadium, not there any more I believe, and the old boy that collected the mooring fee told me the best time to leave there was 10am so off I went.

 Mind you, as a kid I used to drink from the garden hose, play out after dark and put pennies on the local train line so the train flattened them as it passed. All things that result in instant death nowadays it seems.

 

Steve

[Vaughan]

1 hour ago, JohnK said:

I would never have guessed that!
Do we know how the number of private boats compares?
Does the 800 include day boats?

That is a very good question, and proves that statistics are subject to interpretation!

I think the figure is nearer to 750 hire boats now, and I understand that that does not include day boats. The figure of 3000 in the 60s, may have included them though.

The number of private boats has increased (so they say) to around 3000 and a lot of this will be because ex hire boats were sold into private hands.

One thing I know as fact : In the 1964 Blakes catalogue are the flags of 43 member boatyards. Hoseasons had about the same number and so to include the Bradbeers agency would bring the total to around 100 boatyard businesses.

All of these were offering free moorings, water, toilets, showers, fuel, refuse disposal and later, pumpouts, to any boat which passed, from whatever agency, and whether private or hire.

THIS is what is missing now.

[Bound2Please]

10 minutes ago, SteveDuk said:

Mind you, as a kid I used to drink from the garden hose, play out after dark and put pennies on the local train line so the train flattened them as it passed. All things that result in instant death nowadays it seems.

Never a truer word spoken in jest ..........................................

Charlie

[JennyMorgan]

Vaughan speaks with much wisdom on this subject, may I suggest that you all read his musings and inwardly digest.

Re this crossing Breydon lark. As teenagers myself and a friend rowed a cut-down ex trawler's lifeboat from Oulton Broad to Oulton Broad via Gorleston in a day. Breydon is only a problem if you let it be. Use the tides to your advantage.

[Bluebell]

I too like both sides, we moored in Thorpe for several years, then Wroxham and now Potter Heigham. 

Vaugham said:

"What I have noticed most, after a 30 year absence, is that the north rivers are every bit as overcrowded now, if not more so, than they used to be in the 60s. Why should that be, I wonder, when there are now around 800 hire boats, instead of 3000 before? "

Is this because there are more private boats? or have a missed something?

[seanguest]

5 hours ago, JohnK said:

Only 800 hire boats on the broads down from 3000...thats a lot of lost revenue,so that's why they are skimping on the bins.

I would never have guessed that!
Do we know how the number of private boats compares?
Does the 800 include day boats?


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[ranworthbreeze]

I thought the number of Private boats was around 10,000

Regards 

Alan

[Guest]

I like the North out of season, I like the South all year round, hence we moor South. I think if I came into a 'lot of money' I would have a flybridge boat moored South and a waterside cottage with my Safari moored outside up North. (and a dayboat for above Potter, and a canoe, and a............well you get the idea!)

[JennyMorgan]

3 hours ago, Bluebell said:

I too like both sides, we moored in Thorpe for several years, then Wroxham and now Potter Heigham. 

Vaugham said:

"What I have noticed most, after a 30 year absence, is that the north rivers are every bit as overcrowded now, if not more so, than they used to be in the 60s. Why should that be, I wonder, when there are now around 800 hire boats, instead of 3000 before? "

Is this because there are more private boats? or have a missed something?

I think that that is quite true but add to that, as Vaughan has written, the system has lost scores of boatyards that used to have a reciprocal agreement to provide moorings and services for the then large hire-fleet.

[vanessan]

I think there are something in the region of 6500 private boats. That was roughly the figure the BA was quoting when the tolls review was carried out in 2015. 

[Broads01]

I like Vaughan's one way idea, what a fantastic USP that would be for a hire operator that took the risk. I didn't realise Barnes had facilties at Brundall and yet like the other big operators they seem firmly entrenched at their current location.

I recall one way trips were briefly available in the 80s between Herbert Woods and Hearts when they were under the same ownership. I also remember more recently operators who published their intentions to set up a second base south but ended up not doing so - Le Boat at Somerleyton and Ferry Marina at Waveney River Centre. A one way cruise from Horning to WRC would be great and you could even do it on a short break. Can you tell, I enjoy the journey south but coming back that long slog on the bottom end of the Bure seems to go on forever. 

[Matt]

Well after 6 years of having Thunder moored at Brooms in Brundall the owners recently voted to make the move North in Richardsons at Horning.

For me personally really looking forward to it but this is no reflection on the South- just ready for a change.


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[Jbx5]

Great choice of yard Matt plenty room and friendly service.

It will be very interesting though the cost of gel repairs next year compared to other years ?

We have moved south this year after 10 years north, I prefer the north slightly in winter but just too busy in the summer for a relaxing time. Have really enjoyed our south year and wins hands down the rest of the year. 

John

[vanessan]

‘Can you tell, I enjoy the journey south but coming back that long slog on the bottom end of the Bure seems to go on forever.‘

I used to find it rather like that too. Nowadays the time is used for showers, a bit of cleaning, cooking and generally anything that needs doing. It makes the time go quite quickly although if you solo helm there is no simple answer! We share the driving on those long stretches so it’s not so bad.

[ExUserGone]

The lower bure is ideal for showers, plenty of running time for the hot water, shifts on the helm, job done.

[Broads01]

2 hours ago, vanessan said:

‘Can you tell, I enjoy the journey south but coming back that long slog on the bottom end of the Bure seems to go on forever.‘

I used to find it rather like that too. Nowadays the time is used for showers, a bit of cleaning, cooking and generally anything that needs doing. It makes the time go quite quickly although if you solo helm there is no simple answer! We share the driving on those long stretches so it’s not so bad.

Good thinking. 

[ranworthbreeze]

4 hours ago, Matt said:

Well after 6 years of having Thunder moored at Brooms in Brundall the owners recently voted to make the move North in Richardsons at Horning.

For me personally really looking forward to it but this is no reflection on the South- just ready for a change.


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Hi Matt,

That yard now run by Richardson is a good option to be moored on the norther rivers, To get a good mooring is a case of waiting for dead mens shoes.

We used to be moored at Ferry Marine and welcomed the move to the southern rivers, far better facilities now. Wide and deep rivers with better meals available in the various pubs is our take on it.

Regards

Alan

 

[seanguest]

Hi Matt,
That yard now run by Richardson is a good option to be moored on the norther rivers, To get a good mooring is a case of waiting for dead mens shoes.
We used to be moored at Ferry Marine and welcomed the move to the southern rivers, far better facilities now. Wide and deep rivers with better meals available in the various pubs is our take on it.
Regards
Alan
 

My favourite pub is the woods end at bramerton.

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[ranworthbreeze]

The Waterers Edge (ex Woods End) is now an excellent restaurant  and bar and well worth a visit, we have never been disappointed with the meals here, my son a chef could not praise enough when they came to the boat a couple of years ago.

Regards

Alan

[Speleologist]

An interesting debate to which I will offer a slightly different slant. To my mind it is north for the Three Rivers Rave and the Down River Race (and possibly the Turkey Race). South for the Yare Navigation Race and the Cecil Howard Trophy Race. When cruising, unless I am only around for a weekend, a crossing of Breydon is a must, preferably without an engine. This is the ultimate Broads navigation challenge and something that I enjoy immensely. As to the characters of the north and south, the north can often be a greater testing of sailing skills (fluky winds, narrow rivers, heavy traffic) whilst the south requires seriou8s attention to working with the tides. (as does the lower Bure). Both offer different challenges to the engineless sailor and life without both would be incomplete.