Buying A Boat

[Jovril]

Whilst I am aware that the budget you have will dictate what you can purchase and have on the boat, I am keen to know what you all consider as

A)     Essentials

B)      Desirables

On any boat, that obviously apart from a hull that can float.

Did warn you about silly questions.

Look forward to your thoughts

John

[TheQ]

The first question is purpose...

What are you going to use it for?  rowing, sailing, sailing racing, day motorboating, week at a time motorboating, week at a time sailing.

You need to decide on the above before A or B.

[stumpy]

Hi and welcome Jovril. We had a pretty tight list - 25-30',3-5 berths, diesel inboard on a shaft, pumpout bog, aft cockpit(so able to single-hand) and easy(ish) foredeck access. Oh, and under 15k! This was formed from being around salt water boats and hiring for 40-odd years, also knowing our physical limitations. Took about 10 months of schlepping about from the Wash to the Thames before we found No Worries at Potter H'am. She had also been moored at Broadsedge which was my first choice of marina - done job!

 

 

[riyadhcrew]

Jovril,

there was something wrong with your last 2 posts, so I deleted them.

[Jovril]

Hi TheQ

In answer to your questions -

Few days/week at a time motorboating around the broads mainly for two of us with occasional couple of overnight guests

John

[Jovril]

Thanks for the deletion had a computer malfunction, or I hit the wrong keys

John

[JennyMorgan]

A very sensible question. especially as we enter the annual buying 'silly season'. Why I say silly is because it really does seem that caution goes out of the window where some folk are concerned in their desperation to become boat owners, and brokers reap rich dividends. Cynical, maybe, but I've been involved one way or another with boats for a very long time. 

For a kick off a large proportion of all the boats sold for cruising on the Broads are sold to absolute novices, or so I'm told by some exceedingly rich people in the brokerage industry. An unhealthy number of those boats really are unsuited to novices and arguably for the Broads, easy pickings for for the industry some might say. 

Anyway, that aside, as has sensibly been suggested, decide what sort of boating you wish to be involved with, obvious really.

Having done that start your search. Far too many boats on the Broads are effectively 'second homes', engines well underused and their insides redesigned and DIY rebuilt as open plan bungalows, best avoided. When built the hull and interior of a boat are generally designed to compliment each other. Walls, or bulkheads, hold the hull sides apart, often giving rigidity to the hull, tamper with that and problems such as engine misalignment rear their ugly head. Be wary. 

I've been in sales one way or another for most of my working life and the principle of success is to give the answer that the customer wants to hear. Telling a customer that the gleaming boat that he's ogling is really unsuited to his ability or intended use might well be the honest answer but it might not sell a very expensive boat! Once again, just be wary. 

Boats are like women, best avoid the high maintenance ones! 

[smellyloo]

Most first time buyers end up buying a second larger boat after a couple of years.

Imagine the space on board filled with luggage, bedding, food/drink, wet weather clothing (where can they hang to dry) ropes, pots, pans, books ..... well you get the picture.

That beautiful open plan interior you first fall in love with might look like a tip when you bring your weeks worth of clutter!!

So I think a seperate sleeping cabin would be high on my list of wants and maybe a second if you regularly intend to invite guests.

 

[johnb]

Apart from all the above sensible answers, with which I agree, finding an independent person you can trust to survey the boat. Make no assumptions regarding maintenance and upkeep because it was "owned or used by".

Decide where you will want to travel on the broads and where and what type of home mooring you would like. When we bought our first boat on the Broads we didn't take it to the mooring we had reserved and paid for at Porter and Haylett until we had spent a lot of money on it and had our holiday. We didn't realise how tight the fit under Wroxham Bridge would be at some times. Fortunately we always managed, and usually got through Potter Heigham bridge at low tides (also important to us) with the help of the pilots.

Best wishes for a successful buy and many happy years on the Broads.

[JennyMorgan]

56 minutes ago, stumpy said:

Hi and welcome Jovril. We had a pretty tight list - 25-30',3-5 berths, diesel inboard on a shaft, pumpout bog, aft cockpit(so able to single-hand) and easy(ish) foredeck access. Oh, and under 15k! This was formed from being around salt water boats and hiring for 40-odd years, also knowing our physical limitations. Took about 10 months of schlepping about from the Wash to the Thames before we found No Worries at Potter H'am. She had also been moored at Broadsedge which was my first choice of marina - done job!

 

 

Stumpy, how sensible! The 15k limit, even if folk can easily afford more is no bad suggestion. £200,000.00 might buy a great deal of bling but that might also buy a boat that gets little use for fear of scratching it, I kid you not. I had a good friend, now deceased, who had a Broome called Lerici, it rarely, very rarely left its mooring on Oulton Broad. Charles, it's owner, was one of the nicest, kindest of men, his boat his pride and joy. Whoever bought Lerici would have found her gel in almost new condition, Charles's boating joy was in washing and polishing rather than actively cruising.  In practical terms his boat was his second home, and why not, each to their own. Perhaps if he'd started off with an old boat, had a few inconsequential biffs and inevitable bashes, then maybe he would have gained the experience and used his boat for what it was actually designed for.

[smellyloo]

2 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Stumpy, how sensible! The 15k limit, even if folk can easily afford more is no bad suggestion. £200,000.00 might buy a great deal of bling but that might also buy a boat that gets little use for fear of scratching it, I kid you not. I had a good friend, now deceased, who had a Broome called Lerici, it rarely, very rarely left its mooring on Oulton Broad. Charles, it's owner, was one of the nicest, kindest of men, his boat his pride and joy. Whoever bought Lerici would have found her gel in almost new condition, Charles's boating joy was in washing and polishing rather than actively cruising.  In practical terms his boat was his second home, and why not, each to their own. Perhaps if he'd started off with an old boat, had a few inconsequential biffs and inevitable bashes, then maybe he would have gained the experience and used his boat for what it was actually designed for.

JM raises a very valid consideration.

Your boat will most certainly come into contact with other vessels .... the Broads in summer can be very busy with novice crews.

So if you want to get out there and enjoy you need a boat that you can relax in .... not worry about the odd knock.

[ZimbiIV]

Jovril,

You can have as many lists, must haves, must not haves as you like, but nothing beats going out there fender kicking!

We had all things in mind when looking then went back and bought the first boat we had seriously looked at.

We had it 4 years before it shrunk too much for us.

Remember it is really like looking for a car you have to be prepared to walk away if the deal does not suit you, there are plenty of boats out there.

paul

 

[vanessan]

We decided to buy after 30+ years of hiring and when we retired. Because of our ages, and having two dogs, we decided on a bathtub style. We only searched for one weekend and found a suitable 35’ boat which we purchased having had a good survey on it. We had looked at 30’ boats with one sleeping cabin but realised that the use we planned really needed more room for storage (we use the boat for 2/3/4 weeks at a time). I am glad we did make that decision as the ‘spare’ cabin is nothing more than a store room and something we could not do without now. From time to time it is used for guests but only at the expense of storage. We have had the boat for almost 9 years and never tire of being on the water. 

From stories I have heard and read, boat purchasing can be a mine field and you are so right to ask as many questions as you can think of. I think we were very lucky to stumble on a boat that has proved so right for us. We have spent a lot on it for various reasons, you need deep pockets to be a boat owner! I heartily agree with the suggestion of getting a survey done, the chance of a nasty surprise is greatly reduced if you do. Good luck with the search.

 

[CambridgeCabby]

When Kate and I were searching , we decided that Ludham bridge was a must have , and to many this also applies to Wroxham bridge so set what aircraft you are happy with to allow passage under said bridges (very few will pass Potter ) .

our initial budget was £15000 we ended up spending nigh on £30000 but we did find exactly what we were seeking , so do allow for “wiggle room” on your top end.

we also wanted an aft cockpit ,diesel inboard engine , heating and original gel coat ; we ended up with an Ocean30 and couldn’t be happier , yes we had to compromise on some minor things and we have also spent a fair bit on top of our initial purchase but dreams don’t come cheap .

i also know others who have spent £12000 and they too have never regretted their investment .

 

a final note , Kate and I spent over 18months in our search and rejected dozens before we found our dream , not just searching on the Broads but also on other waterways also.

[BuffaloBill]

There have been many good replies to this thread but I would

like to add one more.

Although I have been coming to the Broads since 1963, always

as a hirer, we decided that it was time to buy our own, what

with early retirement coming up. A complete stranger to us invited

us on board their boat and showed us round and then we sat

down for a cuppa and a good natter. They asked us what we

wanted the boat for? after a few moments silence, they explained

that what that meant was how often will you use it and for how long

at a time. What do you want to leave on it permanently and how much

stuff in clothing, bedding and food will you bring down each time.

This dictates how much storage room must be available before you

start on anything else. If you are having guests remember that they will

require storage room too. Are you reasonably fit to get on-and-off even

with very high tides. This will in some ways depict which style of boat you need.

Buying is usually the easy part, paying for Insurance, BSS, Tolls and mooring

fees go up with the length of the craft. And all this before you use it.

Spend some time with your eyes closed imagining 'living' on the boat on a

day-to-day basis once you have seen a boat you like. Don't be talked into

making a hasty decision by a broker who may say that they have someone else

looking at it. Above all, make sure you have a full survey! On our first choice, he

told us to walk away as it had been sunk twice and the boat must weigh about

3/4 ton more than it should because the Osmosis was that bad. He saved us a fortune.

When you find something that looks good to you, ask for opinions on here as someone

may already own one like it and give you some very helpful insights on it.

Good luck with the search and don't be in a hurry. It took us 2 yrs to find our first one.

We are now on our fourth! 

 

[JennyMorgan]

Much mention has been made of storage but consider for a moment what you are actually doing, you are going boating. Now, when it comes to hoarding then I'm as bad as the very worst onboard the forum. Every few years I open and empty every locker, put it all on the bank beside my boat and then wonder why on earth I have kept half of it because quite simply I have never used it nor am I ever likely to. Remember, you are going boating, as I wrote before. It makes sense to tailor what you store to what space you have rather than buying a bigger, thus more expensive boat just to store what you probably don't need! Not for everybody but boating becomes or is a lifestyle and fitting stuff into confined spaces becomes an art form. Everything that goes aboard should ideally have at least two uses thus saving on duplication. Now, hairdryers for example, do you really need one? No, so leave it at home! Another consideration are the 'water rats', those who consider stealing from boats is acceptable. The more that is stored aboard then the more tempting a boat becomes, just a consideration. Although I sometimes go off on a cabin cruiser I mainly camp afloat, now that does introduce a degree of discipline into what I take afloat! 

[vanessan]

I am sure JM is not trying to pooh pooh the idea of storage on a boat (I can’t find the evil grin smiley to insert here) but I would just point out that he lives in the area! When you travel almost 4 hours to get to your boat which you will be spending a few weeks on, you do need spare clothes, bedding, towels etc otherwise people begin to avoid you! This really does confirm the need to try and work out how you will be using the boat. 

[Hockham Admiral]

Is this what you wanted, Vanessa?       

It's under NBN Classic Emoticons. Click on Categories first.     

 

[Ray]

Be open minded.. our first boat was every thing we were looking for and was such a mistake we sold it a month later.

Our current boat is the one type I had decided I wasn't interested in.. it is perfect for us and I love every minute aboard her.

Good luck and have fun!

[vanessan]

14 minutes ago, Hockham Admiral said:

Is this what you wanted, Vanessa?       

It's under NBN Classic Emoticons. Click on Categories first.     

 

No, not that one. It’s an animated one,  I’m sure I’ve seen it and used it before! Still, that one will do in the meantime thank you John.  Suddenly found it!!!! 

[JennyMorgan]

2 hours ago, vanessan said:

I am sure JM is not trying to pooh pooh the idea of storage on a boat (I can’t find the evil grin smiley to insert here) but I would just point out that he lives in the area! When you travel almost 4 hours to get to your boat which you will be spending a few weeks on, you do need spare clothes, bedding, towels etc otherwise people begin to avoid you! This really does confirm the need to try and work out how you will be using the boat. 

 

Certainly not poo-pooing the idea of storage, far from it. What I was seriously suggesting is that people put some thought as to what they have and keep aboard. Yes, I do live here but I have been known to travel elsewhere! My cloths tend to be of the type that can easily be washed and when hung up will be try in no time. I don't normally take anything that doesn't fit in a stash bag or that can't be carried, especially when flying. 

Being realistic my wife and I live in a fairly spacious home, and now, to be honest, too spacious for us two old biddies.  If we were to downsize, which would be sensible but maybe not likely, then we would have no option but to de-clutter. I'm sure that all of us are the same, if we have space then we fill it. 

Storage is good, but if we are careful in choosing what we need to store then perhaps we'd need a smaller boat! Easier & cheaper to moor for one thing. 

[MauriceMynah]

On ‎04‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 16:58, JennyMorgan said:

What I was seriously suggesting is that people put some thought as to what they have and keep aboard.

1. When you next go to Tescos, take a tape-measure and see how tall litre bottles of rum are, oh and of course scotch. Make sure you have shelves that can accommodate them.

2. Measure the height of pint glasses and the diameter of scotch tumblers and ensure that those can be accommodated too

3. Allow space for a wine rack, always useful. and remember that square gin bottles are easier and more space saving than round ones.

4. Beer takes up a surprising amount of space. make sure that there is a cupboard with sufficient space for several days supply.

5. Space for clothes... if you must!

[JennyMorgan]

Re cloths, I met a gentleman at the weekend who wears his shirts inside out during the day when they are most likely to get dirty and wears them right sides, clean side,  outwards when he goes to the pub. Reckons that at most he needs two shirts onboard, with one of them being on him.

[Jovril]

Many thanks Maurice Mynah

Probably one of the most useful pieces of advise so far - Hic

John

[SteveO]

My considerations would include:

Spacious and comfortable beds.  At the age of 64, I no longer get excited by the thought of climbing over Mrs O in the night,

Comfortable seating and being able to admire the view when seated - can't always take this for granted in modern sports boats. There wasn't a comfortable place to sit in our last boat - so we sold it after a couple of seasons.

Adequate storage for food and drink - been done to death already

Shore Power - a personal preference, but being able to run a heater makes early/late season cruising more comfortable

Heating, including water heating - so you don't have to run the engine when moored - antisocial.

Somewhere to put your telly - that's just me.

Easy to handle 

A decent steering position that allows you to see over the tops of the reeds - got bored of reed stems 20 years ago

Access under bridges - Ludham and Wroxham at least

Ease of access to the boat from your intended mooring Aft cockpit boats tend to be easier if moored side on unless there is a bathing platform - and they can bring their own problems.

Plenty of battery capacity and a good charging system. Might as well be comfortable

Affordability - Larger boats are more expensive to toll , moor and insure and it can be difficult to find permanent moorings for longer boats

Inboard diesel engine on a shaft. Outboards are vulnerable to thieving, use more fuel, generally use petrol (fire risk) and can be a pain to moor stern on. Consider availability of spares/service parts for older engines.

Budget - as a rule of thumb, I would buy the biggest I could afford

Number of berths. Who is going to be on there with you, and how often?  A Freeman 22 can sleep 4 people, but you have to be very good friends!

Design: Personal preference, but I woud prefer a boat that had been designed for Broads/Inland waterway use than, say a sports boat designed for coastal use in warmer climates.

Hope this helps. Good luck!