To Survey Or Not

[MauriceMynah]

Now, play nicely please. Most of us know why I've started this thread, but for those who don't, it's because one of our members has, or is in the process of buying a boat without having a survey done. This has been thought of as no problem by some, a tad unwise by some others, and downright reckless by some more, So, Lets have your views here, thus leaving the other thread alone... BUT play nicely !!!

I have never had a boat I've purchased surveyed.  For my part, I've always given a boat I'm buying a good look over and have either been content or have walked away. Have I ever bought trouble I hadn't expected (that a survey would have picked up)? No! Have I ever lost money on a boat as a result of not having a survey done? No.. Will I ever bother having a survey done on a boat? Well, I'll never say never, but on the whole, I doubt it. Would I recommend others to have surveys done on craft they're thinking of buying? Yes every time. Sorry, but I'm very much "Don't do as I do, do as I say" 

[DaveB]

Well I'm on my third boat and agree totally with what you are saying MM,

I've always gone into any potential purchase with eyes wide open and a huge dose of common sense and always had a good look over what I'm buying before money changes hands.

But it's all down to personal preference and knowledge of what you are looking at. Plus I am in the fortunate position of being able to fix most problems that could crop up from engine rebuild or replacement to structural stuff.

But then what works for me may not work for everyone!

[vanessan]

We had a survey done on our boat before we bought it, mainly because our knowledge of boats was virtually nil apart from driving them on many holidays. The survey turned up a few things that we had to have done before the insurance company would play ball and cover us. Nothing very expensive but the survey did give us peace of mind. I guess this is the difference, if you have been around boats for many years you are probably more comfortable doing without a survey. Our survey also put a value somewhat in excess of the asking price so we were happy bunnies. 

[finny]

Not for a broads boat .however I would pay for lift out and have a good look underside which you have to pay on top of a survey anyway . I did it once things that should have been picked up was not anything else was covered by the wording example - " could not fully examine the tank without removing " etc 

most folk think they have to have a survey to obtain insurance - not true , a boat yard report would be more true for me 

just my thoughts based on my own experiences 

finny

[Vaughan]

I think Vanessan has "hit the spot" here. It depends on your own experience, as the prospective purchaser.

I can look at a boat and know whether it is worth buying or not, but someone "coming in off the street" might need more advice.

As I have always understood it, you can have a full survey, with the boat out of the water or you can ask a surveyor for an "on the water inspection". If it is a GRP boat then this will give you a very good idea of its condition, but will not cost a lot of money.

It is well worth considering a boat being sold by a hire fleet. These are usually sold in "end of season" condition, which means it needs routine winter maintenance but is nonetheless in full running order and you can turn the key and drive it away. A reputable yard will not wish to tarnish its reputation and you will often be offered a guarantee, when buying an ex hire boat. You may also be able to arrange for it to be equipped with deck gear, bedding, crockery and cutlery and they may be able to offer insurance at a good rate, from their own insurers. They may even be able to offer a mooring.

[Ray]

As a recent first time boat owner I didn't get a survey. I asked questions, spoke to the owner and the broker, looked at service receipts, asked other people who weren't selling me a boat about osmosis (another interesting thread running here at the moment) and took the plunge.

Part of my decision was simply that finding a boat that was really what we wanted and suited our circumstances had not been easy and that if we had to spend some money (or a lot of money) on repairs then saving on the cost of the survey would help towards it.

Regarding insurance companies requirements ours asked for details of the survey in view of the boat's age, it was built in 1975. When I told them there was no survey they waived the requirement in favour of a small extra premium and said they would be happy to do the same each year, although the additional premium would increase slightly each time. It really was small though and not a consideration against buying the boat.

If asked I guess I would still advise someone like me to get a survey, but that's mostly because I'm not qualified to give advice..

[Guest]

I did get a survey on my current boat. One thing I did do to maximise the usefulness is be there while it was being done, I came away afterwards pretty confident in what I was about to buy and with a good idea of what improvements I wanted to make so for me I felt it was worth it.

 

 

[MauriceMynah]

7 hours ago, Ray said:

If asked I guess I would still advise someone like me to get a survey, but that's mostly because I'm not qualified to give advice..

Ray, do you realise just how important that statement is? If I could "multilike" a post I would have done.

It's not just how muck knowledge or experience that counts, it's the ability to get that information across to another person in a non ambiguous way that is also vital. To do that the advisor needs to understand the mentality, the intelligence and the level of attention the advisee possesses and is paying.

Were I to tell someone that only wearing a life jacket that's self inflating and has a crotch strap will really significantly improve his chances of survival, should I be surprised if I see him then go off boating wearing nothing but such a life jacket ?

One might accuse me of nit-picking and being a member of the grammar police, but in real life, that happens. Well, not perhaps that one but similar.

How often do tiffs start on the forum because something said has been taken the wrong way. Are we saying that advice is any different?

Anyone remember this one...

Peter Sellers (as Inspector Cleuseu)...   "Does your dog bite?"

Member of the public... "No"

Sellers having bent down to the dog and getting bitten .. "I thought you said your dog didn't bite"

Member of public..  "That is not my dog".

 

[rightsaidfred]

For me its a no brainer, if you are buying in the bargain basement then fair enough a survey isn`t likely to help, once you move up the scale then there are enough hidden areas that won`t show up without a survey or full inspection if you are capable enough, it doesn't take much of a fault to make the cost of a survey recoverable by either having the fault corrected or negotiating a suitable reduction and could save on a large unexpected expense, also with woodies and older GRP boats many insurance companies insist on a survey report.

Fred 

Ooops Originally posted in wrong thread.

[JawsOrca]

Someone once said to me that if they boat is valued over £10k then get a survey, I think mainly because a survey costs about £1k once you tot everything up.  With that in mind, on the toy boats they never had a prepurchase survey, however all boat have always been out the water and we've have a good look around and they have been projects. That changed with Orca which did however have a full insurance survey before she went to Norfolk which proved invaluable when she was damaged and the legal case that followed, that alone ensured she was repaired to the standard before, without that I dread to think, she was also surveyed three times during the repairs to ensure that she still was insured correctly.  When we brought the broom although this was out the water when we brought it again I had a survey completed by my trusted surveyor which I brought in from away from the area (read into that what you want) and I actually spent the day with him and although I thought I knew boats well enough, what he taught me and what they go through clearly demonstrate the importance of a professional survey. The results of that survey showed that a brokers advise is to be well and truly ignored as the boat was not in a seaworthy condition despite the broker being certain it was.

A survey is really worth its weight in gold if anything goes wrong, it helps get the fight the insurance companies, it gives you peace of mind, it helps to keep you safe (moreso than the pesky BSS if you ask me and our surveyor), there is always something wrong with a boat and any cost that you pay for the surveyor you will get back from negotiating).  Despite now being able to survey boats (excluding moisture readings) myself I will always have an upto date insurance survey on any valuable boats. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, JawsOrca said:

Someone once said to me that if they boat is valued over £10k then get a survey, I think mainly because a survey costs about £1k once you tot everything up.

Around half that on a smaller boat, mine was £325, plus £190 for the lift.

[Bexs]

12 hours ago, JawsOrca said:

The results of that survey showed that a brokers advise is to be well and truly ignored as the boat was not in a seaworthy condition despite the broker being certain it was.

No reputable broker would/should make any statements as to the structural or mechanical condition of a boat. Statements like this could land them in hot water! 

Rather they would/ should advise you have a survey/ engine inspection/ sea trial to ensure you are completely happy with the boat pre purchase .

(Or not,  if you are happy with your own capabilities of assessing the condition). 

[Guest]

Brokers can and do state boats to be in good condition, well cared for, well maintained, well presented and all other manner of phrases but by definition they just a middleman and can only base their descriptions on what they have been told by the vendor and what they can see for themselves on a basic level. Anyone who decided to buy without survey or trials would have no comeback on a broker.

 

[quo vadis]

20 minutes ago, 40something said:

Brokers can and do state boats to be in good condition, well cared for, well maintained, well presented and all other manner of phrases but by definition they just a middleman and can only base their descriptions on what they have been told by the vendor and what they can see for themselves on a basic level. Anyone who decided to buy without survey or trials would have no comeback on a broker.

 

And no comeback on a surveyor 

[Bexs]

“ Appears to be...” can be a very useful phrase.

Brokers should only really comment on cosmetic condition. They can list the information supplied by the vendor of maintenance and serviceing that has been carried out. They do have to be careful of misrepresentation. 

A declaration of seaworthyness is not appropriate for a broker. Even if they also happen to be qualified surveyor,  as then they would have a conflict of interests. 

Having said that there are reputable and un-reputable  brokers, as in any profession. 

 

 

 

[JanetAnne]

12 hours ago, 40something said:

Around half that on a smaller boat, mine was £325, plus £190 for the lift.

I've not paid that much for the boat let alone a survey for it!

[ExSurveyor]

Brokers only act in their own and the vendors interest,  no matter how helpful they may appear to a purchaser.

[JamesLV]

Can’t speak for a boat, as I’ve never brought one, but in terms of houses, never had a survey done, didn’t see the point, House had been there for 200 years in that instance, hadn’t fallen down, and I have a useful network of friends who cover most of the trades, so should something untoward come to the surface, I’ll make the most of what I have and deal with it.

I guess it’s similar to Robin’s situation where he knows what he’s looking at, and has a network of friends who can help him if it goes wrong.

Also, small matter of the fact it’s his money, and therefore his choice.

The building surveyors I know have so many get-out clauses in their contracts, they can walk away from pretty much anything anyway.

[rightsaidfred]

Disclaimer

Broker offer the details of this used Boat  in good faith however we are unable to guarantee or warrant the accuracy of this information nor warrant the condition of the vessel. A buyer should instruct his agents, or his surveyors, to investigate such details as the buyer desires validated. This Boat is offered subject to prior sale, price change, or withdrawal without notice.

This is a typical disclaimer I have only removed identifying details

Fred

[Guest]

10 hours ago, JanetAnne said:

I've not paid that much for the boat let alone a survey for it!

Well I did buy a 2.3m dingy last year for £150, I didn't get a survey on that 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, JamesLV said:

Can’t speak for a boat, as I’ve never brought one, but in terms of houses, never had a survey done, didn’t see the point, House had been there for 200 years in that instance, hadn’t fallen down, and I have a useful network of friends who cover most of the trades, so should something untoward come to the surface, I’ll make the most of what I have and deal with it.

I guess it’s similar to Robin’s situation where he knows what he’s looking at, and has a network of friends who can help him if it goes wrong.

Also, small matter of the fact it’s his money, and therefore his choice.

The building surveyors I know have so many get-out clauses in their contracts, they can walk away from pretty much anything anyway.

Of course its individual choice, no one has said otherwise.

Not everyone has the benefit of a network of friends who can help, or can afford to take the cost on the chin if something major turns up after purchase.

As others have said, brokers are not your friend, a surveyor is employed by you and although I agree they have their own get out clauses, they are not going to hide anything from you and most likely will spot any major issues

[TheQ]

When I had to have a survey for a mortgage it was for the lowest level only. I noticed he reported cracks which were minor, and not others which could have been more important. The house having stood for over a hundred years will outlast me...

As for trusting Brokers or estate agents, that was a major point in the failure of Home Information Packs. no one believed they could be trusted so you as buyer had to go and get all the information again.

I had to have  a Boat survey for insurance, but did my own look over when choosing the final boat. So the other boat boat in the final choice, was discarded when the deck squelched!!

I do believe that lift out prices are extortionate, but with such a limited market of such facilities, there is little competition.

 

[grendel]

2 hours ago, TheQ said:

I do believe that lift out prices are extortionate, but with such a limited market of such facilities, there is little competition.

so much easier to just beach the boat on breydon.

[TheQ]

1 minute ago, grendel said:

so much easier to just beach the boat on breydon.

might cost a bit more on Surveyor hours though...

I wonder what would happen if you did that today and started scrubbing your antifouling, although years ago I'd  bet that was common practice.

[Smoggy]

22 minutes ago, TheQ said:

I wonder what would happen if you did that today and started scrubbing your antifouling, although years ago I'd  bet that was common practice.

You'd sink up to your neck in mud and drown probably, that's best left to firm sandy bottoms.