Homophobe? Don't Book With Us!

[Vaughan]

A manager from Hoseasons has announced that they will no longer be taking bookings from homophobic or racist customers and there is a long article about it on the EDP website this morning.

I don't know quite what to say, except to wonder how they think they are going to identify such persons, especially if they book on line. Or will there be a questionnaire, with boxes to tick? For decades, marketing has always targeted certain classes, ages, sexes or races of customers, but I wonder how on earth they think they can insist on this?

Puts the idea of "all male or all female parties" in a different light, anyway!

[grendel]

Maybe there is a simpler way to deter that genre of users, simply have rainbow stripes on the company logo and clearly on all of the boats.

[Chelsea14Ian]

I think the idea is a good one however,I agree with Vaughan.How do you identify those with such views.Must say on the rivers the biggest problem for me is drunkenness and rowdy behaviour.Soon we will be on the boat for two weeks and we nearly always encounter such behaviour. 

[grendel]

That said I do see your point, they can ban customers that have exhibited such behaviour on previous visits, but how can they tell beforehand, maybe this just gives them another control measure / reason to be able to evict someone who exhibits these forms of unreasonable behaviour while on hire. Though I do see that if that person then asked to be forgotten under GPDR they would have to erase their details and would no longer be able to hold their details to enforce a ban.

[NorfolkNog]

I've not read the EDP article but wonder if social media might be involved? Lot of publicity about football players getting abuse at the mo and I'm sure I've heard of prospective employers checking Facebook accounts. Would be very big brother ish of course. It could be a bit toothless but Hoseasons nailing their PC colours to the mast maybe? 

Would I get banned for slagging off John Smiths 

 

Don't forget, careful what you read in the EDP!!!!!!!

[DAVIDH]

Can't help but think what a great marketing ploy to attract people from the LGBT community (and those affected by racism) to your products, irrespective of how it can be policed.

[Meantime]

A total non story really. You need to read the entire article to fully understand how much of a non story it is. News would be a firm that stated they welcomed homophobic or racists customers. Does such a firm exist? probably not, which pretty much means that no firm would welcome homophobic or racist customers, but they just don't feel the need to shout it from the roof tops. What Hoseasons are now claiming to do, is no different from what any other decent business should be doing, so why publicise it now?

On the flip side, if they have now banned such customers, it would mean that they were not banned before!!! Which foot are they shooting themselves in first?

Since the story continues tomorrow with more about Mr Altham's personal struggle, it seems the story is more about Mr Altham, than Hoseasons, but he is using it to gain some useful publicity for the company he works for!!

https://www.edp24.co.uk/business/hoseasons-boss-says-homophobic-and-racist-customers-are-not-welcome-1-6227036

[dnks34]

I don't have any thoughts about LGBT apart from everyone should be able to live the life they so wish.  I did however get a bit miffed when my mobile banking app was changed to a rainbow, not because I have owt against the community but purely because if I am going to support something surely I should be given a choice, for instance I wouldn't expect to wake up and find a political party logo had been installed on my phone overnight without it being of my choice.  

Do we need to keep labelling everything? 

Anyway, am I a racist or a homophobe??!! 

 

[Vaughan]

I think any good human rights lawyer would immediately identify Hoseasons' statement as discriminatory itself, not to say racist as well.

How can they possibly refuse a customer on the grounds of a personal opinion, if that opinion has probably never even been expressed? What will be next? We will only hire boats to members of the Liberal Party? Or Guardian readers?

I would think of this a silly joke if I did not resent the clear suggestion that rural areas are homophobic or racist. I also know how fragile the world of marketing can be, if someone gets the wrong idea. Businesses have collapsed for less.

A comment below the EDP article asks if this might be a Ratner moment. Let us hope not.

[grendel]

having read the article, I think you may have interpreted some of the wording differently to me Vaughan, I dont think there was a clear suggestion that rural areas are homophobic or racist, just that he had heard someone express the fear that they might be.

to me the statement was that anyone who considered themselves to be homophobic or racist should think about booking elsewhere as the company were promoting inclusivism,  ie if you want to complain to the company in a racist or homophobic slant about other peoples activities or race at the holiday venue, then you shouldnt have booked with them in the first place, as they have warned you. its about being inclusive in their advertising.

I think that people who live and work in london are so inclusive nowadays, that such a melting pot of all the extremes that society could bring together, that racism and homophobia are diluted down to a small few, it would be natural for those within that mix therefore to see anywhere where this cultural mix isnt predominant with a degree of trepidation - much as someone from a remote rural area might view London as a crowded and scarey place.

To me people are people and thats where it stops. everyone has as much right to be treated well as anyone else, as long as that works both ways , we should all get on well enough.

[tonplus]

Must admit I haven't seen the tick box on the hire form for racist or homophobic, is it in the small print?

[Cockatoo]

Is this the end of seeing "No same sex parties" on hire company websites?

[grendel]

maybe they will reword it as no stag or hen parties.

[ChrisB]

Made a bit of a mess with that posting from the EDP. But you get the gist. Simon Altham was the MD until the take over by Awaze where he is now CPO. He has always been completely honest about his sexuality in the workplace.

[CambridgeCabby]

Surely to a degree this conflicts with some yards hiring policies .

if two heterosexual couples wish to book a four berth cruiser then there are no added conditions or deposits requested , whereas if two same sex couples wished the same then they would be requested to pay extra deposit at some yards thereby being discriminated against for being in a same sex relationship ?

[Meantime]

6 minutes ago, CambridgeCabby said:

Surely to a degree this conflicts with some yards hiring policies .

if two heterosexual couples wish to book a four berth cruiser then there are no added conditions or deposits requested , whereas if two same sex couples wished the same then they would be requested to pay extra deposit at some yards thereby being discriminated against for being in a same sex relationship ?

And as I found out if two heterosexual single males want to hire a boat you have to pay the same sex extra deposit!!! When I asked for extra bedding as there would be guests joining us for the first weekend and we would need to be able to convert the settee in the saloon I was asked the sex of that couple as well! When they found out it was a heterosexual couple suddenly the extra deposit was waived. All a total nonsense really. Not naming the yard as it was 16 years ago and the ownership of the yard has changed now anyway.

[Coryton]

24 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

And as I found out if two heterosexual single males want to hire a boat you have to pay the same sex extra deposit!!! When I asked for extra bedding as there would be guests joining us for the first weekend and we would need to be able to convert the settee in the saloon I was asked the sex of that couple as well! When they found out it was a heterosexual couple suddenly the extra deposit was waived. All a total nonsense really. Not naming the yard as it was 16 years ago and the ownership of the yard has changed now anyway.

To some extent I think it's one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't situations.

After two weeks on the Broads, I can quite understand the desire to charge an extra damage deposit to groups of young lads out on a boat together.

Putting an age restriction on would probably be illegal. You could leave it up to discretion when booking or taking on the boat...but that becomes contentious. A blanket policy is easy to implement, but then leads to the implication that a same-sex couple are more likely to do something silly to the boat then a heterosexual one, which is unfair.

Thinking about it, a policy of an extra deposit for any same-sex group of three or more might work better. At least then you'd only get the anomaly when two or more same-sex couples share a boat, rather than just one...?

Herbert Woods mention damage deposits for same-sex groups, but also mention for any non-family group. But that could also be a can of worms - what is a "family"?

Of course the easiest solution is to charge everyone the same damage deposit. I looked recently at hiring on the Caledonian Canal and they wanted £500 from all comers.

I think we paid a fairly hefty deposit on Lough Erne.

[dnks34]

1 hour ago, ChrisB said:

Made a bit of a mess with that posting from the EDP. But you get the gist. Simon Altham was the MD until the take over by Awaze where he is now CPO. He has always been completely honest about his sexuality in the workplace.

The bit I find difficult is sexuality (whatever that is to an individual) ought to be an incidental part of existence in this world.  Why does the LGBT community feel they need to have be so honest about anything?!  Isn't anything private anymore! 

Its nothing to be ashamed of but why should anyone need to be honest about their sexuality in the work place or otherwise.

[rightsaidfred]

Well there was me thinking we are in August when its actually April 1st.

Fred

[Meantime]

11 minutes ago, dnks34 said:

Its nothing to be ashamed of but why should anyone need to be honest about their sexuality in the work place or otherwise.

Surely the most important thing is, can they do the job, the rest is irrelevant in terms of their employment.

[grendel]

16 minutes ago, dnks34 said:

Its nothing to be ashamed of but why should anyone need to be honest about their sexuality in the work place or otherwise.

you are quite right, but unfortunately there are individuals who make a point of attacking anyone who they feel is 'different' ,

I suppose in this i would exhibit the typical American religious group response that use their religion to attack anyone who they feel departs from their code of morals, and who are particularly active against LGBT individuals.

rather than treating them as people with different views, they attack and denigrate them, I guess this is why the LGBT community feel obliged to stand up in their defence of their sexuality.

Slowly the world is changing to accept people for what they are, but as long as there are bigots and racists out there, there will be others who feel they have to stand up and shout their differences to all.

Companies should not have to make statements saying they are pro this, anti that, It should be a matter of course that these things are taken as read, but the world hasnt quite reached that equilibrium just yet.

* I use the American example as these groups seem to exhibit the excessive attitudes I mention above, but really it is any group or individuals who attack others actions and beliefs.

[Coryton]

 

18 minutes ago, dnks34 said:

The bit I find difficult is sexuality (whatever that is to an individual) ought to be an incidental part of existence in this world.  Why does the LGBT community feel they need to have be so honest about anything?!  Isn't anything private anymore! 

Its nothing to be ashamed of but why should anyone need to be honest about their sexuality in the work place or otherwise.

I think most people don't take privacy to the level that they never mention their boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/wife/etc. to their colleagues.

So if someone is in a same-sex relationship, it generally takes some rather contorted English not to reveal that.

[Meantime]

You know there is a very strange thing about equality! It's not always equal! but then that's life I suppose.

https://gender-pay-gap.service.gov.uk/Employer/2MrgDKVT/2018

Interesting reading.

 

[grendel]

“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.” 

[Victoryv]

Why do business feel they need to label themselves with their own personal beliefs, all I want to know is can they do the job competently, I don't really want my customers to know my private life.

I'm registered disabled and like supporting cat charities, if I put a sign on my door to this effect, I would be viewed by potential customers as odd at the  very least.

Not saying I am not odd, just don't want to broadcast it, good loyal customers are hard enough to come by.