Latest BA Advice On Covid Lockdown

[Hylander]

Spotted - one paddle boarder.    Taken just now.

[Meantime]

3 minutes ago, Hylander said:

I am quite baffled by what I have read in the previous posts that you are allowed on the rivers in your boat, well how come I have had to cancel our holiday on the 14th?    What is the difference ,  we would have just been 2 old folk on their own.  We live not an hour away.     Same with many people who own their own boats and live locally.   In the first lockdown you rarely saw any boats on the web cams,  really only the odd liveaboard going for provisions.  It was a true lockdown.

 

It is because the latest set of National Restrictions are a lot less restrictive than the first set back in March. That is the part that some people are not able to fathom. It is not about bending the rules, looking for loop holes, doing what suits ones own purpose. This lockdown is different from the first and has a whole different set of less restrictive measures. Once people stop making comparisons to the first they will realise that people are not being selfish in following the current set of rules, they are being realistic that in some form or another we all have to learn to live with this virus in the long term. We are all going to have to adapt and learn to keep our distance for the foreseeable, not just the next four weeks. Hands, Face and Space is here until, or if a vaccine arrives. No one would need to be locked down in their home if everybody just kept more than 2m apart at all times. If you can be trusted to leave your house and keep more than 2m away from anyone else, sanitise regularly and wear a face mask when required, you will not be part of the problem. The problem is not sensible taking sensible precautions, but the ignorant 9 out of 10 who did not quarantine when requested by track and trace, or upon their return to this country from one of the travel corridor exempt countries. The problem is those that refuse to wear masks when they are able to. The problem is the people who still insist on mixing in large groups indoors or meeting up in large groups outdoors. 

[ExSurveyor]

42 minutes ago, Meantime said:

The problem is not sensible taking sensible precautions, but the ignorant 9 out of 10 who did not quarantine when requested by track and trace, or upon their return to this country from one of the travel corridor exempt countries. The problem is those that refuse to wear masks when they are able to. The problem is the people who still insist on mixing in large groups indoors or meeting up in large groups outdoors. 

And on that we can agree .

If we ever get a definitive answer on boats and all things boating I will be up to Norfolk like a shot,with my supplies under my arm but until there is clarity I will stay away.

Bojo did say at the start that this lockdown will be less restrictive, unfortunately departments and quangos seem in a rush to misinterpret or just ignore any potential details that may be different for boaters this time.

Who knows, by the end of next week someone in authority may have made a decision, possibly.

We have the BA and EA saying one thing, NP, RYA, Marina owners group, Dept for culture and DEFRA all saying different things to each other.

Only another 25 days to go.

[Meantime]

17 minutes ago, psychicsurveyor said:

If we ever get a definitive answer on boats and all things boating I will be up to Norfolk like a shot,with my supplies under my arm but until there is clarity I will stay away.

I will urge caution and say that I don't expect for one moment that overnight stays will be allowed, that is very clear in the current Bill and guidance.

I would hope that the BA would remove it's misleading guidance until it has received the clarification it seeks. Although it would appear that DCMS have already clarified that recreational boating is allowed. 

[Vaughan]

3 hours ago, psychicsurveyor said:

I saw a mink on the pontoon at Brundall Gardens earlier in the summer, bold as brass. Thankfully I maintained social distancing.

Funny that.

Brundall Gardens was where the Coypu was first introduced to the Broads.  They were released from a Nutrea farm there, which went out of business during the War.  Another big mistake, that was!

[JennyMorgan]

1 hour ago, Meantime said:

Although it would appear that DCMS have already clarified that recreational boating is allowed. 

The BA had available the same information as did those managing the Lakes and the canals, yet only the one authority chose to interpret as 'no boating', typical, just typical!

[marshman]

I tend to agree with PW (again! ) and it seems that once again it appears the BA are involved in foot shooting!

There seems to have been absolutely no need to seek to clarify the issue with DEFRA at such an early stage - did the real NP's feel the need to do this or perhaps those in charge of making this decision here just missed out a page in their haste? Why ask when others did not see the need?

Whatever happens they appear to continue to lose support , again, and by their actions continue to irritate the few friends they had on the rhond. Dear oh dear presumably they soon will have little left to shoot but if this is misplaced decision making just to prove they have the "authority", it is doing them no favours whatsoever.

At the very least they could have waited 24/48hrs to check what other similar bodies were doing - perhaps they will be drummed out of the NP family for being too hasty?

[JennyMorgan]

3 hours ago, Vaughan said:

Another big mistake, that was!

It was also a real earner for anyone with a handful of cage traps and a .22 rifle! The winter of '62/'63 was rich pickings as the coypu weren't as fast as yours truly on ice skates.

[JennyMorgan]

14 minutes ago, marshman said:

perhaps they will be drummed out of the NP family for being too hasty?

If only! Actually I don't see anything wrong with family membership but of course by now we surely all realise that that was simply a case of getting 'his' foot through the door. If only the real national parks would insist on the Broads abandoning the mythical NP title.

[BroadsAuthority]

Hi all,

I have been on annual leave for a few days, returning today. Unfortunately I'm not able to respond to messages/posts on here whilst I'm not at work.

I can see there has been a lot of conflicting information between different organisations and I am sure we will be issuing an update shortly.

I will have a quick skim of this thread and try to answer any questions.

What I do know is that the information posted on this webpage https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-guidance-on-phased-return-of-sport-and-recreation/guidance-for-the-public-on-the-phased-return-of-outdoor-sport-and-recreation by a poster on page two is outdated/superseded. I am not sure why it is still on the Government website.

Best,

Tom

[grendel]

Thanks Tom, the differences between areas is causing a great deal of confusion over what is an isnt allowed

[Paladin]

2 hours ago, BroadsAuthority said:

Hi all,

I have been on annual leave for a few days, returning today. Unfortunately I'm not able to respond to messages/posts on here whilst I'm not at work.

I can see there has been a lot of conflicting information between different organisations and I am sure we will be issuing an update shortly.

I will have a quick skim of this thread and try to answer any questions.

What I do know is that the information posted on this webpage https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-guidance-on-phased-return-of-sport-and-recreation/guidance-for-the-public-on-the-phased-return-of-outdoor-sport-and-recreation by a poster on page two is outdated/superseded. I am not sure why it is still on the Government website.

Best,

Tom

Tom, I realise you're trying to be helpful, but why is outdated guidance still displayed on the Broad Authority's web site?

Just one example: "You should avoid travelling in or out of your local area, and you should look to reduce the number of journeys you make." This is said to be "from Government guidance".

No, that no longer appears in Government guidance, which has been updated to "If you live in England, you must stay at home and avoid travel in the UK or overseas, unless for work, education or other legally permitted reasons. If you need to travel you should look to reduce the number of journeys if possible." https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-national-restrictions-from-5-november#travel

[unclemike]

if people on hireboats were told to go home how come I've just seen brooklyn bridge moored at the pilots staithe on the wroxham wwebcam

[JennyMorgan]

9 minutes ago, chameleon said:

if people on hireboats were told to go home how come I've just seen brooklyn bridge moored at the pilots staithe on the wroxham wwebcam

At a guess they are on a two week holiday or out Wednesday to Wednesday or whatever, lucky people. 

[Meantime]

50 minutes ago, chameleon said:

if people on hireboats were told to go home how come I've just seen brooklyn bridge moored at the pilots staithe on the wroxham wwebcam

They were not told to go home. They were told if you are already on a holiday you could continue it to the end. That was one of the few exceptions to the no overstay stays away from home.

[marshman]

There appears to be no change as to what you can do on the Lakes - same rules, different interpretation I guess.

[Meantime]

19 minutes ago, marshman said:

There appears to be no change as to what you can do on the Lakes - same rules, different interpretation I guess.

That's partly because Defra have said

"no sector specific guidance would be produced and instead, individual businesses should interpret and comply with high level government guidance published on the Gov.uk website.’"

So the BA have jumped to their own restrictive interpretation of the National Restrictions and when questioned have said they will go back to Defra and get further guidance. The very same body who have already said they will not be issuing sector specific guidance.

Smells like delaying tactics to me. They might actually be worried if they were voted into their positions! Just one more nail in the coffin that is already a very strained relationship between the BA and it's stake holders.

[grendel]

meanwhile, I spotted this article from the manchester evening news (https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/car-insurance-could-invalid-you-19243516?fbclid=IwAR3JeeNwtBCBtqXBdYYkGRbRrNG1SHu6tZukMVzm-ctC7v60K_RAXD_pTMY) that says your car insurance may be invalid if you are travelling for a non essential purpose and quote

Quote

Specialist motoring lawyer Nick Freeman, known as Mr Loophole for helping celeb clients facing driving charges, said: “Essential travel is largely defined as ­shopping for necessities, picking up medical supplies, caring for a vulnerable person and getting to and from work if you cannot do so from home.”

He added: “Anything else is not really acceptable. If you have an accident and can’t prove your journey was essential your ­insurance may be void.”

interestingly no mention is made of 'to exercise' as essential travel.

so just be aware that insurance companies may use any travel not deemed essential (in their eyes) to avoid paying out should you have an accident.

I suppose another reason to stay at home and not go anywhere then, and yet another person to explain why your journey was essential to (and we all know how good insurance companies are at wriggling out of paying).

this would also be a good reason why you might want to go shopping by boat rather than taking the car! provided of course that your boat is ready to hand.

Of course marine insurance might take a similar stance, so its probably also worth contacting your insurer and checking you are covered if you want to use your boat during lockdown.

[Paladin]

59 minutes ago, grendel said:

meanwhile, I spotted this article from the manchester evening news (https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/car-insurance-could-invalid-you-19243516?fbclid=IwAR3JeeNwtBCBtqXBdYYkGRbRrNG1SHu6tZukMVzm-ctC7v60K_RAXD_pTMY) that says your car insurance may be invalid if you are travelling for a non essential purpose and quote

interestingly no mention is made of 'to exercise' as essential travel.

so just be aware that insurance companies may use any travel not deemed essential (in their eyes) to avoid paying out should you have an accident.

I suppose another reason to stay at home and not go anywhere then, and yet another person to explain why your journey was essential to (and we all know how good insurance companies are at wriggling out of paying).

this would also be a good reason why you might want to go shopping by boat rather than taking the car! provided of course that your boat is ready to hand.

Of course marine insurance might take a similar stance, so its probably also worth contacting your insurer and checking you are covered if you want to use your boat during lockdown.

Is the Manchester Evening News in the Archant Group? They have similarly low reporting standards. They have taken a report from another newspaper and incorrectly copied it.

Let me repeat, for the umpteenth time, leaving home for exercise IS permitted and ‘non-essential travel’ is not mentioned in the regulations. 

I really don’t understand the push to pump out fake news on this and other platforms.
 

 

 

[Meantime]

47 minutes ago, grendel said:

meanwhile, I spotted this article from the manchester evening news (https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/car-insurance-could-invalid-you-19243516?fbclid=IwAR3JeeNwtBCBtqXBdYYkGRbRrNG1SHu6tZukMVzm-ctC7v60K_RAXD_pTMY) that says your car insurance may be invalid if you are travelling for a non essential purpose and quote

interestingly no mention is made of 'to exercise' as essential travel.

so just be aware that insurance companies may use any travel not deemed essential (in their eyes) to avoid paying out should you have an accident.

I suppose another reason to stay at home and not go anywhere then, and yet another person to explain why your journey was essential to (and we all know how good insurance companies are at wriggling out of paying).

this would also be a good reason why you might want to go shopping by boat rather than taking the car! provided of course that your boat is ready to hand.

Of course marine insurance might take a similar stance, so its probably also worth contacting your insurer and checking you are covered if you want to use your boat during lockdown.

its best to check here -https://sharechecklist.gov.uk/ before posting speculative items that might lead you into trouble. 

Seriously though that article first appeared in the Mirror!!!!!! that paragon of virtue, purveyor of the truth! I thought we didn't recycle stories from the gutter press here.

I have download the Bill and performed a search on it, as well as searching the guidance notes. Essential travel and necessary travel do not appear in either texts. The phrases that come up are as follows;

Without reasonable excuse

Reasonable excuse; and a later definition of reasonable excuses

Legally permitted reasons

The bill is attached below and the guidance can be found here

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-national-restrictions-from-5-november

uksi_20201200_en.pdf

[Cheesey69]

55 minutes ago, grendel said:

meanwhile, I spotted this article from the manchester evening news (https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/car-insurance-could-invalid-you-19243516?fbclid=IwAR3JeeNwtBCBtqXBdYYkGRbRrNG1SHu6tZukMVzm-ctC7v60K_RAXD_pTMY) that says your car insurance may be invalid if you are travelling for a non essential purpose and quote

interestingly no mention is made of 'to exercise' as essential travel.

so just be aware that insurance companies may use any travel not deemed essential (in their eyes) to avoid paying out should you have an accident.

I suppose another reason to stay at home and not go anywhere then, and yet another person to explain why your journey was essential to (and we all know how good insurance companies are at wriggling out of paying).

this would also be a good reason why you might want to go shopping by boat rather than taking the car! provided of course that your boat is ready to hand.

Of course marine insurance might take a similar stance, so its probably also worth contacting your insurer and checking you are covered if you want to use your boat during lockdown.

It all boils down to the name “lockdown “ 

The government and scientists have be trying to steer us away from using the term. 
it implies this lockdown legislation is the same as the last. 
It isn’t 

The PM said it isn’t but we are all guilty hearing what we want to. 
Even with the legislation posted here people still refuse to see

that includes government departments and indeed, big business. 
The definition of essential travel has widened so far as to be virtually unenforceable. See future court cases for any prosecutions

[grendel]

yes hoist on my own petard for not spending the time to check,

do we know what insurance companies are actually planning though, as while it may be quoted incorrectly from the mirror, it must be leading some insurance companies to at least think about the possibilities.

do we know how other companies will react to the new legislation, I would imagine things are going to get quite complicated with what is allowed and what is not, if every company and person is working the their own interpretation of what is allowed and what isnt, herein lies the underlying confusion. 

Me, I think I will suck my head into my shell and stay at home except for shopping. (getting an online delivery here is still a nightmare)

[Meantime]

1 hour ago, grendel said:

Of course marine insurance might take a similar stance, so its probably also worth contacting your insurer and checking you are covered

Your right to flag this up as Marine Insurance "could" become invalid during lockdown. A lot of policies do have limits on how long you can leave your vessel unattended and without being checked, so to use the Mirror's parlance your marine insurance could be invalid if you don't check regularly on your boat.

I did check with my insurer during the first lock down and was told that should a claim be necessary for an incident during lock down and the boat had been left for an extended period of time that they would take into account such items as, had the boat been regularly maintained and serviced before lock down when deciding any claim.

They weren't keen to state an actual policy as such, but were basically saying that if the boat was a wreck beforehand you might have a problem making a valid claim, if not then you should be ok.

[Meantime]

Having reread the Mirror article again, it is basically an advertorial for a number of people wishing to raise the profile of their companies, including a Florence Codjoe, of website Uswitch.com, who warned drivers not to cancel insurance unless they have off-street parking.

Off course thieves never steal cars from driveways do they! Mind you if anyone is dumb enough to follow such advice then they probably shouldn't be driving on the road in the first place.

[Meantime]

There has just been a very interesting segment on BBC Breakfast at 8:45 by John Maguire. For anyone who still has any doubts that this current set of National Restrictions are different to the first set, or the intent or the spirit, I strongly urge you to go to BBC iPlayer and watch the 5min segment on either the BBC news or BBC breakfast on BBC1 channels.

A truly uplifting piece about the difference and how you can go outdoors for leisure. How you can just sit and relax outdoors. How The National Trust gardens are open and welcoming visitors. How it is good for mental health and well being. One particular quote I liked from Anne Webb describing her days out as "a gin and tonic without the gin. It is just a tonic to be outdoors"   

Mark Agnew National Trust. "Lets make sure that people can enjoy the outdoors. Lets make sure they can enjoy our gardens and our parks. Lets make sure that their mental and physical health is topped back up again because these are tough times for everyone"

John Maguire BBC News "We know lockdown can be depressing frustrating and isolating, but if you can there is solace to be had outside the four walls of confinement."