Latest BA Advice On Covid Lockdown

[ExSurveyor]

So that would still exclude privately owned marinas, especially those with any form of barrier and more so those that have decided, for whatever reason, to close.

[Meantime]

3 minutes ago, psychicsurveyor said:

It would need to go back to Parliament for new legislation.

Another lockdown will be necessary if people continue to ignore the advice and hunt for loop holes.

 

What did we learn from the first lock down? That we did not kill off the virus, merely suppressed it. The same will happen this time and the next time until there is a vaccine and I'm under no illusion that is happening anytime soon. 

What will help is people taking sensible precautions not just during lock down, but before and after. The single biggest things people can do is wash their hands or sanitise, cover their face and keep their distance. Learn to live safely with the virus until their is a vaccine when ever that is. Avoid crowded places at all times, not just during lock down.

The biggest thing that is going to make this lock down ineffective is not closing schools and universities. Parents dropping little Johnny at the school gates and chatting with 4 or 5 other parents for 20 mins. Little Johnny sitting in a closed in environment with 30 others for 6 or 7 hours and then going home and spreading the virus amongst the family unit, who then go and have a firework party with their extended family.

It will not be because I got in my car alone, drove to a recycling centre and stayed more than 2m from the nearest person, dropped of my recycling, sanitised my hands, got back in my car and drove back home and washed my hands again.

It will not be because I got in my car alone and drove 45mins to a country park and met one other person and walked with them for 1hr keeping our distance from each other and anyone else we passed on the walk. Then driving home alone.

Or because I went to my boat and did a few jobs whilst making sure that at no point during my journey, or the time there that I came any closer than 2m to anyone.

[Paul]

32 minutes ago, psychicsurveyor said:

It would need to go back to Parliament for new legislation.

indeed, as this lockdown did, but that is only a formality. Her Majesty's opposition have already confirmed that they will vote with the government, as long as the "experts" state an extension is necessary. 

It seems strange to me that the BA seems to have curtailed almost everything, yet in a real National Park the LDNP says pretty much everything remains open and boating in all it's forms, man powered, wind powered or motorised is still permitted. 

[Mouldy]

8 minutes ago, Meantime said:

What did we learn from the first lock down? That we did not kill off the virus, merely suppressed it. The same will happen this time and the next time until there is a vaccine and I'm under no illusion that is happening anytime soon. 

What will help is people taking sensible precautions not just during lock down, but before and after. The single biggest things people can do is wash their hands or sanitise, cover their face and keep their distance. Learn to live safely with the virus until their is a vaccine when ever that is. Avoid crowded places at all times, not just during lock down.

The biggest thing that is going to make this lock down ineffective is not closing schools and universities. Parents dropping little Johnny at the school gates and chatting with 4 or 5 other parents for 20 mins. Little Johnny sitting in a closed in environment with 30 others for 6 or 7 hours and then going home and spreading the virus amongst the family unit, who then go and have a firework party with their extended family.

It will not be because I got in my car alone, drove to a recycling centre and stayed more than 2m from the nearest person, dropped of my recycling, sanitised my hands, got back in my car and drove back home and washed my hands again.

It will not be because I got in my car alone and drove 45mins to a country park and met one other person and walked with them for 1hr keeping our distance from each other and anyone else we passed on the walk. Then driving home alone.

Or because I went to my boat and did a few jobs whilst making sure that at no point during my journey, or the time there that I came any closer than 2m to anyone.

Exactly my thoughts.  Despite all of the horror stories in the papers showing crowded beaches through June, July and August and alleging the immediate onset of the ‘second wave’, it didn’t happen.  The cases only started to increase when schools, colleges and universities went back in September.  Personally, I think BoJo missed a trick in not having a two week lockdown, including schools etc., at the same time as the half term holidays, but what do I know? 
What we do know is that using figures to project potential death rates that were already a month old and seriously flawed, was bound to cause panic and increase concern amongst certain elements of society.

There may never be a vaccine and how long can this country survive economically with lockdown after lockdown.  We are going to have to learn to live with the virus, take necessary precautions and always remember that the chances of surviving it are far, far higher than dying from it.  Like it or not, cancer affects 50% of us, but we aren’t hiding away from that.
 

[ExSurveyor]

I agree, the problem is 66 million people thinking,

I only had a quick chat with Japonica's mum,

We only had two extra to the firework party,

And on and on.

The whole purpose of the lockdown isn't to eliminate the virus, it is to suppress it, that can only be achieved by everyone following the guidance.

 

 

[Paul]

2 minutes ago, psychicsurveyor said:

I agree, the problem is 66 million people thinking,

or an alarming number of those 66 million just not thinking.

[ExSurveyor]

2 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

Like it or not, cancer affects 50% of us, but we aren’t hiding away from that.

That is because I can't infect you with cancer so hiding away will not affect the chance of developing it.

[ExSurveyor]

2 minutes ago, Paul said:

or an alarming number of those 66 million just not thinking.

A slight distortion of my quote but yes, just as true.

[rightsaidfred]

7 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

Exactly my thoughts.  Despite all of the horror stories in the papers showing crowded beaches through June, July and August and alleging the immediate onset of the ‘second wave’, it didn’t happen.  The cases only started to increase when schools, colleges and universities went back in September.  Personally, I think BoJo missed a trick in not having a two week lockdown, including schools etc., at the same time as the half term holidays, but what do I know? 
What we do know is that using figures to project potential death rates that were already a month old and seriously flawed, was bound to cause panic and increase concern amongst certain elements of society.

There may never be a vaccine and how long can this country survive economically with lockdown after lockdown.  We are going to have to learn to live with the virus, take necessary precautions and always remember that the chances of surviving it are far, far higher than dying from it.  Like it or not, cancer affects 50% of us, but we aren’t hiding away from that.
 

About the same as all the other countries in lockdown I guess.

Fred

[Vaughan]

36 minutes ago, marshman said:

I wish Vaughan, that I could winterise mine in an hour!!!

Maybe you have never had to run a fleet of a hundred hire boats.

By the way, that hour includes changing the oil and the oil filter.  You have had the engine running so as to make sure the batteries keep charged while you are emptying and draining the domestic water.  So while the engine is warm, change the oil.  Old sump oil is acidic and will eat away at the crankshaft journals if you leave it in for the winter.

Soft furnishings and curtains will come to no harm if you have left plenty of VENTILATION.  Leave all hopper windows open; open all doors; half open all drawers and cupboard doors and let plenty of air flow through the boat.  Mattresses can be stood up sideways to get air on both sides of them.

You can run a bit of antifreeze through the shower drain pump while you are doing the raw water system.  Same goes for the toilets.

Leave all water taps half open and lay the shower heads down on the shower tray to drain.

By the way, if your boat is stored ashore, make sure you open the weed filter valves again once you are hauled out. If not, there is still river water in there, which might freeze and shatter the valve castings. Then when the boat is put back in next spring, you will find you have expensive problems!

[Mouldy]

5 minutes ago, psychicsurveyor said:

That is because I can't infect you with cancer so hiding away will not affect the chance of developing it.

Get that, but a lot less than 1% of people with COVID will die from it.  We’re also forgetting the effects that being made redundant and unable to pay to live will be having on an ever growing number of families, which is impacting their mental well being.  There is more to this than the effects of the virus itself, which also need consideration.  Dozens of companies are going to the wall, or laying off vast numbers of employees and that is without the inevitable cost of a ‘no deal’ Brexit which will surely follow.

Yes, a vaccine may help, but they’ve been researching a cure for the common cold for years and still haven’t found one and despite all the effort going into the medical research for this, it may prove fruitless.  In any case, as with other forms of COVID (which the common cold is one), what’s to say it won’t mutate and make a vaccine ineffective.

It took 60 years for us to pay for the cost of the Second World War.  How long will it take to pay for the rapidly escalating costs of this? 

[Meantime]

39 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

Exactly my thoughts.  Despite all of the horror stories in the papers showing crowded beaches through June, July and August and alleging the immediate onset of the ‘second wave’, it didn’t happen.  The cases only started to increase when schools, colleges and universities went back in September.  Personally, I think BoJo missed a trick in not having a two week lockdown, including schools etc., at the same time as the half term holidays, but what do I know? 
What we do know is that using figures to project potential death rates that were already a month old and seriously flawed, was bound to cause panic and increase concern amongst certain elements of society.

There may never be a vaccine and how long can this country survive economically with lockdown after lockdown.  We are going to have to learn to live with the virus, take necessary precautions and always remember that the chances of surviving it are far, far higher than dying from it.  Like it or not, cancer affects 50% of us, but we aren’t hiding away from that.
 

Below is a little time lapse video I made of me scrolling through one of the governments covid tracking website. I started at the beginning of August. You can see that eat out to help out had a negative effect and then stabilised. Even when little Johnny went back to school it was stable for the first week or two of incubation period, then it exploded to where we are now.

[SteveO]

If this does end on 2nd December, what does the government think people will be doing from the 3rd? Straight to the pub, restaurant and shops. We will be back to where we were at the beginning of lock-down by the end of December.  I can't see how a few people on boats chugging round alone would make any material difference to the bigger picture. More likely the BA indulging in their enduring fantasy of a boatless Broads.

 

[JennyMorgan]

20 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

but a lot less than 1% of people with COVID will die from it.

Is it really a lot less? I will state the obvious, 1% is one in a hundred and ten in a thousand, that 1% could so easily be a loved one. We all go eventually, but do we need to hasten the event?

[grendel]

i see we have had a message from DEFRA to British Marine

Quote

The good news is you can use your boat for recreational purposes.

But according to British Marine, DEFRA officials have stated they do not consider private individuals visiting their boats for maintenance, or winterisation purposes, as an essential activity. But, DEFRA has confirmed a member of the public can pay a business to maintain their boat on their behalf during the lockdown.

https://marineindustrynews.co.uk/defra-rules-on-recreational-boating/?fbclid=IwAR2WJzfQFBAvqOdJy-cj05c4Mo8Q6zBdRWJk5nvq2MWRApmkT6pDh6lRqHQ

Quote

DCMS has now confirmed that recreational boating can be part of an outdoor exercise regime either alone, with 1 other person, or within your household or bubble, with guidance stating: “There is no restriction on the type of activity you can do when exercising, provided that you are within the permitted gathering limits. All forms of water sports practised on open waterways, including sailing, windsurfing, canoeing, rowing, kayaking, surfing, paddle-boarding and the use of privately owned motorised craft (in line with the guidance issued by the relevant navigation authority) are allowed provided that the guidance on social distancing is observed.” However, British Marine advises checking with local marinas, navigation authorities and clubs beforehand.

I have quoted verbatim from the web page linked, but have highlighted the one important part.

[ExSurveyor]

If 1% is not a problem and you know 100 people ( you actually like ) can you choose the 1%.

Since February I have lost 4 people I know and like to the virus, one was a fit and healthy 45 year old. Last night I found out that another one has been blue lighted to intensive care.

I won't be spending time looking for loop holes or trying to convince those who don't want to listen, I will do as I have been requested and staying at home.

The Goverment has spent huge amounts of our money to protect the public, the least we can do is play our part.

 

[Meantime]

6 minutes ago, grendel said:

i see we have had a message from DEFRA to British Marine

I have quoted verbatim from the web page linked, but have highlighted the one important part.

At last common sense prevails.

[Islander]

7 minutes ago, grendel said:

in line with the guidance issued by the relevant navigation authority

There is the catch. 
 

Colin 

[JennyMorgan]

1 minute ago, Islander said:

There is the catch. 

Not really, there is only so much in the way that the BA can restrict access. 

[grendel]

meanwhile the BA website still shows the update from yesterday - https://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/news/coronavirus-covid-19

[Islander]

1 hour ago, grendel said:

meanwhile the BA website still shows the update from yesterday - https://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/news/coronavirus-covid-19

Still no advice for live aboard boaters. Still comes up as ‘page not found’. I’m sure it will be the same as the first lockdown which means we can navigate for the purpose of refuelling, pump out and water. I think we can also travel by boat for essential supplies so a trip to Norwich riverside to shop in Morrison’s would be allowed. So, before I need to put my tin hat on. We, in fact have all the necessary services on the island and enough food for at least 2weeks and probably a month with dried and tinned stuff. So we will be staying home as much as we can. 
 Now defra have interpreted the gov ‘nonessential travel’ as meaning travelling to a boat to maintain it. I wonder what the environment agency think of that stance. Oh but you can pay for someone else to go and do it for you. Great idea unless you are boating on a budget. How many boat owners are on pension, low income or have just lost their jobs etc etc, but if a boat sinks.

Today has turned out to be a beautiful sunny day here at Thorpe Green, the paddle boarders are out, about eight so far, canoes, a rowing boat and a small (local) cruiser. Thursday evening we had one of the local canoe clubs, about 20 of them, racing around the island 3 times. This is, at the moment, acceptable exercise but pouring antifreeze into my exhaust system and draining my freshwater is not essential travel.

Now I know ‘rules is rules’ but sometime the only way to improve a rule is to break it and only then will someone take a closer look at why a rule was broken. Being the sad person that I am I signed up to get gov email daily and these generally have 30 to 40 changes to wording to guidance  just which just shows how fluid the current situation is.

Just to reiterate, we will not be going to st olaves to winterise Lady Linda but hope to bring her back to Norwich for the winter mid December (spring tide for Thorpe railway bridge).

Stay safe everyone. Let’s hope the animal rights people don’t start releasing mink.

Colin 

 

[Islander]

Apologies, just corrected the speelling mistookes..........possibly.

[ExSurveyor]

6 minutes ago, Islander said:

Stay safe everyone. Let’s hope the animal rights people don’t start releasing mink.

I saw a mink on the pontoon at Brundall Gardens earlier in the summer, bold as brass. Thankfully I maintained social distancing.

[Mouldy]

2 hours ago, psychicsurveyor said:

If 1% is not a problem and you know 100 people ( you actually like ) can you choose the 1%.

Since February I have lost 4 people I know and like to the virus, one was a fit and healthy 45 year old. Last night I found out that another one has been blue lighted to intensive care.

I won't be spending time looking for loop holes or trying to convince those who don't want to listen, I will do as I have been requested and staying at home.

The Goverment has spent huge amounts of our money to protect the public, the least we can do is play our part.

 

Get all of that, but following this lockdown people will get together for Christmas, the virus will explode again and by February, we’ll potentially need another lockdown.  There is already much apathy towards this one.  How will the public react towards another . . . . . and without a vaccine another as the cycle continues.

How will couples plan to marry?  I know someone who should have married earlier this year who was forced to postpone the wedding and now has to postpone it again.  How can we plan holidays?  How many more companies will close as the result of potential additional lockdowns?  How many people will lose their homes as the result of loss of earnings?  Mental illness will escalate. 
Like it or not, we are going to have to live with this, taking what precautions we can, but the consequences of further lockdowns aren’t worth contemplating 

For centuries, we as a race, have tried to interfere with nature.  We have vaccines for various diseases, treatments for others.  People are living longer and our needs for the natural resources is ever increasing.  Is this nature’s way of throwing a curved ball at us to try to restore some balance?

[Hylander]

32 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

Get all of that, but following this lockdown people will get together for Christmas, the virus will explode again and by February, we’ll potentially need another lockdown.  There is already much apathy towards this one.  How will the public react towards another . . . . . and without a vaccine another as the cycle continues.

How will couples plan to marry?  I know someone who should have married earlier this year who was forced to postpone the wedding and now has to postpone it again.  How can we plan holidays?  How many more companies will close as the result of potential additional lockdowns?  How many people will lose their homes as the result of loss of earnings?  Mental illness will escalate. 
Like it or not, we are going to have to live with this, taking what precautions we can, but the consequences of further lockdowns aren’t worth contemplating 

For centuries, we as a race, have tried to interfere with nature.  We have vaccines for various diseases, treatments for others.  People are living longer and our needs for the natural resources is ever increasing.  Is this nature’s way of throwing a curved ball at us to try to restore some balance?

Doesn't make for good reading Mouldy but every word you have typed is so true.    It is like being in a revolving door you can never get out of.      We went out for a walk this morning and the number of cars on the road,  we both said this lockdown is nothing like the first,  when we used to walk before for our exercise ( I say the word exercise loosely) all cars were parked in drives and in the roads, no body went out unless it was absolutely necessary.

I am quite baffled by what I have read in the previous posts that you are allowed on the rivers in your boat, well how come I have had to cancel our holiday on the 14th?    What is the difference ,  we would have just been 2 old folk on their own.  We live not an hour away.     Same with many people who own their own boats and live locally.   In the first lockdown you rarely saw any boats on the web cams,  really only the odd liveaboard going for provisions.  It was a true lockdown.