Latest BA Advice On Covid Lockdown

[Meantime]

3 minutes ago, grendel said:

ok, so having checked the regulations i find this- 

so necessary or unnecessary was just the wording used in the preliminary announcement, - semantics again,

so if we replace all my necessarys and unnecessarys with 'without a reasonable excuse', you have to persuade the police officer that your excuse is reasonable, and then its down to them if they accept the fact or not, you are getting hung up on the actual wording, and not the intent of the laws / regulations, if the police officer decides your excuse is not reasonable, you are stuck with it.

And the very next line down from that line you quoted says;

(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1)— (a) the circumstances in which a person has a reasonable excuse include where one of the exceptions set out in regulation 6 applies;

and further down, one of those exceptions is;

(d) to visit a public outdoor place for the purposes of open air recreation

[grendel]

i may have inadvertantly been quoting the scottish guidelines 

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-guidance-on-travel-and-transport/

which uses the word unnecessary 5 times in relation to travel, 

but at the end of the day its not how its worded, unnecessary - or without a reasonable excuse, the meaning is clear enough, the intent is clear.

[Lulu]

8 minutes ago, grendel said:

the whole aim is to reduce the chances of spreading the virus - to others, and between areas, which wont work if everyone decides to go for a day out on their boat, or to the beach, or .......

Exactly, we should be staying at home if at all possible!!!!  
 

I freely admit my mental health is not in a good place right now. My dog died during first lockdown and finding it impossible to get another at the moment, especially now the rescue centres have shut again. My work is extremely stressful and I actually want to be furloughed to have a break  but that wont happen.  Going to the boat is my sanctuary. Even if our marina was open, I wouldnt go because the message is to stay at home.  
 

I will not interpret the guidance to suit what I want to do. 

[grendel]

1 minute ago, Meantime said:

and further down, one of those exceptions is;

(d) to visit a public outdoor place for the purposes of open air recreation

Which then leads to the question is your boat an outdoor place and is it open air recreation, that will be down to interpretation, I wont say you cant go to your boat, but if stopped its down to the police  officers interpretation.

currently the BA website says no, but they have it under review awaiting DEFRA guidance. they may reverse that decision, or other areas that currently allow motor boating may reverse theirs, who knows

[Meantime]

1 minute ago, grendel said:

i may have inadvertantly been quoting the scottish guidelines 

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-guidance-on-travel-and-transport/

which uses the word unnecessary 5 times in relation to travel, 

but at the end of the day its not how its worded, unnecessary - or without a reasonable excuse, the meaning is clear enough, the intent is clear.

I can see that the intent is clear, which is to allow a limited but longer list of things you can do in this lock down. This is no longer lockdown number 1. It has a different set of rules, different guidance and designed to be less damaging to education as well as to people's mental health.

I suggest if people are at all worried about what they can and cannot do, they read the guidance below;

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-national-restrictions-from-5-november

or the latest enactment of the corona virus bill below,

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1200/pdfs/uksi_20201200_en.pdf

and take everything that the "experts" say with a pinch of salt.

[Vaughan]

6 minutes ago, grendel said:

the meaning is clear enough, the intent is clear.

My intent is to stay in bed and have another cup of coffee, on a rather blustery Saturday morning.

On Monday I shall ring the boatyard and they will winterise the boat for me. If it costs an hour's labour, so be it. I wonder if those in marinas have considered asking a travelling mechanic to do it? There are several on the Broads.

[Meantime]

2 minutes ago, grendel said:

Which then leads to the question is your boat an outdoor place and is it open air recreation, that will be down to interpretation, I wont say you cant go to your boat, but if stopped its down to the police  officers interpretation.

currently the BA website says no, but they have it under review awaiting DEFRA guidance. they may reverse that decision, or other areas that currently allow motor boating may reverse theirs, who knows

and currently the Lake District National Park website updated on the 6th November has the following "guidance" for boating.

https://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/visiting/things-to-do/water/access-to-the-lakes

 

[grendel]

Just now, Meantime said:

I suggest if people are at all worried about what they can and cannot do, they read the guidance below;

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-national-restrictions-from-5-november

or the latest enactment of the corona virus bill below,

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1200/pdfs/uksi_20201200_en.pdf

and take everything that the "experts" say with a pinch of salt.

on that point i can agree, we can sit and argue the wording all day, but everyone will have a different interpretation, and some will be right and some will be wrong.

me i will be staying at home as much as possible except for shopping once a week and exercise, much as i have been except for the odd holiday away for the last 9 months.

[grendel]

3 minutes ago, Meantime said:

and currently the Lake District National Park website updated on the 6th November has the following "guidance" for boating.

https://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/visiting/things-to-do/water/access-to-the-lakes

 

except we are not wanting to go boating in the lake district, we want to boat on the broads which are operating under their own guidance, which currently says no, what do the canal and river trust advise? (though we are not under their guidance either) everyone is interpreting things differently. who is right, who is wrong, there may be people up in the lake district arguing against boat use because the broads authority has said no.

[Meantime]

People often quote the intent, or spirit of the law, for me the intent of this lockdown is clear. To reduce the spread of the virus, but not be as restrictive, or as damaging to peoples mental health as the first. I base that upon having read the entire act and the guidance notes in full.

I would also back that up by pointing out that during the first lock down we had shielding for certain groups of people. In the latest government guidance I note the following for the clinically extremely vulnerable.

" You may wish to meet up with one other person from outside your household or support bubble, for example, to exercise in an outdoor public place, but we suggest that you always try to do so as safely as possible."

That is clearly far less restrictive than the first lockdown, and if carried out as safely as possible is hardly going to contribute to the spread of the virus.

I do note however that whilst you can this time meet with one other person outside not from your household, or support bubble, in most other respects groups of more than 2 people are banned, including any form of protest. They have clamped down in certain areas and rightly so to stop the farcical demonstrations we all witnessed earlier in the Summer.

[Gracie]

29 minutes ago, Lulu said:

Exactly, we should be staying at home if at all possible!!!!  
 

I freely admit my mental health is not in a good place right now. My dog died during first lockdown and finding it impossible to get another at the moment, especially now the rescue centres have shut again. My work is extremely stressful and I actually want to be furloughed to have a break  but that wont happen.  Going to the boat is my sanctuary. Even if our marina was open, I wouldnt go because the message is to stay at home.  
 

I will not interpret the guidance to suit what I want to do. 

Sorry to read about your dog Lulu and you feeling in a bad place too. Keep your chin up  

I will be staying home and only going out for shopping and taking the children for a walk, I don't get what's not to understand about staying home and only going out for essentials, exercise etc

On Wednesday my hairdresser very kindly squeezed me into her busy day for a hair cut. I felt safer in there than I do a supermarket, she was strict with everything from having to wait outside to be called in, filling a form out at the door asking have you been abroad, got symptoms etc to sanitizing every chair that was used between the wash basins and chairs you sit to have your hair done. As I sat waiting a lady was called in from outside for her appointment, she told the hairdresser that her husband had just tested positive for Covid, apart from a sore throat and a cough she felt well enough to have her hair done. Needless to say she was politely told she needed to be isolating and asked to leave

You can't educate stupid x

 

[Meantime]

7 minutes ago, Gracie said:

I will be staying home and only going out for shopping and taking the children for a walk, I don't get what's not to understand about staying home and only going out for essentials, exercise etc

On Wednesday my hairdresser very kindly squeezed me into her busy day for a hair cut.

Gracie, you do make me smile  the virus didn't call a truce until lockdown came in on the 5th November. Hairdresser's are one of the businesses that have been explicitly told to close because they provide a close contact service in an indoors environment, yet I saw on the news how some hairdressers were doing 12 and 14 hour shifts all over the weekend and up to closing on the 4th to fit in as many customers as possible. The same thing happened with pubs, bars and restaurants all over the country. 

[Gracie]

1 minute ago, Meantime said:

Gracie, you do make me smile  the virus didn't call a truce until lockdown came in on the 5th November. Hairdresser's are one of the businesses that have been explicitly told to close because they provide a close contact service in an indoors environment, yet I saw on the news how some hairdressers were doing 12 and 14 hour shifts all over the weekend and up to closing on the 4th to fit in as many customers as possible. The same thing happened with pubs, bars and restaurants all over the country. 

I know that

I know all about hairdressers and beauty salons having to close because of close contact. I also know how my hairdresser tried to fit in as many clients as possible so as not to let them down. My salon had screens up, everyone wore masks and shields and only so many customers in at once to obey the 2 metre rule. I never once felt unsafe unlike in a supermarket where I've had people reach across me, touching me to get something from a shelf

I am not stupid, I know the virus never called a truce, I also know that people who walk around knowingly having been in contact with the virus it's never going to go away and we will all have to learn to live with it in a new 'normal' way of life

 

[JennyMorgan]

This lockdown is just for four weeks, twenty eight days. Where's the problem in staying put for heavens sakes? Common sense dictates that minimalising travelling and contact with others will help constrain the virus so why not support this lockdown?

[Chelsea14Ian]

I know I keep going on ,but to get out of this mess we all need to bite the bullet and do our best to beat this virus.The first minister of Wales rightly said dont ask what can I do,but what should  I do.For me I have to isolate until.Wednesday .The Government have emailed me with further  restrictions regarding  my COPD and my lung condition. It is important to do our best to protect the NHS.I find it very worrying  that Liverpool  and Manchester are reducing treatment  to those with other conditions, due to treatment  for Covad.

Lulu hope things work out better for you soon.

[rightsaidfred]

While I respect the diligence of those who are prepared to trawl through legislation I cant help being reminded of the well known saying by Douglas Bader, as some one with a wide sporting interest amongst other things  I have always accepted the mantra of the spirit of the law is as important as the written word.

I don`t need a law to tell me not to steal I know its wrong, I don`t need a law to say I shouldn`t abuse others I know that`s wrong, likewise I don`t need laws to tell me how to behave appropriately in the current circumstances, I understand what affect my actions can have on others I also understand what my immediate needs are and where I need to go to maintain them at the moment  all of which can be achieved within a 2mile radius of my home therefore travelling anywhere else is an unnecessary journey, I accept that others may need to travel further setting a parameter is down to the individuals locality.

What I am saddened by is the more that I read and see here and elsewhere is the  decline in the caring society we used to be, its disappointing that the selfless actions of the many volunteers and caring neighbours etc. and those doing front line jobs is being undermined by those that either totally disregard what`s being asked of them or are looking for ways to circumvent anything that interferes with their own little world.

As for winterising boats some who foresaw the current situation already have but I see no impending weather conditions that suggest it has to be done before the current lockdown ends.

Fred 

[marshman]

So when is it going to end? Do we know that?

[Chelsea14Ian]

31 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:

While I respect the diligence of those who are prepared to trawl through legislation I cant help being reminded of the well known saying by Douglas Bader, as some one with a wide sporting interest amongst other things  I have always accepted the mantra of the spirit of the law is as important as the written word.

I don`t need a law to tell me not to steal I know its wrong, I don`t need a law to say I shouldn`t abuse others I know that`s wrong, likewise I don`t need laws to tell me how to behave appropriately in the current circumstances, I understand what affect my actions can have on others I also understand what my immediate needs are and where I need to go to maintain them at the moment  all of which can be achieved within a 2mile radius of my home therefore travelling anywhere else is an unnecessary journey, I accept that others may need to travel further setting a parameter is down to the individuals locality.

What I am saddened by is the more that I read and see here and elsewhere is the  decline in the caring society we used to be, its disappointing that the selfless actions of the many volunteers and caring neighbours etc. and those doing front line jobs is being undermined by those that either totally disregard what`s being asked of them or are looking for ways to circumvent anything that interferes with their own little world.

As for winterising boats some who foresaw the current situation already have but I see no impending weather conditions that suggest it has to be done before the current lockdown ends.

Fred 

Fred very true.I do feel strongly that many many thousands perhaps millions have gone that extra mile to help others.Its very heart warming  and sums up the best in society.They range form  the NHS,both medical and domestic staff.Volunteers helping others.People looking out for others.Care and key workers.Where this good work is hampered is by many,bending the rules to suit themselves. Those that think its acceptable to go out in large groups pretending in doing so its acceptable (the rules dont apply to me.)

I would love to go up to the boat, have a meal  and a pint.Thats get out of this mess as quickly  as possible by playing  our part.If not we may well be in the same situation this time next year.

[ExSurveyor]

1 hour ago, Meantime said:

(d) to visit a public outdoor place for the purposes of open air recreation

So that would exclude a private marina then.

 

16 minutes ago, marshman said:

So when is it going to end? Do we know that?

2nd December, the legislation is time limited.

[JennyMorgan]

18 minutes ago, marshman said:

So when is it going to end? Do we know that?

No.

[Paul]

1 minute ago, psychicsurveyor said:

2nd December, the legislation is time limited.

unless extended .......

[JennyMorgan]

1 minute ago, psychicsurveyor said:

2nd December, the legislation is time limited.

Regretfully the virus isn't.

[ExSurveyor]

It would need to go back to Parliament for new legislation.

Another lockdown will be necessary if people continue to ignore the advice and hunt for loop holes.

 

[marshman]

I wish Vaughan, that I could winterise mine in an hour!!! Of course I accept i am old fashioned , but as well as removing the soft furnishings I like to drain down the whole of the freshwater system which includes emptying the hot water cylinder, the pipes and the pipes to the bogs etc and blowing through any residue like in the shower mixer and elsewhere where it collects.

Oh well it takes all sorts I know and we don't really get those sorts of winters these days......... Obviously a bad habit of mine and a symptom of being old!!!

[Meantime]

6 minutes ago, psychicsurveyor said:

2 hours ago, Meantime said:

(d) to visit a public outdoor place for the purposes of open air recreation

So that would exclude a private marina then.

There are many examples of public outdoors spaces being privately owned and still open during lockdown. For example Whitlingham Country Park is owned and managed by the Whitlingham Charitable Trust and still open during this lock down. Kew gardens are still open, but the buildings are not. A lot of common land, town and village greens are not publicly owned, but are open to the public during lockdown.

A lot of parks are owned by the local council who allow public access to those outside spaces, and can restrict access during certain hours such as over night.