Crossing Breydon, Other Than At Slack Water

[750XL]

Hello all, hoping for a bit of advice if I may?

I understand this may have been discussed before but a quick google didn't bring much up, every bit of info I find online says that the passage across Breydon must be made at slack water.

We're due back on the Broads for 11 nights in October (after another forum member kindly pointed out a suitable boat for us). 'Prince of Light' from Herbert Woods this time round, air draft of 6ft 5" I believe.

Looking at the tide times for those dates, for the most part slack water passage times fall either before or after sunset which obviously won't be possible for us on a hire craft.

Is it possible to take the boat through Yarmouth/Breydon at anything other than slack water? Being 6ft 5" I believe it'll fit under the bridges even at high water, but I'm unsure as to whether the currents etc will be too strong? We've hired on the Broads a few times before, so aren't complete novices to it all and I'd consider myself (fairly) competent.

Thank you in advance

 

[oldgregg]

If going North to South you can be there at low water or even a smidge earlier if need be, but obviously it's October and if the weather has been awful then there could be quite a lot of flow.

Going back North to South you don't ideally want to be earlier than slack otherwise you'll be punching the tide for a long time up to Acle.

Based on those dates I think I'd go South on Wednesday morning and come back on Saturday or Sunday afternoon (Saturday looks easier) somewhere between low water and slack. 

[tim]

I can’t speak for October as never been that late, we came through in June dead on LW due to the height of the boat bit of a struggle at first but carried on at 4 mph not at full throttle as don’t like doing that, probably cost me another fiver in fuel but hey, you do what you have to do, and a fiver ain’t a lot when spend what I do in the pubs! 😉

With that airdraft you’ll be fine but you’ll need a few more revs!

You could stop at Yarmouth?

Is the YS open in October?

[Chelsea14Ian]

My guess it may be,worth a phone call to Yarmouth  YS.They could advise on times and tips on crossing. 

[marshman]

My guess is the Yacht Station will stay open until half term - whenever that is. Your window down south is going to be limited merely by daylight hours alone and whilst neap tides do extend the window a bit, and one could reasonably expect current speeds to be reduced, Old Greggs timetable looks viable, on the face of it. However  your margins for error and very limited and with daylight closing in, on a wet and dismal day, sunset times are pretty irrelevant. 

I would not make any plans at all now - it is just impossible to tell as, that time of year, any crossing is weather dependant. You are well into the autumnal equinox and whilst the weather can be lovely, it can equally be horrific!!!

About the week before, ask again..........!!

[RS2021]

Herbert Woods website advise it is safe to cross 2-3 hours after and 1 hour before low water if headroom is not a issue.

Also don't forget when looking at those tables tide times are clock time (BST before clock change) and sunset/sunrise times are GMT. You have an hour less or more than you think depending whether you are looking at morning or evening. It confused me for a while.

[marshman]

Used those tables for years and well aware of the GMT issue - but if HW say you can do that, so be it!!! You will just be using more fuel and going slower punching the tide!!!!

[Meantime]

First the important bit, what I'm about to write is based upon my observations and experiences of crossing Breydon many times and at many different states of the tide. Absolutely non of it should be construed as advice and ultimately any helm making the crossing is the person responsible for the vessel and people on board whether in a hire or private boat.

There are many things to consider when crossing Breydon. 

A flood tide will always have to fight some form of ebb, or drainage off the land (recent rainfall and quantity will increase or decrease this, but it will always be there to some degree) and therefore will never be as strong as an ebb tide which consists of drainage of the land as well as the draining of the last flood tide. If I have to go against the current, I would much rather go against a flood tide, than an ebb tide. Furthermore consider that if you push a flood tide, once you get around the marker at the end of The Bure you will then have the push back inland again. If you go round early with an ebb as you turn the marker you are going to end up punching the tide and if you get an engine failure there's only one way your going to head, which is more than likely towards Haven bridge and the open sea.

The ebb coming across Breydon is actually draining two valleys The Yare and The Waveney. The ebb down the Bure is only draining the Bure valley. If I had to fight an ebb against my best instinct, I would rather fight an ebb on the Bure, than Breydon and the lower Yare, or the lower Waveney.

There are actually two periods of slack water. Slack low water and slack high water. If you can fit under the bridge at slack high water then again you will not fight the tides too much. Also consider that if high water is at 1pm at Yarmouth it is going to be increasingly later as you move up river, so it is possible to keep pace with the slack water as you move up river, or even ride the very last of the flood all the way up river.

Many people consider the Lower Waveney, Bure and Yare as boring because they only see it at low water and see endless reeds either side. If your in the vicinity at close on high water you have a much better view over the reeds and surrounding land.

In the past when low slack water times haven't suited my plans, or there is not enough daylight hours I have headed towards Yarmouth and aimed to arrive about an hour before high water. For me is is always about the journey rather than getting from A to B quickly, so I just allow longer for the journey, don't thrash the engine and sit back and enjoy the elevated view over the reeds. As you get towards high water you tend to find the current easing off. I always check the bridge gauges carefully and as long as there is enough clearance proceed safe in the knowledge that I'll have good steerage under the bridges and that once past the marker I'll have the last of the flood to carry me across Breydon and on my way. It has happened in the past that I've arrived at Yarmouth and found there is not enough clearance under the bridge, in which case as you are fighting the last of the flood it is easy to moor at the yacht station and re-evaluate your choices. Normally for me this means waiting until the tide starts to ebb and then proceeding under the bridges resigned to the fact that I'll have a steady plod against the tide until I reach my destination, but nothing beats slipping under the bridge against the last of the flood and getting out onto Breydon and seeing it full of water. It always seems three times the size when there is water all the way out to the edges.

When making the reverse journey from South to North on a high tide  I allow more clearance under the bridges on the lower Bure because as I fight the last of the flood across Breydon I know I'll get a push up the Bure once I turn the marker and need to be 100% sure I can clear the bridges as I won't have the tide against me if I need to back off.

[grendel]

I will agree with meantime, I did a late crossing and managed 5 mph into the incoming tide on breydon, headed north, then caught the end of the flood up the bure, this was about 1 1/2 - 2 hours before high tide.

[Bytheriver]

The real experts re Braydon are of course the staff at GY Yacht Station & you can ring for advice re the craft you are on much closer to the date of your visit as they will be able to advise on the conditions likely at the time.They are open till end of October 

[750XL]

Thanks everybody for the replies, varied opinions as always. 

Would the bog standard engine in a hire boat have the power to punch through a full flowing tide, for example through Yarmouth?

[tim]

I’m no expert by any means but looking the tables you’ve provided I’d go over at slack on the Wednesday and come back by Monday, low water if necessary you’d still have nearly 3 hours to get to Stracey Arms

We did low water in a high boat that wasn’t particularly powerful 80% throttle gave me 3mph soon rising to 4 then 5!

I did use a bit more fuel than ‘doing it right’ my concern was bridge height not water flow!

As has been said a lot will depend on the conditions at the time, but most boats can cope with the flow at this time

Best to check with the YS nearer the time

i hope I’ve read those tables right!  😉

[annv]

Hi 750XL Yes I go through Yarmouth when  suits me bridge clearance being right you will take longer and use more fuel but your are on holiday, if your concerned/ worried about a fivers worth of fuel!!!!. John

[tim]

Oh just add Acle Spice will deliver to Stracey, plus a cab to Acle won’t break the bank

I’d be tempted to clock the Stracey moorings and push on to Stokesby if no mooring double back!

Thats because I like the Ferry but I love drinking their beer more!  😉

[Meantime]

57 minutes ago, 750XL said:

Thanks everybody for the replies, varied opinions as always. 

Would the bog standard engine in a hire boat have the power to punch through a full flowing tide, for example through Yarmouth?

The simple answer is yes, however I would still caution against punching against an ebb tide.

A favourite trip of mine is to leave The Berney Arms or Burgh Castle moorings and just head out across Breydon Water, through Breydon bridge and then head back again. I'm purely doing it to be out on Breydon, with no intention of heading up the Bure and therefore will set off and do it no matter what the tide is doing and will not thrash the engine in doing so. On many an occasion I have set of with 1200rpm against the flood and by the time I reach Breydon bridge I'm doing no more than 2.5mph. It matters not I'm there for the journey, not to reach a certain point by a given time. It is not unusual to be doing 6 - 7 mph at the same  rpm on the return across Breydon.

Engine failures are rare but if you have one against a flood tide you are only going to get pushed back up river or back across Breydon. If you have one on a full ebb you are going to be carried fairly quickly down river. The worst place to have an engine failure would be between the Bure bridges and Breydon bridge on an ebb tide.

[Bytheriver]

There is a video around somewhere of a craft with not quite enough power fighting the ebb up to Stracy & if there are any of the predicted thunder storms there could just be increased flow - bit hit & miss who gets them at the moment.

[Smoggy]

There's not many that would have issues against the flow other than taking longer and more fuel, engine failures are very rare and proper marine engines should be able to lose all electrical power and keep going as long as they get air and fuel.

If really worried have the coastgaurd number in your phone and you won't get past the lifeboat station whatever goes wrong.

[BroadAmbition]

you won't get past the lifeboat station whatever goes wrong.

From the experiences I've seen over the years and also knowing how far down river from Haven Bridge the lifeboat station is - You won't get anywhere near it before aid come to hand.

I've personally captured / rescued a hire craft that appeared under Haven bridge on a full ebb tide with an RN six man Gemini equipped with only a 40hp outboard - That was a struggle / somewhat interesting before the lifeboat appeared

 

Re outflow and the strength of an ebb tide. 

I agree of course that Breydon (Not Braydon) does indeed empty both the Waveney and Yare with a tremendous volume of water flowing out to sea, however the speed and strength of the water over the ground is much less than the Bure on full ebb in the area where the Bure narrows from the yacht station to the yellow post, that area on full ebb is much faster / stronger than Breydon and the Yare around the area of the yellow post and Haven bridge due to it being much wider and deeper

Griff

[Smoggy]

It runs under haven pretty damn quick Griff, I've seen a 12" (ish, you know how blokes measure) level drop through the bridge before, luckily approaching against the tide on the way in so plenty of oomph kept it centred going under, much slower either side though.

Those bridge piers are pretty restrictive, also seen a standing wave under there.

With the bridge out of action so often  I usually end up going under near half tide when it's running hardest, half tide on the ebb makes good timing for wells early entry for me without faffing about with the anchor.

[Matt]

Went through 1 hour after slack this morning north to south.

Boat in front of us initially went to turn before the yellow post but assume they then saw the big sign so turned back. But by that point we’re too close to said yellow post giving it a rather big thump causing damage to rear starboard side.

They then turned left and were heading for sea……several honks of the horn later and a bit of gesticulating got them back on track but even then watching the tide carry them towards the bridge at Breydon as they turned convinced me to aim for closer to slack water on the return journey!

[RumPunch]

[BroadAmbition]

 

 

Griff

[TeamElla]

Something to consider (based on personal experience):-

The last place that you would want to be unfortunate enough get something wrapped around your prop is on the final stretch of the lower Bure. In our case it stopped the engine dead and rendered us unable to restore propulsion for many hours (and it happened between "Marina Keys" and Great Yarmouth Yacht Station - near dusk!)

By the time I had brought us alongside with several swings of the mudweight it was dark and the initial slack water had just started to flood. To this day I don't know what we had run over as our rope cutter had dealt with it by morning. It had literally "gone away in the night."

 

[BroadAmbition]

To this day I don't know what we had run over as our rope cutter had dealt with it by morning. It had literally "gone away in the night."

Lucky, proper lucky - Well done

Griff

 

[TeamElla]

I still paid the chap who I had arranged to come out and rescue us, since he was already on his way when we finally caught up with him very early next morning (on the other side of Breydon).

Anyway, we've known him so long that we regard him as a personal friend so we also cooked him breakfast