Bottle Gas Prices

[andyg]

It goes to show just how fragile lots of our supply chains actually are and just how deep this pandemic and brexit has affected our life's.Today at work we were 56 hgv drivers short out of a total of a 184 rostered on duty. Just another day of routes being rolled into the next day. We have now started to cancel store ambient goods orders because the reality is we just can't catch up. My wife went to order her new car at the weekend. Five month lead time from the factory, a shortage of micro chips is the reason being given by the dealership. It just seems to be affecting all aspects of daily life. 

[annv]

Hi Andy The chips are from China i have had awnings for front of my bungalow( couldn't get British we dont make any more had to have German) should have been fitted early August brackets (British) fitted still waiting control boxes there's no chips waiting to come from China, not just us, we are to reliant on china for to many things,  my be we will learn from this and wake up and make more here even if bit drearier we can then control more, NHS has now sourced PT items here instead of abroad Gr! . John

[Mouldy]

7 hours ago, andyg said:

It goes to show just how fragile lots of our supply chains actually are and just how deep this pandemic and brexit has affected our life's . . . . . . . . . . . 

I think Brexit has impacted us more than anyone ever imagined and will continue to long after the effects of the pandemic have eased.  I was listening to the radio one day last week and the cost of bringing a container in from Europe has increased almost five fold, from £3000 to £14000.  There is now a 700 page importation document to be completed for every load that comes through the docks, including lorries coming in from mainland Europe.  I wonder how many extra staff have been taken on to deal with the additional paperwork at the borders.

Finally, whilst trying to chase the cooker for our boat, which is actually manufactured in the UK, but was fitted with an ignition unit sourced from overseas, I was talking to the manager of the chandlers from when it was ordered and he said that if he places an order from Europe for say 3k worth of stock, it now attracts import duties and other cost of £400 - £500.

All of these additional costs will ultimately be passed onto the consumer.  Sadly, with the loss of our manufacturing base, I don’t think we’ll ever see a time when we make things over here in quantity again, we’d still be reliant on importing the raw materials from other countries.

[TheQ]

Cost of containers and shipping has gone up all round the world, the cost of shipping containers from China to the UK has quadrupled in the last year. So it's not just Brexit.

The company I work for brings in stuff from Europe and sends stuff to Europe all the time (and the rest of the world). Once they got the hang of the new forms, there wasn't a problem. Just type in the relevent details in the boxes on the computer, the printer spews out the forms , attach to the items box. They've not had to increase staff or anything.

 

Much of the problem has been just in time manufacturing, one hiccup in the supply chain and there's a problem. Hiccups all round the world in the form of covid and there's a BIG problem.

[Cal]

It is all too easy to blame Brexit for things but the truth is that prices for pretty much everything are rapidly rising worldwide as economies reopen. This is nothing to do with Brexit it is global shortages caused by manufacturing closing down due to Covid. 

[Mouldy]

7 minutes ago, Cal said:

It is all too easy to blame Brexit for things but the truth is that prices for pretty much everything are rapidly rising worldwide as economies reopen. This is nothing to do with Brexit it is global shortages caused by manufacturing closing down due to Covid. 

But Brexit will be responsible for an increase in prices at the shops due to additional taxation and costs.  That is already evident, especially if you’ve tried to buy from a European supplier and received a bill for duties payable before the product is delivered.

[Vaughan]

1 hour ago, Mouldy said:

especially if you’ve tried to buy from a European supplier and received a bill for duties payable before the product is delivered.

Or vice versa, if you live in France!

[andyg]

In my industry brexit has had a huge impact, its been a bit of a perfect storm in reality. But yes more then one factor has contributed to our current supply chain issues. We forget sometimes we are an island, and over many decades our own manufacturing base has been closed down in favour of cheaper imported goods and profit. I guess you could say we've made our bed so now we've gotta lie in it. I've worked in a just in time logistics business, sadly with the congested motorway network here in the UK it can be a very stressful job at times, with clients demanding huge penalties for missing deadlines. 

[DAVIDH]

It's undeniable that a large proportion of the 100,000 shortage of lorry drivers, is down to those people who returned to their homes in Europe following Brexit, not returning. Transport companies are having to pay substantially more to attract drivers, and this will need to be passed on to the end user. Instore prices will rise to cover it. 

[Vaughan]

1 hour ago, DAVIDH said:

It's undeniable that a large proportion of the 100,000 shortage of lorry drivers, is down to those people who returned to their homes in Europe following Brexit, not returning. Transport companies are having to pay substantially more to attract drivers, and this will need to be passed on to the end user. Instore prices will rise to cover it. 

I agree with you, but let's look back a bit.

Why were there so many (cheap, let's face it) Eastern European drivers before Brexit?  Because the industry, and the government, had made it less and less appealing for British candidates to bother doing the job, for more and more restrictions, more and more working hours and less and less money.

It's all part of the reason why we buy cheap goods from Taiwan, because there is no more British production, providing British employment.

Same thing applies to merchant shipping.  Even ships built in UK are registered in Panama or other "flags of convenience" as British restrictions and regulations, over the years, have made it un-economical to run a ship under British registry.  Even so, those "Panamanian" ships are mostly crewed by British officers.

All that is left of our once proud Merchant Navy is the P&O ferries that ply out of Dover and those of us on the Broads who wear the Red Ensign on our boats!

Sorry, but I don't blame Brexit for this creeping malaise that has been going on for decades.

[Guest]

Global trends are global trends, but anyone who thinks the economy isn't taking a massive hit from Brexit is making like an Ostrich!

[Cal]

3 hours ago, DAVIDH said:

It's undeniable that a large proportion of the 100,000 shortage of lorry drivers, is down to those people who returned to their homes in Europe following Brexit, not returning. Transport companies are having to pay substantially more to attract drivers, and this will need to be passed on to the end user. Instore prices will rise to cover it. 

And wages will have to rise to fill the job vacancies.

[DAVIDH]

1 hour ago, Vaughan said:

Sorry, but I don't blame Brexit for this creeping malaise that has been going on for decades.

Can't disagree with you there Vaughan, other than to wonder why these effects weren't foreseen by those experts in their field, who advocated that we leave the EU. It is as a result of this, that we are short of the drivers in particular.

I have a personal view that it was anticipated by those who pushed for it, but that it would be collateral damage, while those in the UK, particularly the unemployed, would retrain to take up those positions. This would have the effect of reducing the numbers claiming Universal Credit, whilst at the same time, attract more money to the Exchequer. This is apparent now, as even with the known shortages across many areas, the government refuses to do anything to open up the flow of EU workers into the UK. Of course, around half the numbers claiming Universal Credit are already working, so the pool to draw from and retrain, is that much smaller. The government is currently boasting about how (accidentally) they have laid the conditions for better pay in these jobs, but once again, this cost has to be passed on to the customer. I've just looked up that quote from Harold MacMillan, where he states  "You've never had it so good". I think the last few years reflect this in terms of prices. I guess that time has now come to an end (for the foreseeable future).

[grendel]

I suppose I must step in and remind people at this juncture against straying into the realms of politics in this discussion, as with a lot of political subjects its all too easy to disagree on the reasons behind the problem, but then things tend to degrade from that point, when people get too involved, as long as we can just agree its a problem and discuss options to alleviate or get round it then we will be fine, once we start discussing the politics behind it, then I am afraid the moderators will have to step in, and up until now we have been managing tolerably well to avoid this.

Thanks

[Paul]

1 hour ago, batrabill said:

Global trends are global trends, but anyone who thinks the economy isn't taking a massive hit from Brexit is making like an Ostrich!

that would be a valid argument if the UK economy was behind that of similar countries, but actually it is not which clearly demonstrates that the UK economy is not suffering dramatically because of Brexit. 

Of course it will have some impact, but we expected that, didn't we?

[Paul]

One of the issues for haulage companies since Brexit is that unscrupulous employers are finding it more difficult, if not impossible to engage continental drivers at rates well below the minimum wage by classing them as self employed and paying piece rates, no holiday or sick pay, no pension contributions. 

I spent two years working for a logistics company driving 3.5t vans and we had a steady string of eastern european Class 1 drivers come to us to drive vans, who had been earning as little as £3 an hour working as "self employed" drivers for big, well known haulage companies. 

[OldBerkshireBoy]

I hear that this new HGV driving test no longer includes reversing which talking to drivers and ex drivers is laughable.

Might now be a good time to start a business repairing cabs and trailers?

[annv]

Hi The covid problem has exasperated the problem of drivers with the DVLC cancelling driver tests to replace natural wastage plus the number that are self isolating means more shortage. My son tells me that they have a number of bus drivers leaving to take up HGV jobs for the extra money, John

[unclemike]

Just now, OldBerkshireBoy said:

I hear that this new HGV driving test no longer includes reversing

as a former yard shunter I often wondered if it ever did, many the night i've been thrown the keys to reverse a container truck into our shed, the most notable was a guy who had been driving artics 20 yrs, couldn't back into our loading bay, after numerous attempts he gave me the keys and in it went, (it was the same manoeuvre I did when being tested).

for the record  i learned on a volvo FL10  4 wheel unit, it was great.  could put it anywhere ,all our trailers were curtain siders

[CeePee1952]

9 minutes ago, OldBerkshireBoy said:

I hear that this new HGV driving test no longer includes reversing which talking to drivers and ex drivers is laughable.

Might now be a good time to start a business repairing cabs and trailers?

I believe that part of the new CPC Part 3 test will still require a S shaped reversing manoeuvre into a bay to be carried out (off road facility)?

[annv]

Mind you Mike the number of car drivers that cant reverse park is amazing also part of there test. John

[CeePee1952]

16 minutes ago, annv said:

Mind you Mike the number of car drivers that cant reverse park is amazing also part of there test. John

My wife will most probably kill me if she reads this  but ever since she has had a rear view camera (with the reversing aid technology) on her present and previous cars, she says she'll now be lost without it!!  Me - nowt wrong with using two door mirrors and an interior mirror 

Chris

P.S.  Oooops just realised I've contributed to straying from the original topic! Sorrreee 

[andyg]

I've been in the industry for over 35 years, a shortage of hgv drivers has  been an issue for decade's.Some of the contributing factor in our domestic market not mentioned here is the huge increase in online shopping IE amazon etc etc. The boom in convenience food shopping, IE one stop co op countless costa coffee shops etc and everyone else you can mention. All requiring hgv vech to move goods. My company are about to open a huge new RDC in Biggleswade, there are serious conversation going on about mothballing the facility. As I've said before it's far too simplistic to blame brexit or the pandemic, it's a storm that's been brewing for years. A perfect storm if you like. As an ex driver I'm glad wages will increase ( its long overdue) the EU enforced CPC scheme needs to be scrapped it's done nothing to prevent accidents improve driving standards. Nobody has ever learnt to driver a lorry sitting in a classroom,utter nonsense. The whole industry need a massive overhaul. Eddie stobbartt has a lot to answer for here in the UK for more reason then you'd imagine. 

[Andrewcook]

Hi I used to be a Van Driver for a departmental store delivering Furniture but mange to go to a road side regularly and meet HGV Drivers some of them told me they get out of living expenses being away from home but they Sleep in there Cabs as this helps to boost there pay packet at the End of the Week or month now the Lorry industry needs a shake up and invest on British LORRY drivers and more Money  as the whole business should have been done a long while ago instead of flapping around like Headless chickens.

[CambridgeCabby]

In the taxi trade , over ten years ago now the local council decided to essentially lower the standard required to gain the taxi licence , quoting the fact that satellite navigation had superseded the need for extensive knowledge , one of the factors they chose to ignore was that taxis can use routes not permissible for normal motorists through the use of bus gates and bus lanes , Cambridge station to Girton college at that time in my hackney using the taxi permitted routes cost approx £7 in traffic ,if you followed the satnav that cost increased to £16 , sufficient to say the council went ahead regardless.

Lowering of the standards required to drive a 50+ tonne lorry IMHO is not only wrong but downright dangerous, if the standards were not necessary then they would have not have been introduced in the first place !!