Water Rail Out And About.

[BroadAmbition]

Where did you rob that from then?

Griff

[JanetAnne]

From a business in Mrs G's neck of the woods.  One of the most helpful companies I have ever dealt with. Got me a proper receipt and everything 

[BroadAmbition]

Nice one. Well done 

Griff

[YnysMon]

8 hours ago, Smoggy said:

To put it into easy to understand terms,  it's the vital bit that connects the uppy downy sucky squeezy bangy blowy bit to the spinny roundy bit that makes the water movey choppy thing work.

It should be a tad less bendy and lacking the blue effects round the little hole.

In less technical terms it's buggered. 

Prize of the week for translation. 

[grendel]

I think the question that needs asking is how that oil got into the cylinder, as my initial tests after the overrun allowed me to spin the engine over at least for a couple of revolutions. This would seem to indicate leakage past the rings or past an injector or valve.

[BroadAmbition]

You wanna know how this happened?

It’s french 

Griff

[Smoggy]

7 minutes ago, BroadAmbition said:

You wanna know how this happened?

It’s french 

Griff

So we know the con rod surrendered but which bit collaborated?

[Vaughan]

6 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

You wanna know how this happened?

It’s french 

Excuse me, I thought we were talking of a BMC.  If it is a Nanni then I may be able to help.

You say it is the No 2 cylinder that "hydraulicked". On the early Nanni 4190 we found a problem of failure of the oil seal "O" rings on the rocker shaft, which was always (for some reason) on the No 2 valves. As this was directly opposite the pipe for the crankcase breather, it squirted hot oil into the intake manifold and so into the No 2 cylinder.   Normally it just made a lot of blue smoke but it could have caused the engine to seize.  Might be worth checking those oil seals on the rocker shaft.

Still doesn't explain why Grendel says the oil level in the sump was way too high . . . . 

[Meantime]

39 minutes ago, BroadAmbition said:

You wanna know how this happened?

It’s french 

Griff

If by that you mean it's a Nanni, then its actually Japanese based the same as Beta Marine engines. Although I thought Water Rail had a BMC?

[Andrewcook]

Hi Grendel I'm very sorry to know your Engine went into Intensive Care on the Drip but let's hope with the quick Operation on the New Parts and other Bits to get Water Rail good as New back where she belongs in the water with Grendel at the Helm once again

[BroadAmbition]

Yes it’s a nanni  (or was)

Griff

 

[grendel]

1 hour ago, Vaughan said:

On the early Nanni 4190 we found a problem of failure of the oil seal "O" rings on the rocker shaft,

i believe it is a 3.90 nanni so that is a possibility, I guess its possible that the overrun caused an over pressurisation and blew the seal.

[Meantime]

5 hours ago, JanetAnne said:

From a business in Mrs G's neck of the woods.  One of the most helpful companies I have ever dealt with. Got me a proper receipt and everything 

Would that be JEM Engines? Was only looking at their website the other day.

[Bikertov]

12 hours ago, Smoggy said:

To put it into easy to understand terms,  it's the vital bit that connects the uppy downy sucky squeezy bangy blowy bit to the spinny roundy bit that makes the water movey choppy thing work.

It should be a tad less bendy and lacking the blue effects round the little hole.

In less technical terms it's buggered. 

Excellent technical explanation. Couldn't have put it better myself !

[JanetAnne]

9 hours ago, Meantime said:

Would that be JEM Engines? Was only looking at their website the other day.

It is. Absolutely first class service, couldn't be more helpful, excellent stock levels and overnight delivery. 

Once you know which version of Kubota your Nanni is based on it gets very easy. 

As an aside, and because I have been somewhat outspoken before on this, it would appear that, with the correct information, the Nanni is not the throwaway engine some would like us to think it is. "You won't get anything for that mate, it's too old, best to buy a new engine" was the advice I received elsewhere last Friday! 

[JanetAnne]

11 hours ago, Vaughan said:

..On the early Nanni 4190 we found a problem of failure of the oil seal "O" rings on the rocker shaft, which was always (for some reason) on the No 2 valves. As this was directly opposite the pipe for the crankcase breather, it squirted hot oil into the intake manifold and so into the No 2 cylinder.   Normally it just made a lot of blue smoke but it could have caused the engine to seize.  Might be worth checking those oil seals on the rocker shaft...

Thanks for that. Most helpful. I shall pay extra attention in that area and report back.

[Smoggy]

Is there a little machineing/fatter o ring mod that could be done or has no one tried yet?

[Vaughan]

8 hours ago, Smoggy said:

s there a little machineing/fatter o ring mod that could be done or has no one tried yet?

Yes we took the problem to Peachments and that is how they solved it.

[Vaughan]

9 hours ago, JanetAnne said:

As an aside, and because I have been somewhat outspoken before on this, it would appear that, with the correct information, the Nanni is not the throwaway engine some would like us to think it is. "You won't get anything for that mate, it's too old, best to buy a new engine" was the advice I received elsewhere last Friday! 

In fact the Nanni can be re-built in a boatyard workshop and I have done so myself as an experiment.  The problem was that for a full rebuild of shells, rings and all the other bits, including a servicing of the common rail injector pump (which is part and parcel of the engine), it was more expensive in parts than simply getting an exchange unit from Nanni in France, which comes complete with starter, alternator and heat exchanger, for only about €2000 at the time.

That was without counting all the labour hours involved! How long does it take for a full re-build? I can't remember now - 50 hours at least, at £40 an hour at least?

Edited September 4, 2022 by Vaughan
line added

[Meantime]

10 hours ago, JanetAnne said:

It is. Absolutely first class service, couldn't be more helpful, excellent stock levels and overnight delivery. 

Once you know which version of Kubota your Nanni is based on it gets very easy. 

As an aside, and because I have been somewhat outspoken before on this, it would appear that, with the correct information, the Nanni is not the throwaway engine some would like us to think it is. "You won't get anything for that mate, it's too old, best to buy a new engine" was the advice I received elsewhere last Friday! 

Good to hear from someone who has used them. I have a sneaking suspicion that my water pump is not long for this world and was planning on changing it over the Winter as pm. They also seem to be a fair bit cheaper than the UK official distributor for other common parts including thermostat etc.

My Nanni is a 4190, which I'm 99.9% sure is the V1902. It has the later style water pump with 15 holes so hopefully a later version engine that doesn't suffer the problem described by Vaughan.

I see on their website they sell a number of reconditioned engines at what appears to be a reasonable price. They have over 40 years of dealing purely with Kubota engines and they have 2 dyno beds to run them in once reconditioned. It evens says that if they don't have your engine in stock as a recon, to call them in case they have one due to be reconditioned and they can move it forward in their schedule.

 

[grendel]

i was looking at the prices on their site and in general they seem a lot cheaper (around 1/5 the price) than the official nanni parts available, and since they are for the same base engines... add to that they list the applications for the engines (nanni of course being one of them) and looking at all those different applications, its no wonder spares are available.

if you find the nanni maintenance sheet for your engine , in the specifications they  list something akin to the kubota designation for the engine.

[Meantime]

Taking the thermostat as an example, Brundall based distributor £28.50, JEM Engines including gasket £12. However it is worth noting that the gasket supplied by JEM is not suitable for a Nanni installation. When marinised by Nanni the thermostat is removed from the thermostat housing and placed at the end of the heat exchanger which needs a rectangular shaped gasket. 

Still some good savings to be made though if you know what your looking for and take into account any changes when marinised.

[JanetAnne]

Nanni wanted £240 plus vat for one single con rod, JEM wanted £66!

[floydraser]

On 02/09/2022 at 20:50, JanetAnne said:

Erm...

Youtube: the answer to everything is right there......

 

[Vaughan]

2 hours ago, Meantime said:

It has the later style water pump with 15 holes so hopefully a later version engine that doesn't suffer the problem described by Vaughan.

Sorry, but I don't get that? We are talking about an oil leak from the rocker shaft.

The later version of raw water pump with 10 vanes on the impeller rather than 12, was developed by myself and Peachments to avoid the back pressure caused by the small bore of the exhaust water injection bend. It was not possible to drill out the bend much larger so we had to experiment with the flow rate of the water pump. Early Nannis suffered from serious overheating until we found this balance, between the flow, and the back pressure.