A Bargain?

[ScrumpyCheddar]

I think the boat yards need to realise that banging up the prices is not going to attract new and returning customers . All this fuel inclusive in the price is a con.. At least before you knew where you stood with that. It was always nice to have a little back on return.
Personally I think the Southern Broads now from hirers point of view is extremely limited now. What has basically stopped a lot of people from hiring from down south with loss of silverline. I would have thought at least one of the big yards on the North side would take an advantage of this and set up an operation on the southern rivers even with a small fleet of boats. 

[Roy]

I agree with scrumpychedder about a large north hire yard opening a smaller yard on the south I’m also surprised no north boat yard has not done this and offered a one way cruise from north to south etc in a week that way some hirers wouldn’t be going over the same ground. 

More infustructure is definitely needed as I’m afraid nowadays people look for more gone are the days a dinghy and a pair of binoculars would entertain children unfortunately most children want WiFi 24/7 and entertaining. 

I really think wroxham bridge should be disposed of ( i know it’s not ever going to happen) and replaced with a slightly higher bridge to open up the moorings that are the coltishall side of the bridge this would surely benefit wroxham if more people could moor private or hire also the public toilets there could have a shower block for boaters built there too bit like Loddon and provide more facilities for boaters.

[rightsaidfred]

11 hours ago, LondonRascal said:

Yes it was, and to be honest, it has been used to good effect - you'd never know the area was not a bona fide National Park, and for the sort of people that this would mean something to (and visit because of the connotations of what a National Park is) is been great. But for everyone else it is just a pretty area in Norfolk..

 

I have to disagree with that, I have spoken to many first timers over the years who thought they were coming to a NP only to go away totally disappointed as to them there was nothing remotely resembling a NP during a boating holiday on the Broads.

While the fishing and wildlife are a major part of the broads experience they are available country wide, the diversity in landscape, sights to see places to visit etc normally associated with a NP are widespread in Norfolk and Suffolk they are away from the Broads.

Personally my own interpretation of the use of the NP status for marketing by both the BA and hire yards has done far more harm than good,  I am also inclined to think the claim by the BA during the court case was purely a back door means to gain permission to enable it to follow an agenda.

Fred

[Vaughan]

Fred, do I "like" your post three times, or will one be sufficient?    

[rightsaidfred]

18 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

Fred, do I "like" your post three times, or will one be sufficient?    

Not sure what happened there but once will suffice lol

Fred

[Gracie]

If I want to go to the Cinema, I will go to the Cinema. If I want to go to a Festival, I will go to a Festival. If i want to hire a boat, I will go to the Broads. Why? Because it is a beautiful peaceful place to be, nothing quite beats it for me or my family

I showed a couple of these posts to my dad who has been holidaying on the Broads for more years I can remember both on land and water. Far from being an old person stuck in his ways he summed it up for me when he said and I quote...."All that needs to happen is for the BA to stop closing moorings and cater for the boater both private and hire, for people to realise it is a boating holiday and not clubbing in Ibiza"

Does anyone remember when you used to choose a boat, turn up at your chosen yard and know fully what to expect for the next week or two and love every minute, I do  x

[Vaughan]

2 hours ago, Roy said:

I agree with scrumpychedder about a large north hire yard opening a smaller yard on the south I’m also surprised no north boat yard has not done this and offered a one way cruise from north to south etc in a week that way some hirers wouldn’t be going over the same ground. 

The big Jenners operation in the late 60s was designed to do just this, as the Caister Group also owned Herbert Woods at the time.

In France, well over half of our bookings were one - way cruises between two bases on the same canal or river.  It is very easy to arrange as reservations are now all on computer (which they weren't then) and you simply have to notify the customer about 2 weeks before departure, as to which direction the cruise will actually take.  In other words, where the boat will be, when they arrive!

In the case of a cruise between Wroxham and Brundall, this would be a full week by boat, but only just over half an hour between the bases, by car!  To collect your car afterwards, you would have a very pleasant scenic railway journey via Norwich or alternately, the yard can arrange to deliver your car during the week, for a suitable fee.

I have friends in the hire business who have premises in both Wroxham and Brundall and I have often put this idea to them, with the benefit of having run many of these cruises myself.  For some reason, they have never taken me up on the idea.

A missed opportunity, I think.

[batrabill]

4 hours ago, rightsaidfred said:

I have to disagree with that, I have spoken to many first timers over the years who thought they were coming to a NP only to go away totally disappointed as to them there was nothing remotely resembling a NP during a boating holiday on the Broads.

While the fishing and wildlife are a major part of the broads experience they are available country wide, the diversity in landscape, sights to see places to visit etc normally associated with a NP are widespread in Norfolk and Suffolk they are away from the Broads.

Personally my own interpretation of the use of the NP status for marketing by both the BA and hire yards has done far more harm than good,  I am also inclined to think the claim by the BA during the court case was purely a back door means to gain permission to enable it to follow an agenda.

Fred

Yeah. The Broads are awful. Don't know why people come. Nightmare

[rightsaidfred]

18 minutes ago, batrabill said:

Yeah. The Broads are awful. Don't know why people come. Nightmare

No one said they are awful, they are beautiful and unique just not a NP.

Fred

[CambridgeCabby]

Please can I remind members , when a quote or posting is “borrowed” from another platform can we please seek the permissions of the original source/poster before so doing, thank you .

[Smoggy]

In fairness to batrabill the broads are pretty crap, especially the southern broads with its huge tides and currents and the sea monsters in breydon water, stay away is the best advice..... 

[Broads01]

A one way cruise would be brilliant. I confess I do enjoy the whole Great Yarmouth and Breydon crossing thing but I always enjoy it more outbound (whichever the direction) than the return by which time it can become a little tiresome sometimes.

I remember in the 1980s, in the days when Herbert Woods and Hearts at Thorpe were in the same ownership, they had "Delight" and "Knave of Hearts", both Broom 30-style but with curved windows. Briefly and I think for that class only, you were able to hire one-way from Potter Heigham-Thorpe or vice versa. On the Thames around the same time, Maidboats had a complete business model around hiring one way between Thames Ditton and Wallingford.

We can only dream though. For it to happen on the Broads now, it would take a hire operator to either operate both north and south or at least for a northern operator to have an arrangement with a southern one. Alas there are barely any south Broads operators left for that to ever happen.

[Captain]

Simon, 

You are correct about Woods and Hearts although I believe it may have been two or three similar classes including Tropical Heart and Ray of Light (Caribbean 39), without digging out the old brochures I am not sure whether there were any others although there were a few similar classes which could have been used as swaps. If my memory serves me correctly le boat did talk about one way cruises between Horning and Somerleyton and Connoisseur may have tried it for one season between Wroxham and Brundall. 

I think even Len Funnell thought about it as he intended to start up a Brundall yard at Brundall Bay marina, the ex Woods boats were renamed ready for the new yard however never operated from Brundall and stayed at Woods.

Neil 

[Smoggy]

Having just met a crew of HW hirers in the nelly at reedham that crossed breydon today and got to go back oop norf tomorrow I can see the appeal of a one way hire,  they only did it to tick the box.

I had to break the bad news of the early start required to best do the trip.

[Vaughan]

6 hours ago, Broads01 said:

We can only dream though. For it to happen on the Broads now, it would take a hire operator to either operate both north and south or at least for a northern operator to have an arrangement with a southern one. Alas there are barely any south Broads operators left for that to ever happen.

In fact it's nowhere near as difficult as it sounds.  As long as the yard (let's say in Wroxham) has some sort of facility in Brundall, such as a brokerage or a marina with a few moorings to spare, it can be treated as a relay base and only staffed on turnaround days - which would probably be Saturday only.  In winter, the boats return to the main base for maintenance.  Remember - it is only half an hour away in the yard van.

[Roy]

Do any northern boat yards own any southern yards/ marinas I can only think of Clive with cove in brundall and horning pc. I think silver line and Richardson’s should have done that rather than move all boats to Stalham. 

I think by what I’ve herd most of brundall is owned by James frazer now. 

 

[Vaughan]

2 minutes ago, Roy said:

Do any northern boat yards own any southern yards/ marinas

They wouldn't have to own the marina - just have a leasing arrangement for the use of moorings and facilities such as diesel, pumpout and water. The marina's own office can also be used for the reception of hirers.

A good mechanic and a couple of cleaners, in a van equipped with spares, changes of linen, etc., can happily turn round 4 boats on a relay base, including the trial runs.

[rightsaidfred]

22 minutes ago, Roy said:

Do any northern boat yards own any southern yards/ marinas I can only think of Clive with cove in brundall and horning pc. I think silver line and Richardson’s should have done that rather than move all boats to Stalham. 

I think by what I’ve herd most of brundall is owned by James frazer now. 

 

 Barnes have a marina in Brundall for sales and private moorings, LeBoat used to do one way cruises as weĺl, not sure how successful they were or if it was  part of the demise.

Fred

[MargeandParge]

Would Insurance and health and safety standards have to go up if a yard was used as a hire base ? Do you need first aiders etc ? Business rates thus increasing overall costs to that business. 

There must be a Reason why Horizon was moved from Acle Bridge. 

Kindest Regards Marge and Parge 

[Vaughan]

7 minutes ago, MargeandParge said:

There must be a Reason why Horizon was moved from Acle Bridge.

Possibly, but Horizon was not far enough away from Stalham to offer a decent one - way cruise.

 

8 minutes ago, MargeandParge said:

Would Insurance and health and safety standards have to go up if a yard was used as a hire base ? Do you need first aiders etc ? Business rates thus increasing overall costs to that business. 

I don't see why in particular, as the marina is already a boatyard with public access.

All these things are matters that be overcome in "doing the deal".  It is all just a matter of logistics.

[RS2021]

We've done a couple of one-way trips on the canals. The one time, the 'away' base was simply a BW wharf with a cleaner and a mechanic turning up as Vaughan describes. No facilities, no fuss. Unfortunately it lacked security and sometime later when the boat was not on hire for a week, it got torched. It didn't deter the company, however, and they still offer one way cruises now, but to a different 'away' base.

I can recommend one way cruises if the boat and route are right. I think this may be more the issue why so few are offered. For me booking, the boat we choose is the most important. A hire company can only offer a limited selection of boats and most fleets now consist of a large number of classes with few boats in each class so if one-way hire were offered the chance of it being the boat I wanted would be slim. I can see how it works better in a fleet like Le Boat where you have fewer classes with more boats in each class.

[Captain]

Hi,

Le Boat does this very thing on the Thames at Chertsey. With boats travelling between Benson and Chertsey. I used to remember it being very much a man/woman with a van , a mechanic who also did the trial run and a cleaner with all the linen and some spares. The boats were using leased pontoon moorings within a private marina and reception pointing to the pontoon where you needed to pick your boat up, you dropped your stuff at the pontoon parked in the marina car park and away you went.

Neil 

[Vaughan]

40 minutes ago, Captain said:

The boats were using leased pontoon moorings within a private marina and reception pointing to the pontoon where you needed to pick your boat up, you dropped your stuff at the pontoon parked in the marina car park and away you went.

 

Exactly. It is just a matter of logistics and I have never understood why they don't do it on the Broads.

In CBL, we only actually owned one of our bases, which was the head office in Castelnaudary.  All the rest had the quay and/or basin leased from the VNF (Voies Navigables de France) as well as the buildings, if they were not leased separately from the local town hall or vineyard owner.  My large base in St Gilles was an old vineyard building, which made excellent boat sheds.

The canal du Midi and Camargue had 3 main bases which ran one-ways between them but in most other areas there would be one main base and one - or two -relays, giving a one-way option in each region.  It also gives flexibility in a big company, as when popularity, politics or even climate, changes you can cancel the lease and move the boats by truck in winter to somewhere else.  So you can react very quickly to changes in customer demand.  This is how I came to open up a new cruising area at Chateau-Thierry, on the Marne, by turning a builder's merchant's store shed into a boatyard!  The builder's merchant happened to be the Maire of Chateau-Thierry, which did tend to help!

I see from their website that Le Boat appear to have closed pretty well all of the old relay bases so they must now offer mostly out-and-back cruises.  A pity, since one-ways used to be well over half of our business.  This might explain why well over half of their boats in Homps and Trebes have being lying in off hire every week (including today) for the last two years and more.

It's not only in Norfolk, where business needs to "buck up"!

 

[CambridgeCabby]

The trouble , as I see it , with one way cruising breaks is two fold , firstly the appropriate crossing Breydon water times are not always feasible and secondly the boat yard would be splitting their fleet / staff / and logistics between two bases would would inevitably add to costs .

If it were financially advantageous I’m in no doubt they would already exist .

[ScrumpyCheddar]

Personally the Southern broads needs more or another Hire yard.. Then it gives the option to stay south or explore both north and south. Realistically you only have 2 hire yards on the south that have boats what can fit under the low bridges.. Broom have a couple of Boleros and pacific have a few boats what can.. But that is very limited boats on the southern side.. I would have thought this would be an ideal opportunity for the other yards to step in now and launch a southern yard.