Another 10%

[JawsOrca]

Lunchtime reading..

https://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0026/494342/Proposed-navigation-charges-for-2024-25-in-the-navigation-area-and-adjacent-waters.pdf

 

[chrisdobson45]

Grim reading, are the BA’s finances so fragile?

[Islander]

Not as fragile as mine on a pension. We are in the process of down sizing I.e. one of our boats has to go. Dr P will still get his money as the new owners will pay. 
A 10% increase will give us a tolls bill of about £1200. Add to that moorings, insurance etc etc something has to go.

Option B. I think is the most likely but I can’t see inflation falling that much for the following years with the current international situation. 
Maybe I’ll win the lottery. N.B. Buy a ticket.

Colin 

[BroadAmbition]

Another way above inflation toll rise?

Blessed authorities mooring fees increasing - again above inflation?

More moorings becoming chargeable?

Will we be really that surprised?

Griff

[dnks34]

This just makes me glad we sold our boat in 2018.  I miss being able to use the rivers but I do not  miss the enormous cost of even modest boat ownership one bit.   I do occasionally find myself looking on the boat brokerage websites but i refuse to contribute to the Dr P’s empire.

[Bluebell]

Well, that’s something to look forward to 🤬

It’s harsh on top of all the previous years increases, but I don’t expect much sympathy. After all we must all be minted…😎

[kpnut]

I don’t agree with his statement that owners pay less than 10% of their boating costs in the toll.
It says the info came from a boat owners survey. Would be nice to see the data. 

I agree that option 2 is the most likely scenario once the committee discusses. 

[Smoggy]

The committee will as they're told as they always do, discussion won't come in to it, spineless bunch.....

[marshman]

Griff - not sure where you are living but the early part of this year, inflation around here was, I think over 10%?

[BroadAmbition]

MM - of course you know where I’m living - or - Where have you been?

The inflation rate locally has nowt to do wi it since most of the Broads boat owners visit from all over the land. Hence the national inflation rate should be used as a guide for not a target to be smashed through - again

Griff

[rightsaidfred]

34 minutes ago, marshman said:

Griff - not sure where you are living but the early part of this year, inflation around here was, I think over 10%?

MM we know where you live and 10% was in the past, the national rate is currently 6.3% and the projected rated for 2014 is 2.5%, so someone is ripping someone else off, I guess as the projected tolls increase dosn`t affect you anymore its easy to dismiss the effect it will have on a lot of people many of whom will now have to consider whether ownership is still viable.

Fred

[ExSurveyor]

Given that the rate of inflation is generally expected to fall to around 5% by march 2024, it is wrong to base next year's budget figures on  last years figures.

In the real world, replacement of equipment is delayed if a company can't afford it, shiny new toys are on a wish list, the existing equipment has to last longer and have a bit more maintenance than expected, unless you have a captive cash cow to squeeze dry.

[marshman]

The last posts just show how difficult it is to predict inflation in advance - its a bit of a guessing game not helped by the B of E not having a clue! You might as well pluck almost any figure less than 10% out of the air.

For what its worth my view is it will remain higher than expected for longer as it usually does here in the UK - or am I no longer either able to have a view or perhaps even post, now I no longer have a boat?

What is good to see hidden away is that they are giving up more space at Yare House so less rent to pay - anecdotally I know someone at NCC who only has to be in the office one day a year!!! Down further south there is an increasing tendency around more people being expected to be at desks more often, than more recently.

[Mouldy]

2 hours ago, kpnut said:

I don’t agree with his statement that owners pay less than 10% of their boating costs in the toll.
It says the info came from a boat owners survey. Would be nice to see the data.

Hmmm!  A survey suggested . . . . . Is there an owner on here who has either completed a survey or even been asked a question regarding how much they spend on maintaining their boat annually and what percentage of that amount do the tolls represent?

I know I haven’t and unless I have additional works carried out, my toll charge far exceeds 10% of my annual costs.

[rightsaidfred]

42 minutes ago, marshman said:

The last posts just show how difficult it is to predict inflation in advance - its a bit of a guessing game not helped by the B of E not having a clue! You might as well pluck almost any figure less than 10% out of the air.

For what its worth my view is it will remain higher than expected for longer as it usually does here in the UK - or am I no longer either able to have a view or perhaps even post, now I no longer have a boat?

What is good to see hidden away is that they are giving up more space at Yare House so less rent to pay - anecdotally I know someone at NCC who only has to be in the office one day a year!!! Down further south there is an increasing tendency around more people being expected to be at desks more often, than more recently.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but sometimes circumstances cloud our outlook, for me personally at my stage of life cost is less relevant than the enjoyment it gives me, others have to look more closely at the value they get from what disposable income they have.

Fred

[grendel]

I seem to recall there was a survey done by the BA a year or so back, so maybe thats what they are referring to

 

[Roy]

It seems to me that I’ve missed the boat when it comes to owning one pardon the pun. 
 

if costs like this keep going up year on year owning a boat on the broads will be just a dream especially if I have scraped the money together once I take it out I’m going to have to pay for my mooring else where ! 

id like to know what percent pay rise the head honcho is having this year  ? 
 

[Vaughan]

Well, I have finally sat down and waded through the report, and one or two things stick out for me :

What has the cost of maintaining Mutford Lock (and its increase) got to do with a Broads river toll?

Why does an MAIB report on a fatality in Gt Yarmouth have to result in a large increase in rangers and patrolling, on the Broads themselves?  What is it that they think they are trying to protect us from?  And conversely, why do they now think it might be "safe" to reduce the coverage again?

Legal fees have overspent by £16,251 due to the cost of negotiating the lease of Reedham Quay.  So what are the full costs of this negotiation so far?  Given that they haven't even managed to conclude the deal yet?  Sounds as though the mooring charges at Reedham are going to have to be very expensive, just to cover the costs of getting permission to charge them!  Doesn't sound to me as though they are looking at a profit, there.

Like Mouldy, I don't know who they surveyed to find that tolls were only 10% of costs for a boat, but it wasn't me.  My river toll this year amounts to 21.2% of my fixed costs, including a figure for routine maintenance but not including fuel.  At this rate next year, the toll will be 23% of costs if the rest stays the same.  That is if the cost of the mooring doesn't go up - again!

The toll for me next year would therefore be looking at nearly £800.  And then they also want me to "wad it out up front" every time I want to stop on their blasted moorings, that my river toll is supposed to pay for.

 

 

[kpnut]

14 hours ago, Mouldy said:

I know I haven’t and unless I have additional works carried out, my toll charge far exceeds 10% of my annual costs.

 

2 hours ago, Vaughan said:

Like Mouldy, I don't know who they surveyed to find that tolls were only 10% of costs for a boat, but it wasn't me.  My river toll this year amounts to 21.2% of my fixed costs, including a figure for routine maintenance but not including fuel.  At this rate next year, the toll will be 23% of costs if the rest stays the same.  That is if the cost of the mooring doesn't go up - again!

Using a misrepresented figure like that is presumably to show that the toll is such a small part of our boat costs that an increase won’t make that much difference to us. I hope it gets challenged. I might do so myself as I read somewhere else about the body to write to. 

[Paladin]

As far as I can ascertain, the last survey that included private boat owners was conducted during August and September 2014, with the results published in January 2015. I suggest any data obtained then is well out-of-date.

I have attached a copy of the results, the reference to the tolls being only 10% of overall costs is on page 19.

Fewer than 10% of registered private owners reponded to the survey.

The numbers on page 7 are interesting, with half the PBO respondents owning boats less than 25ft long, and 72% having a boat less than 34ft long.  The system for calculating the level of tolls was radically changed in 2016, resulting in smaller boats paying less and larger boats paying substantially more. Thus the answer to what proportion the tolls make to the overall costs is likely to be very different now.

The tolls increase for the 2015 season was 1.7%. Yes 1.7%. Given the swingeing increases that have been imposed since then, I fail to see how John Packman can continue to use a figure that is so demonstrably inaccurate.

Stakeholder-Surveys-Analysis-Appendix-1.pdf

[kpnut]

If that is the case, then it’s surely a case of overt misleading of the committee tasked with making the decision. 
I was wondering if it was about 10% or less once upon a time. If so I, comparing that with the current %, it should make committee members question the hefty change in the situation over a number of years. 

[JawsOrca]

Our tolls certainly aren't 10%, at £440 next year it will a good 20-25% really,  I certainly remember the first year we had Orca on the broads it was something like £230, so it's almost doubled and that was only 2 BSC's ago. 

What I really don't understand is who much of the BA is funded by the tolls? £4mill a year on salaries feels like most of it.. Isn't the BA's costs split between tools, defra (and whatever the planning department side does?). Is there a breakdown of these expenses. 

I wish it was easy to sell the boat and be done with the broads at this rate, it's really not worth it anymore and the BA is an organisation I really don't want to have to deal with.

[Vaughan]

On 27/10/2023 at 18:37, dnks34 said:

This just makes me glad we sold our boat in 2018.

 

On 27/10/2023 at 21:17, marshman said:

or am I no longer either able to have a view or perhaps even post, now I no longer have a boat?

 

8 hours ago, JawsOrca said:

I wish it was easy to sell the boat and be done with the broads at this rate, it's really not worth it anymore and the BA is an organisation I really don't want to have to deal with.

I think perhaps it is time I owned up and admitted that I have already decided to get out, while the going is good.  Susie and I sold our boat at the end of June.

I have already posted here on the forum that I have no faith in the future of the Broads at this rate and if nothing is done about the attitude of the BA (and the RSPB for that matter) then it is only going to get worse.

There is a very old saying in the Navy, that goes right back to Nelson's days :

Isn't it funny how the rats always know when to desert a sinking ship?

[Vaughan]

By the way, this 10% increase would have meant, for me, a rise of more than £160 over two years.

21 hours ago, kpnut said:

to show that the toll is such a small part of our boat costs that an increase won’t make that much difference to us.

Wasn't it a very well known member of the Authority itself, who announced last year that "it is only a round of drinks"?  He must drink with a lot of friends, in his yacht club.

[BroadAmbition]

A forecasted 10% rise for us will mean an extra £68:00 bringing us up to £748:00 so over the last two years = a £146:00 rise.

When we first tolled 'B.A' back in 2007 the toll was £275.

April of this year 2023 the toll was £680

That's a rise of 147%

I've just been on the Bank of England's website £10 in 2007 to April 2023 = £15:47  a rise of:- 59%

What other government backed council / authority / organisation can increase the cost to stakeholders over the same period by 88% above the national average rate of inflation?

An unelected unaccountable quango - That's what

Griff

 

Note:-  IF the Blessed Authority do increase the April 2024 rise to £748.  That will mean since 2007 our tolls will have risen by 172%