a case of mis information

[Chelsea14Ian]

We have just come home from the boat after two weeks on the river,which was a great time.During our time on the broads we spent time taking to holiday makers,asking many if they were going to the southern broads.many said they were concerned about crossing breydon water or confusion about bridge heights . Is this a one off? I don't think so i have heard this  many times before.As someone who moors at Brundall I welcome people from the northern broads , so to who ever please advise holiday markers how best to cross breydon and enjoy whats on offer on the southern broads.

 

Ian

[Chelsea14Ian]

I can't agree more it seems boats from the south cross perhaps from those of the north.One other thing is bridge heights .Specking to people on a boat fro wroxham a said are you going to the southern broads oh no we were told we can't get under Acle bridge and yet thet are only a few inchs taller then us (8.6).

 

However there is lots of info available i.e. broadcaster,maps etc all giving bridge heights etc.It just takes a little bit of planning

 

Ian

[MauriceMynah]

I'm starting to wonder about this perception that crossing Breydon Water is a tricky piece of work, and how the problems seem to have been blown up out of all proportion. I sometimes wonder just how it can be addressed.

 

The Southern waters do have issues that need to be born in mind, those being...

 

Strong currents.

Tidal rise and fall.

Tide direction.

 

... but there is a world of difference between "bearing in mind" and "blind terror".

 

I might still support the argument that a complete novice would be better off learning the very basics of boat handling on the northern waters, but not to the point of frightening them off venturing south after they've learned them.

 

I think the problem is, for the raw novice, that the boatyards on the northern waters just don't have the time at handover to go through these extra points.

 

One small point I would like to raise, while we are on the subject....

My sister was at the helm heading upstream from Breydon approaching the first of the Yarmouth bridges. She saw the arrows showing the channel and went through slightly left of centre. Nothing was coming so no problem but she had thought the arrows were indicating the channel SHE should be using and that on the other side of the bridge the arrows would be off set, indicating the down stream channel.

 

I wonder if other novices make that mistake!

[Guest]

....... There is only one consideration to be made when crossing Breydon and that is the bridge height at Yarmouth, everything else is incidental and the worse that could happen crossing at times other than low water is that you would use more fuel......

 

I'm afraid I think that's worse misinformation, to disregard tides completely.

 

All experienced navigators make good use of the tides whenever they can, it's just common sense.

 

They're quite predictable, and "best" conditions for any trip occur at least once every twelve hours.

 

It's not rocket science, requiring just a simple tide table and a watch.

 

Aside from that, there's a real hazard of novice boat users going through Yarmouth whilst being pushed along at 4mph, when they could so easily make the trip with no current at all.

[LadyPatricia]

I find a quick phone call to the guys at Yarmouth yacht station to check bridge clearance is all thats needed.

I must admit the thought of crossing on our first ever holiday was a little worrying but that was mainly down to what I had read on the internet. In reality there were no issues.

Now we are a little more experienced (by no means experts) we do check tide time and use the to our advantage on all our cruising on the southern rivers. It's amazing the fuel you can save over a week

Steve

[Wussername]

 

I think the problem is, for the raw novice, that the boatyards on the northern waters just don't have the time at handover to go through these extra points.

!

It is several years since I hired a motor cruiser from a boatyard.

It may be that trial runs have now changed, but I was aware that some trial run drivers had never experienced the Souther rivers, had never been on them!

In some instances they were very skilled at handling a boat in the small confines of the boat yard, some, not all, lacked the ability to teach that skill.

Old Wussername

[watershed]

We found Breydon Water to be an absolute doddle.Followed advice regarding tides/navigation etc,no problem. There were a couple of boats that apparently run aground,way outside the marker posts!

I think if approached with a bit of common sense and following advice freely given,it shouldn't cause a problem for anyone.

Mind you,most of my boating is done in the salty stuff,so I'm probably at a slight advantage!

[JawsOrca]

daddy...  i thought this post was going be a telling off about the       lol

 

On a neap tide (the opposite of spring tide) the bridge height maybe less but I suspect all broads boat would still get through. I think the empathise is put on bridge heights by the BA and yards because that where the most damage can be done to a boat (at high water the height is down to 6.9 to we wouldn't get through). 

 

Whilst the currents are stronger than up north we all know it's not deadly and as long as we practice "mooring against the current" it's easy.  

 

As with most things the south is far better than the north (..stay with us scotland..) 

[Maxwellian]

I love the Southern Broads and find as long as you take simple precautions to check which way the tide and wind (if any) are travelling you should be ok. We have only ever been close to a problem going through GY. That was the first time back in 84. The yard had not given us any traing at all about the bridge height or times to go through. The yards are very carefull to do so now and a few minutes reading the forums, boat handbook or broadcaster soon sort that out.

It is lovely down sarf. Take a little thought and enjoy. Well worth the trip.

[JennyMorgan]

It is a fact that things can go wrong when crossing Breydon but by and large such things relate to doing the wrong thing. For example we were sailing across Breydon, keeping to the marked channel, when we saw a group of boats, perhaps a school party, heading off between the posts. They were all waving and shouting at us to follow them, yet there were we were sailing without touching the bottom. One by one they inevitable ran aground, the rear boat of the group not responding to the first boat running aground, intelligent or what? Now, that was not Breydon's fault! I agree entirely with Strowager's comments on this one.

[Guest]

I think JennyMorgan and Strowager are spot on.

[ranworthbreeze]

Hello Ian,

 

Thank you for posting this topic, it has indicated that care and planning needs to be done with regards going through Great Yarmouth and across Breydon Water.

 

Boat users should not be put off by scare mongering.

 

I think it is correct that people new to boating should stay North or South rather than trying to rush and see both in a week.

 

Poster are correct that you need to do your homework before attempting to pass through Yarmouth.

 

Check the tide tables for slack water passage especially when going down river through Yarmouth.

 

Most if not all hire boats will go through Yarmouth at low water.

If the boat has a canopy take it down well before you pass under the bridges.

Watch out for current coming from the starboard side when going around the "Yellow Marker".

Keep inside the two rows of markers at all times.

 

I quite like going across Breydon Water when it is slightly choppy.

 

The main thing is to enjoy your time on the Broads and be safe at all times.

 

Regards

Alan

[littlesprite]

If navigating Ludham bridge, Potter bridge, Wroxham bridge they all require planning and use of the tides, why Breydon should be any different I don't know. There is definitely some fear factor that has been developed surrounding this stretch of water but you should consider any water as dangerous but manageable with planning, if you have never tried it then plan, talk, get advice and go for it. 

[BroadScot]

If you follow the guidelines that are on here,the internet, in brochures, in Boat Skippers manuals, goodness knows where else, crossing Braydon either way should not scare anyone. IF you use a very simple process.... COMMON SENSE.... Yes pass the Yellow Post as you go past the two bridges YES stay inside the Red and Green Posts on Braydon. The trouble is IMHO people DO NOT read the instructions freely available, or choose to listen to some cock n bull story of the evil dangers of crossing Braydon Water. 

 

I do agree if first timers, stick North or South as the case may be, then the next time you should have the confidence to tackle the crossing. 

 

The Broads are navigable to the whole area not bits of it, well maybe That bridge to many. 

 

Oh me, I crossed it on my second holiday on a old woodie Barnes Bridge. Tide tables? What tide tables.  Even had to leave the Locks Inn at dawn to get through Beccles Bridge. 

 

To all who are worried, don't be, apply common sense, listen to those who know, by all means phone Gt Yarmouth Yacht Station too if you feel it is required. Most importantly, enjoy ALL of the Norfolk Broads.

 

I hope all of that makes sense to some, if not all.

 

Iain

[Bound2Please]

I feel that these days far to much is made of crossing Breydon Water, My first crossing was in 1976 in an old wooden boat I hired from Oulton Broad called Anglian Sonet. A very enjoyable crossing it was well.

 

Just use common sense when crossing it...

[BroadScot]

Hi Charlie,

 

Welcome to the NBN from me

 

Iain.

[Guest]

..... when you have only 5 or 10 days to choose it is often not an option. I would guess the tide times combined with the advice to only cross at low water is the largest single reason that some people don't make the crossing......

 

It's funny how often that comes up on all of the Broads forums.

 

There's so many posts were newcomers say that low water slack is at an "inconvenient" time for their particular holiday dates.

 

They seem to take it as an unfair restriction on their planned itinerary.

 

It's a natural phenomenon, as old as the Sea itself, that Mariners respect and make good use of, rather than a hindrance.

 

God knows how they would cope with a harbour bar, or shoal waters.

[BroadScot]

 

 

God knows how they would cope with a harbour bar

Strowy.... I coped with our local Harbour Bar in Ayr for years  ... Hic!....

But appreciate excatly what you were saying on the way of water/sea.

 

Iain.

[Hockham Admiral]

It's funny how often that comes up on all of the Broads forums.

 

There's so many posts were newcomers say that low water slack is at an "inconvenient" time for their particular holiday dates.

 

They seem to take it as an unfair restriction on their planned itinerary.

 

It's a natural phenomenon, as old as the Sea itself, that Mariners respect and make good use of, rather than a hindrance.

 

God knows how they would cope with a harbour bar, or shoal waters.

 

I think that's entirely unfair, Strowager. "Newcomers" as you call them are just that and are bound by their perceived lack of knowledge and what the yards tell them.

 

Your final paragraph might show a pretty drastic lack of appreciation of just how daunting it all can be for "newcomers", if they didn't know you better.

 

In fact they wouldn't cope, as probably many "experienced" Broads helms wouldn't, either.

[Bound2Please]

 

 

"God knows how they would cope with a harbour bar, or shoal waters."

 

I for one respect the tides coming from the coast. I coped with them from a young age in the rivers/estuarys around Essex.

 

But on these forums some make newbies think its like crossing the Atlantic!....

 

Or is that a way of keeping hire boaters and newbies away from some stunning places?.

[Bound2Please]

Hi Charlie,

 

Welcome to the NBN from me

 

Iain.

 Thank you Iain

[JawsOrca]

"God knows how they would cope with a harbour bar, or shoal waters."

 

I for one respect the tides coming from the coast. I coped with them from a young age in the rivers/estuarys around Essex.

 

But on these forums some make newbies think its like crossing the Atlantic!....

 

Or is that a way of keeping hire boaters and newbies away from some stunning places?.

 

I suspect my dads intention was for the complete opposite...

 

Newbies.. for goodness sake.. just do it and come south.. you will not die.... 

[Mowjo]

Sorry I'm going to disagree here! it can be B****y daunting and dangerous even for experienced helms, even we can get it wrong, I've lost count of the times I've crossed Breydon in my thirty years. 99% of them have been no problem, but Breydon and the weather can be very unpredictable, the 1% that nearly got me was a mid evening crossing in perfect weather, I got about 400 metres past the bridge heading towards Oulton, out of no-where a fog came down from no-where and I couldn't see 20 feet in front of the boat, decision time! drop a mudweight or carry on, I took the chance and carried on because I had crossed dozens of times and had a rough idea of where I was heading, now my Judi doesn't swear much so when I heard her say Ooooh F**k I knew something was wrong, as I looked to my Port side about ten feet away I could just make out the side of a very, very large  Boat/Ship I presume from the Beet Factory, it just appeared from no-where, to say a change of underwear was needed is an understatement because if I had dropped the mudweight where I was going to or been ten feet to Port the chances are we could both easily be dead now, don't get me wrong! I havn't put this here to scare anyone, get it right and it's a fairly easy crossing, what I am saying is never underestimate the dangers of crossing Breydon that can happen due to unforeseen  circumstances, In fact never underestimate any part of the Broads it can bite you in the bum when you least expect it,,,

 

Frank,,,

[BuffaloBill]

 

 

If navigating Ludham bridge, Potter bridge, Wroxham bridge they all require planning and use of the tides, why Breydon should be any different I don't know.

 

Maybe because those bridges don't have a 4mph tide running through them.

If anyone asks for advice on here(or anywhere else), you give the best advice

that you can and that includes what can happen if things go wrong.

Peoples perception of danger is different for each individual, so you give the

advice so as to reassure them that it is relatively safe, so long as you respect

the strength of the tide if traversing outside of slack water times.

Following the advice given can make it a memorable experience for all the

right reasons and none of the wrong, and then they will be inclined to do it

the next time that they come and tell others about it.

You only have to see the amount of photo's of boats grounded on Breydon

and hitting those bridges that are posted each year to realise that people need

that advice. Just going gung-ho without any research is an incident in waiting.

IMHO of course. 

Edited to add that Iv'e been 'Broading' since 1965 on a boat and in a bungalow

at Potter before then, and over that time Iv'e seen most things that can go wrong 

when crossing Breydon and, like Strowager, Iv'e been caught out too. Once with

a coaster on my side of the river at Brundall when going round a corner(which

doesn't happen now) and once with whirlpools at the entrance to the Bure when

I tried to pass 2hrs early to allow me to get to Acle for the night.

[JennyMorgan]

Frank, fair point but that's not just a Breydon thing. I've had a sea-mist come in on Oulton Broad & I've been dependent on a compass, not something many hire boats have.