Early Engine start !

[BryanW]

I don't usually get involved in this sort of discussion but cannot resist.

 

We were out on Royall Satin last week and generally found everybody to be well behaved.  We ran the engine (for about 10 minutes) to start the heating early every evening and then, because the boat interior was only about 5℃, again fired up the heating in the morning when we got up at around 6:30 but without starting the engine, this boat had voltmeters on both the domestic and engine batteries so I could check the battery state.  This was actually the only week in about 26 years that we have ever used the heating in the morning.

 

To avoid running the engine in the morning we have showers in the evening so the water is always nice and hot, we only use the minimal amount of lighting and have never had a battery problem (mistake to say that, there is always a first time).

 

Now a little story:  Some years ago we were moored at Womack (staithe) and during the evening about every hour the boat next door started his engine for at least half an hour, we thought "he must go to bed in a minute" but no.  This continued until about 11pm, by which time we had been in bed for some time and I had had enough so I got up, dressed and knocked on his door, one of the 6 people eventually came to the door and when questioned said "we are trying to watch TV and the batteries keep dying", I should also point out that pretty much every light on the boat was also on.  After a few words he did shut his engine down and, I guess, went to bed.

 

Some of the problem with a certain yard is that their new boats are all electric so battery power (if not on an electric point) has to be used for cooking with the subsequent necessity to generate electricity from the engine, still you pay for diesel whereas you don't for gas (or am I being cynical) and it is easier on the BSS.  Which leads me on to say that I am not convinced by hybrid boats even if they are totally covered with solar panels, I cannot see that they are efficient and the generator is silent, it's still a diesel engine after all.

[JawsOrca]

All the boats I hired I never ran the engine unless moving off, although we've always done lots of motoring. So showers are done as and when there's hot water. If there's no hot water then there's no hot water I wouldn't dream of running the engine to get hot water?! (do people really do that?!) If the batteries run out then there's a problem there so call the yard and get them to come and look. The batteries should last overnight really. I've always found the heating fires up with no problems again without the need to run the engine.

 

On Orca the same is true we only have tiny batteries but so far they have been brilliant and lasted ages, even when ashore with the heating being used and the engine never run.  We do see a power drain when the heater is started but it still copes.

 

My parents for some reason do run their engine to get the heater going but because the former mechanic told them to (instead of fixing the problem) and they won't listen to me! When I use it I don't run the engine and it's fine! 

 

I noticed on one of the hire induction videos on the internet it tells people to start the engine in the morning to get water etc if the boat doesn't do much of a run so perhaps as others have said this is just a misunderstanding/holiday mode!, as others have mentioned I doubt people are knowingly being rude as people generally really aren't like that?

 

Perhaps there is a problem with too much electrical bits on boats these days but I can't comment as I've not been near one for ages (Geez I'm sounding old..!)

 

Personally for me, I've not noticed the running of engines as a problem, only a couple of times maybe but I don't moor near people really and if you do then perhaps this is, rightly or wrongly something to be expected.. 

 

 

aboard too Bryan (if I've not welcomed you before .. Nice post so please step in more often too

[Hockham Admiral]

Friday Girl is an all-electric boat and if we're not connected to shore-power we have to start our 1500cc genny-engine for a cuppa... but BB's fitted an underwater exhaust system to it and beyond a few feet you just can't hear it... Perhaps the way to go?

[LondonRascal]

Having hired with the certain hire yard who a lot of their boats feature electrical appliances – yes this is true that if you are not on shore power, one has to run the engine in order to do things like boil the kettle.

 

However when talking to people (engineers and the like) the reason is because when they trailed such a lot of the feedback was positive – a domestic kettle is a lot larger and faster to boil than the smaller on hob type affairs most boats have and a microwave with a proper oven and grill is better to many than just an oven.

 

Remember too some of their boats can have over a tonne of batteries installed  not just lead acid everyday sorts, they put frankly eye wateringly expensive Rolls AGM batteries in and some of their boats have twin or triple alternator installations putting out in excess of 200Amps to power things and charge the batteries. 

 

You can’t give people things like that and then not need to have engines being run thus causing possible annoyance to others.  It is all a compromise – as so often it is with a boat. 

 

It is now possible in high season to spend almost £3,000 just on accommodation for a boat for one week and I have to say I would be more on side with the hirer who wanted the luxury boat, was willing to pay for it and then got told off for running the engine to make some tea.

[ranworthbreeze]

 

I don't usually get involved in this sort of discussion but cannot resist.

 

We were out on Royall Satin last week and generally found everybody to be well behaved.  We ran the engine (for about 10 minutes) to start the heating early every evening and then, because the boat interior was only about 5℃, again fired up the heating in the morning when we got up at around 6:30 but without starting the engine, this boat had voltmeters on both the domestic and engine batteries so I could check the battery state.  This was actually the only week in about 26 years that we have ever used the heating in the morning.

 

To avoid running the engine in the morning we have showers in the evening so the water is always nice and hot, we only use the minimal amount of lighting and have never had a battery problem (mistake to say that, there is always a first time).

 

Now a little story:  Some years ago we were moored at Womack (staithe) and during the evening about every hour the boat next door started his engine for at least half an hour, we thought "he must go to bed in a minute" but no.  This continued until about 11pm, by which time we had been in bed for some time and I had had enough so I got up, dressed and knocked on his door, one of the 6 people eventually came to the door and when questioned said "we are trying to watch TV and the batteries keep dying", I should also point out that pretty much every light on the boat was also on.  After a few words he did shut his engine down and, I guess, went to bed.

 

Some of the problem with a certain yard is that their new boats are all electric so battery power (if not on an electric point) has to be used for cooking with the subsequent necessity to generate electricity from the engine, still you pay for diesel whereas you don't for gas (or am I being cynical) and it is easier on the BSS.  Which leads me on to say that I am not convinced by hybrid boats even if they are totally covered with solar panels, I cannot see that they are efficient and the generator is silent, it's still a diesel engine after all.

 

Hi Bryan,

It is good to see you posting again.

I think you have hit the nail on he head with the hire boats that no longer have gas for cooking or heating. As you say the diesel heating just adds to your fuel bill, and running the engine to compensate for tired or undercharged batteries.

Ideally you should travel a minimum of 5 hours to charge up the batteries. I can understand the reluctance of hire companies to provide shore power hook ups but that would be better for everyone concerned in my honest opinion.

Regards

Alan

[dnks34]

Robin in the past I hired a number of times from the same yard Belmore TC is available and each time had to call them out for dodgy batteries, each time one battery needed replacement! I could never decide if I was just unlucky or if it was a trend but I never experienced this same problem at any other yard we hired from! If a hire yard ensured that the batteries onboard were working properly before each hire commenced it could alleviate some need to have engines running on moorings, but wont stop some as there as some that must like the sound of it!

[650xs]

start it like yer stole it .................

 

if yer on yer haliday boot .its a  must do the brudds in three days ........!!!!!

 

park car upp at ole boot yard ohh leave brian in boot ...!!!!!!

 

drive dun river with mud anchor thanigeey hand of front ..!!!!!!

 

and start yer enginme upp cuzz yard told us tooo ..!!!!!

 

love it love ......

 

lokie lokie like ............

 

al in gest and to get a rise

no harm non taken ......

[andy]

When we hired a boat we was told to run the engine to give extra power to start the heater

[kfurbank]

Andy quote "When we hired a boat we was told to run the engine to give extra power to start the heater"

 

Which is boat yard speak for the batteries are knackered and we don't want to replace them yet.  It's true to say that the heater has a glow plug that draws extra current during the start up phase of the heater only. If it fails to start correctly the heater will just shut down anyway. HOWEVER with properly charged batteries they should start the heater on their own. Running the engine is only replacing the charge that should be in the battery in the first place.

 

Most boats have at least 1, more than likely 2 110ah batteries. The standard alternator on my Nanni engine is a 12V 60ah alternator. It can provide no where near as much power as my batteries IF they are properly maintained and charged.

[JennyMorgan]

Back in the 1950's and early sixties the height of cool was to hire a radio. Then along came the chance to be ultra cool, to be able to hire a television for one's Broads holiday. That's where the problems started!  Twelve volts had been fine until then but now people came back from the pub at closing time, extending their evening by turning on all their lights and watching the TV until the early hours. Hopefully they could fire up the engine from the depleted battery in the morning but then Fridays would be the big one! Many boats had their last night outside a pub near to their yard meaning that having drained the battery on their last night they possibly only had half an hours run in the morning to recharge the battery for the next hirer. To add to the problem the next hirer probably only ran the boat boat for an hour tops on their first day, before hammering the battery with all the lights and TV on. Sunday mornings saw scores of yard service vans careering around Norfolk lugging fresh batteries aboard. Yards took to using twenty four volt systems but the demands became greater with fridges and the like. Today we have the hybrid boats which might have solved the almost traditional battery problem, but in turn this has caused new problems, e.g total dependence on power being supplied by an engine. The hirers hire in all good faith, they pay their money but that shouldn't give them immunity from complaint. Running a static engine in close proximity to other boats is just plain anti-social. 

[Maxwellian]

My goodness I wish that I was perfect! Oh let's think about it I ..............

A cold morning is a great excuse to stay under the duvet. We always take our own pillows and extra bedding just in case. If we are planning an early start I warn my neighbours and will have tried to moor away from others. Get ready to leave and start engine just before you leave. Ensure engine running properly before you cast off.

I am with others on this. I think it is just ignorance, and lack of training.

[dnks34]

I think people leaving their mooring and waking me up before atleast 1030am is down right anti social behaviour to be honest.....i mean, why cant people just bring a set of oars with them and set off quietly

[JennyMorgan]

I think people leaving their mooring and waking me up before atleast 1030am is down right anti social behaviour to be honest.....i mean, why cant people just bring a set of oars with them and set off quietly

A.M. or P.M? Would a sail be an acceptable alternative to oars?

[dnks34]

Ofcourse!!

[ExUserGone]

A.M. or P.M? Would a sail be an acceptable alternative to oars?

As long as they don't flap loudly in the wind!

[JennyMorgan]

As long as they don't flap loudly in the wind!

Only the skipper does that!

[650xs]

flapping sails ,losse sail cover and ting ting ting ***** *****  from those line not tied up bliss ......ohh i love wafi.........................................

 

w a f i ..................explained ...................wind assited feckin idiot .................

 

i,m one are you ???????

 

if all yer got to complain about is the engine running while on yer boot or next to the water than it all bad i say .....

 

whish i had the time to to moan ...................and be on water ...!!!!!

 

happy boating ...........

 

ps if you sold yer boat to me then that would be no issues ..........

[Timbo]

I'm with Baitrunner on this contentious issue. If the sun is up, then I'm up and before long the engine will be on.  Its not a case of me being thoughtless, inconsiderate or rude. I have to care for a disabled person so there's no malice involved either. Its a 24/7 duty where I don't have the option of leaving Dad in his pit, there is no scope to take showers later in the day and showering whilst underway is out of the question unless I have an additional crew member with me to take the wheel while I sort out Dad. I will have already done my best to not disturb everyone but sometimes the medical and personal needs of Dad mean I have to moor with other craft.

 

Please feel free to knock on the side of the boat to complain, but unless you've come prepared to offer assistance, or at the very least brought me a cup of coffee, then I'm afraid disappointment awaits.  "The sight of someone in their pyjamas hurrying away from an irate Yorkshireman wearing rubber gloves and plastic pinney is a common one around Royal Tudor". 

 

It is not my intent to be offensive. We are all on holiday, its just that my holidays start exactly at the same time as any other day...just on board a boat...where I need to start the engine to get hot water.

 

For more information please read: Uncle Albert's Fireworks

[alexandlorna]

Well loads of different opinions and views on the subject

Probably most having a fair degree of validity

As I said at the start , its not a crime against humanity or likely to cause WW3 (unless ol' Vald Putins on the river!)

The one thing that has become apparent here is this forum is generally much more friendly and different opinions don't seem to degenerate into slanging matches- and all with no need for moderation !-amazing what happens when adults are treated as such !

Long may it be so ☺☺☺

[JennyMorgan]

Tim, you have both reason and justification for running your engine, most don't. There can be no general rule so lets let it remain a common courtesy, as has long been the way on the Broads. 

 

On Oulton Broad we have a long standing convention, we generally cut our grass on Thursdays whilst the speedboats are racing. Their engines drown out our lawnmowers! 

[BryanW]

Hi

 

Thanks to the two Alans for their welcome, I do tend to browse more than I write..

 

On a slightly different note, I seem to remember that in the late 80s or early nineties one of the small yards in Horning (maybe Colin Facy or Percivals) were hiring small electric aft cockpit cruisers, not sure if they had to go back to the yard every night to re-charge but I don't think they had any i/c engines and recall that they were banned from cruising below Thurne Mouth or Acle.  Anyway they didn't seem to last many seasons but were probably the precursor to the modern electric day boats which seem to work very well.

 

The only way that I can see large all electric cruisers being really viable is if the number of electric posts are increased considerably.  I do not really understand why two electric posts were installed at Dilham which the larger boats cannot reach and at Instead they only put a single post on the outer (more dangerous) mooring.

[MauriceMynah]

I wonder how many skippers of electric boats think running their motors would charge their batteries.

 

Tim, Don't worry, If I come over to complain, I'll be carrying three mugs of boat coffee.

 

Peter (JM) I would imagine the wash from the power boats help sink the grass cuttings too before the BA rangers realise you're chucking them in.

[Gracie]

Very nicely said Alex   but have to say the term  'Adults' is a bit of a push 

 

Grace 

[Mowjo]

People must love me then! as someone that often night cruises I've been know to leave or come into a mooring at 3/4am, though I do it as quitely as I can and try to drift the boat in where I can, my biggest gripe is when I do settle down for the evening, is the odd one or two that run the engine for two or three hours to heat the water up, or charge the batteries, I can understand the need when there's a boatload that want showers, but why can't they moor up earlier or do what I've trained my Grandkids and their friends to do! they take turns to shower while on the move, then by the time they moor up they still have a full tank of hot water for the night,  in general I don't think people are being inconsiderate, I just think they don't realise how annoying an engine next to you running is even after a short time,

 

Frank,,,

[GeoffandWendy]

Our boat Star Gem 6 from Richardson's had a 240 volt inverter fitted, but there was no shore cable provided, to hook up to shore power if we needed to. Not that we did need to, but I thought that one would be provided, so at least you had the choice.