Speeding

[JennyMorgan]

Cameras can be an intrusion of our privacy, agreed, but if we are out in public then what privacy do we have? If we behave in a questionable manner, and it's recorded, as is the modern way, we stand a chance that the world and it dog will see it, and probably comment. The answer is simple, behave in an acceptable manner. So what is acceptable? That's the point of discussion!

[Poppy]

Herby Woods Face Book page will not allow posts 'at this time'. I wonder why......

[Bonzo]

Hopefully boatyards will point out to their hirers in future that there are people on the Broads who are fed up with behaviour such as this and they do have cameras and they will publish the video for all to see including the Broads Beat and Broads Authority.

[dnks34]

I have to be totally honest and say I agree with you to a certain extent smellyloo but in the case of speeding or otherwise reckless behaviour I think video of the event ending up on youtube and forums such as this one are exactly what is required to highlight these incidents. In a naive way I hope they serve as a deterrant to others! Im not a fan of camera pointing on the whole but in certain circumstances its not a bad thing at all.

[Maxwellian]

Trial by Forum is wrong where the comments are supposition or tied up in a legal process. Often only one side of a story is know or implied. In this case there is proof that a potentially dangerous act was committed. The kind of behaviour and lack of consideration shown can have serious consequences to innocent people. I have no problem with this video being shown and hope that by bringing an irresponsible act committed in a public place to the attention of the general public it might just make the boatyards and BA take action to stop this.

Just my view.

[jeffbroadslover]

I hope I never meet whoever was at the wheel when i'm driving my car.!

 

It appears from the quick view that this person has no resect for anyone or anything.

 

 

Jeff

[dnks34]

At least on the roads people are held accountable for thier actions.

[Timbo]

Thanks for posting the video, I agree with Maurice Mynah this is just the kind of thing that does need bringing to the public's attention. The last thing any of us plans for on a Broads holiday is some burke putting your life and property at risk through their stupidity. As for camera intrusion it's, a good job that digital bridge cameras are so readily available these days. Next time someone is hell bent on causing destruction I won't be far behind with my own camera should I witness it. These idiots need barring from the water permanently at the very least. I'm still, with Doug's help, trying to put right the damage caused to Royal Tudor by a similar Herbert in a Woods boat while we were moored on the public moorings opposite the Swan Horning. As for camera intrusion I don't recognize such a thing. I'm floating on an old boat in a tourist area with two beagles and some old geezer in a sailor hat...there's bound to be the odd picture taken. As for spies and secret agents I don't think my doings are important enough for anyone to get all 006 3/4 's about it. 

[dnks34]

Ive read elsewhere that the boat in the video is back at the yard, lets all hope this is true!

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

"Maurice Mynah plans for bridge destruction behind bar at the Swan, Horning, Agent 006 3/4"

 

Now that`s out of the way,  I`ve always followed the belief "there`s always two sides to a story", and that may have been the case here, or not as the case may be.

 

The original post is about "speeding", but how do we know that he was actually speeding?. With strong tides at Gt Yarmouth, even at 5 mph going WITH the tide, any boat would look like it`s going too fast, and the perception of speed is always governed by distance, and seeing as this boat was only inches from Welauhs barge, it might appear to be speeding when in fact, it might not be. The dangerous bit to me is passing so close. Also, i might be wrong, but i`ve never been aware that there is any actual written law that boats have to overtake on the left hand side, but as i say, i might be wrong, and if i am, i willingly stand to be corrected?.

 

As for the person driving the boat, it`s quite possible it was his first time on the helm, and was not present during the trial run if they had one?. We`ve ALL done silly things in our time, and anybody who says they have`nt, has either lead a very sheltered life, or blatantly lying.

 

I would`nt dream of doing some of the things i did in my younger days, some of them sometimes on the broads, because i`ve learn`t from my mistakes and grown up. So is it not reasonable to track down the boat and have whoever responsible informed of what they`ve done, given a strong reprimand by the relevant authority, and told they can carry on, providing they behave themselves, and show due consideration to others, or are we going to carry on giving in to trial by media, be social or forum?.

 

I wonder how many of the previous posters have done something they`re ashamed of others knowing, "let he (or she) who is without sin cast the first stone" comes to mind.

 

The post i think gives the best advice is the one which says the boat should have a governer on it. We mostly hired from Maffett cruisers, and all there boats are governed toa tad over 6 mph, so it`s almost impossible to break the speed limits, unless you`re in populated areas, which is something i think ALL broads hire cruisers should be governed to.

[alexandlorna]

There is such a thing as common sense ( which is il named in the extreme) and it tells anyone that ,what is happening there was a really stupid idea !

Imagine any part of a person getting between those two boats ...........

[MauriceMynah]

As I said in my last post, there may be good reason, and if there is I'll be first in line with an apology...

 

However, Look at the bow wave! That boat appears to be going close to flat out. He is overtaking so the probability that he is speeding is therefore greater. Which side he has chosen to overtake is indicative of not understanding the rules of the river, but that's not what has annoyed people it is the speed he's going passed a moored vessel.

 

Now I know that Speedtriple will always try to find the good side of a person, but on this occasion I'm afraid the evidence is rather stacked against the skipper of that boat. There are speed limits on the rivers and indications on the rev counter.

[dnks34]

How do these governers work out of interest? With my experience of owning an ex hireboat with a Nanni diesel the engine speeds are set to an operating range when manufactured. I dont believe hire yards change this but I could well be wrong. Ive always understood it as a boat that isnt designed to plane has a hull speed by design, install a 50hp or a 150hp engine makes no difference to the speed?

[JawsOrca]

Hi Neil, I understand your logic, as we all know the current through yarmouth is quite great so it wouldn't take much even for an underpowered boat to hit 10kts through there. And I personally believe the "speed by engine rev's" on hireboats can make this an issue, it's visible on the southern rivers quite a bit, "even though the tides behind me, I'm on 2200 revs so I'm doing 6mph", I believe there should a be a note on there "Consider the current" as a newbie can get unstuck.

 

Although I do believe, given the sight of that bowwave that boat was going a bit over 6mph

 

We do need strowager to explain hull speed, he does it really well! But I guess this is a 40 footer so even with a small engine due to the hull length I suspect is displacement hull speed is probably about 8 - 10 kts which is fast enough for the broads.  I've not seen regulators on boats, I've seen where they limit the range of the actual throttle control though, I suspect the yards typically fit them out with smaller engines, although as above I guess as they get longer this isn't enough.. Personally I don't think they should limit them as they should be able to hit the current through yarmouth if needed, I've seen boats struggle to beat the tide through yarmouth before and it's a bit alarming certainly when you see them drifting backwards towards the bridge.. Obviously that does rely on the boat being helmed sensibly and if not then they shouldn't be helmed at all.  IMHO

[dnks34]

I was thinking along the same lines Jawsorca, reduce the power to much and it could make things dangerous. The tech specs for my engine say 2600rpm maximum load speed and there was one occasion at Great Yarmouth I actually had to use it......or Id have been going backwards! Like you say its not the power thats available at fault its the numpty with his hand on the throttle!

[Paul]

Firstly, I would register my disagreement with Smellyloo's opinion that these items are not suitable for the platform of a public forum, I think this is just the thing that should be highlighted as by doing so it may come to other peoples attention that such behaviour is not acceptable, people who might otherwise have thought that racing around the broads, or some other waterway on a boat at full throttle sounds like fun. Either they address their ambitions and navigate safely or go elsewhere, I don't mid which. I fully respect the issue of trial by forum though, although again in this case am going to suggest there is no defence and disagree with Maurice Mynah's statement about a valid reason too. Regardless of the situation on board it is not acceptable to put your safety and that of others around you at risk in response to an emergency. That is the first point of training given to ambulance drivers, fire engine drivers, air ambulance pilots, mountain rescue teams, in fact all emergency service personnel. Had this been some emergency dash to meet an air ambulance, a feasible situation, then the people on board the boat would have been told exactly that by the call centre operative. Had this been a genuine emergency the boat could still have made effective headway whilst overtaking correctly, with the falling boat on the starboard side which I'm sure is in the bylaws somewhere.

 

About the only emergency service I know that doesn't operate to that strict code is the Lifeboat Service but even they have a strict code of what is and is not acceptable in terms of risk and reward.

 

With regard to speed it is quite possible that they were not speeding. The tide at Great Yarmouth can reach a much as five miles per hour on the ebb, travelling against such a tide you could be making 10mph through the water but only 5mph over ground, and as we all know Broads speed limits are measured as speed over ground. There is however an offence of causing excessive wash, proven in the video, and an offence of careless or dangerous navigation. Passing so close to a moored boat at such a speed through the water and causing such wash would certainly fall into that category.

 

With regard to hull speed the hull speed is reached when the wavelength of the bow wave reaches the same length as the boats waterline length. At this point the boat effectively falls into the trough behind the wave. A boat with a waterline length of 40 feet has a hull speed of 9.75mph. The wavelength of the bow wave increases with speed, and the amount of power required to drive the boat forward increases in turn with the bow wave wavelength to a point where at the hull speed any amount of additional power will have no discernible effect on forward speed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NeilB]

There are several ways I've seen to govern the engine speed.

1. Adjusting the stops on the injection pump - not the best solution.

2. Bracket installed behind throttle control to restrict movement.

3. Move throttle lever so it physically hits the dashboard.  (Hope the hirers do not have any allen keys!)

 

There are one or two other methods but these seemed to be the most popular. 

We used 2 or 3 as they restricted power in forward gear but allowed a little more in reverse for braking.  It was also a quick fix if we needed a bit more power to cope with strong steam conditions on the Thames where I worked. 

[MauriceMynah]

Paul,

I cited the "dash to an air ambulance" as the only emergency I could think of at the time. I have however thought of another possibillity.

 

If the skipper was a fine and experienced fellow, but was suffering the issue of a runaway diesel engine, it could explain his perhaps being obliged by circumstances to overtake on the wrong side, forcing him to go too close to the moored vessel. His speed would be something he would have no control over, but he would have to be congratulated for his helmsmanship in that situation

 

Now, to be honest I think this to be an unlikely scenario. I think the man "guilty as charged" BUT, should there be a good reason, though not necessarily the example I've suggested, then, as I say I shall be profuse with my apologies.

 

( I shall not however be offering to "eat my hat" at the forum meet   )

[herbertwoods]

Just to give you all an update on this, as soon as we were made aware of this problem we contacted the Broads Authority who sent rangers out to the boat. The helmsman has been interviewed under caution and the case is currently still under investigation pending further interviews. The party concerned returned home yesterday.

 

We are as disappointed as the rest of you by this behaviour and if we have any indication that a party is going to be disruptive or troublesome when they arrive we will refuse to let them depart and will cancel their holiday.

 

That said once they have left the boat yard we are reliant on the public to let us know of any problems. In future can I ask that if anyone see’s Herbert Woods cruisers causing disruption or behaving in a dangerous manner please do let us know directly so that we can take action, our office number is 01692 670 711.  

 

Kind regards,

 

Amanda

[JennyMorgan]

Thank you, Amanda, a very right & proper response.

[Guest]

Just to give you all an update on this, as soon as we were made aware of this problem we contacted the Broads Authority who sent rangers out to the boat. The helmsman has been interviewed under caution and the case is currently still under investigation pending further interviews. The party concerned returned home yesterday.

 

We are as disappointed as the rest of you by this behaviour and if we have any indication that a party is going to be disruptive or troublesome when they arrive we will refuse to let them depart and will cancel their holiday.

 

That said once they have left the boat yard we are reliant on the public to let us know of any problems. In future can I ask that if anyone see’s Herbert Woods cruisers causing disruption or behaving in a dangerous manner please do let us know directly so that we can take action, our office number is 01692 670 711.  

 

Kind regards,

 

Amanda

 

This is exactly the response I would hope for from a responsible boatyard. Thank you.

[JawsOrca]

Thank you for the update Amanda. It's good to know you have taken such action.

 

[dnks34]

A very reassuring response many thanks Amanda!

[Paul]

Well posted Amanda. This just goes to show that the first and proper course of action in such cases is to report to boatyard / authorities. This proves that when you do, action is taken.

 

Of course, that needn't stop we forumites chewing the cud afterwards!

[andy]

Amanda thanks for the update good to know that you are a good responsible boatyard and dealt with them quickly