1800's law used against mobility scooter owner

[ranworthbreeze]

I thought I had better post this report for Iain's benefit even though he is almost tea total

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/law_from_1800s_used_to_charge_norfolk_grandfather_for_drink_driving_on_mobility_scooter_1_4364513

Regards

Alan

[Viking23]

I think you can be charged for being drunk in charge of a push bike, a lawn mower, a child in a push chair.

Or just simply being drunk lol....

Know your limit, or simply don't drink alcohol, or nominate a sober driver, get a lift, or pay for a Taxi, cheaper than loosing your licence. Also you will pay higher insurance if caught driving a motorised motor vehicle.

There are cases of drunk drivers kipping in the back of a motor vehicle, or camper vans, you only have to be in charge of said vehicle, which is only having the keys in your pocket, you don't need to have started the engine, or sit in the driving seat. 

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

The law is an ass as they say.                                                                                                            Taking your point about being drunk in charge even if you`re asleep in the back, going on that, even if you were at home, and you are over the limit, if you have your car keys in your pocket, you can be found drunk in charge?. I think the fact you will be able to start the vehical is the point, and you can still be in that position, be it sitting in the back seat, or sitting in the loung, you will still have to open the drivers door, and get in and start the ignition. You can do that whether in the back seat, or your back garden.                                                                      And i bet yet again, people wonder why i`m so synical about authority?.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Hockham Admiral
Contravenes Guidelines

[BroadScot]

2 hours ago, ranworthbreeze said:

I thought I had better post this report for Iain's benefit even though he is almost tea total

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/law_from_1800s_used_to_charge_norfolk_grandfather_for_drink_driving_on_mobility_scooter_1_4364513

Regards

Alan

Thanks for that Alan. With the legal limit only 50mgs up here, 0%beers are selling well, with the range expanding all the time. Looks like the Norfolk polis are in need of funds! However,  the law is the law, sometimes, when it suits them!

With the amount of water about just now, SCOOT is only seeing Sainsbury's and Alldi, even that has been curtailed.

So I must check to see if that law would stand up in a Scottish Court! I wasn't about in 1800!!!

Iain

[Timbo]

I'm quite pleased this herbert was pulled up for being 'drunk in charge'. Last year we had a situation where a local drunk who uses a mobility scooter to drive himself to the pub ran his scooter at full speed across the pelican crossing we were using with our granddaughter. Only my other half's quick thinking got the kiddie out of the way as the menace instead ran straight into me knocking me over. Interestingly I've found that the RAF benevolent fund not only provide scooters but they also remove them when they have been inappropriately used, especially when contacted by irate members of the public with sire knees.

 

[BroadScot]

Sounds like one of the 8mph scooters, Tim. My version can reach a steady 4mph till it succumbed to a steep hill and my weight! Then it's hope and pray I reach the summit in one piece

Iain

[ranworthbreeze]

1 minute ago, BroadScot said:

Sounds like one of the 8mph scooters, Tim. My version can reach a steady 4mph till it succumbed to a steep hill and my weight! Then it's hope and pray I reach the summit in one piece

Iain

Hi Iain,

Scoot sounds as if he is a "Rolls Canhardly" model

Regards

Alan

 

[BroadScot]

11 minutes ago, ranworthbreeze said:

Hi Iain,

Scoot sounds as if he is a "Rolls Canhardly" model

Regards

Alan

 

Trabant more like 

Iain

[JennyMorgan]

No doubt about it, these old codgers on their scooters can be a right menace, especially going downhill with a wind behind them! 

58 years old, amazing!

[JanetAnne]

6 hours ago, BroadScot said:

 I wasn't about in 1800!

Oh you do leave yourself open some days young Iain! 

 

[MauriceMynah]

Interesting! In the case as reported there is no mention of any incident nor any mention of erratic or dangerous behaviour. It sounds like the man was just stopped and breathalised as the police might do any other motorist whom they have reason to stop.

If the limit for mobility scooters is the same as that for driving a motor vehicle, then that should be well publisized at least to the owner of said scooter. Perhaps Iain will inform us if that is the case.

In Timbo's example there is obviously a case to answer but in the newspapers report, no such recklessness is referred to. If the law imposes that same limit it's going to be a bit hard on those who need such scooters, drink responsibily and want to go to the pub, given that someone failing the breathalizer is nof necessarily drunk.

I have for some years now worried about the law vs freedom and the where such lines should be drawn. It is a grey area and a minefield.

[wombat nee blownup]

I,ve a nice crisp £10.00 note to give to any person that can go round our local Asda and exit WITHOUT bruised shins and ankles. If you dare to look round to see who the idiot was, you get glared at as if to say "Why are you where I want to be? I have right of way as i'm an invalid!"  

[grendel]

locally we have one lady who drives a mobility scooter, while using her white stick with the ball on the end waving out front, woe betide if you get in the way.

as for the sleeping in the back, one trick I have heard of to avoid prosecution, is a lockbox for the key that has a breathalyser controlling the lock, if you are over the limit you cannot get to the key- therefore cannot be prosecuted - this is very useful in the traveller community, when they often park up next to the pub and of course then sleep in their van, they have been woken and breathalysed as they are seen to be an easy target, if they have the keys unavailable until they sober up - they cannot be prosecuted (for drunk in charge at least).

[Hockham Admiral]

I've solved the problem by only drinking in the Hockham Eagle!   

[MauriceMynah]

My house keys are on the same ring as my car keys

So, I drive to my local pub for one beer only. I end up having several, too many to drive with. I ask the landlord if I may leave my car there and collect it early the following morning. I start walking home, keys in my pocket. Have I broken the law? 

.............. OR.............

  I walk to the pub because I'm being good. I have 6 pints of Uncle Grunwolds olde flattener. I now stagger (though not to the extent of being disorderly) back to my home where my car is parked. Have I broken the law?

 

[Hockham Admiral]

1 minute ago, MauriceMynah said:

My house keys are on the same ring as my car keys

So, I drive to my local pub for one beer only. I end up having several, too many to drive with. I ask the landlord if I may leave my car there and collect it early the following morning. I start walking home, keys in my pocket. Have I broken the law? 

.............. OR.............

  I walk to the pub because I'm being good. I have 6 pints of Uncle Grunwolds olde flattener. I now stagger (though not to the extent of being disorderly) back to my home where my car is parked. Have I broken the law?

 

If you have your car keys in your pocket as you stagger towards your car..... then probably yes!

[MauriceMynah]

Agreed John Thus the law encourages me to drive to and from the pub as the penalties are the same either way.

[Poppy]

17 hours ago, SPEEDTRIPLE said:

18 hours ago, Viking23 said:

I think you can be charged for being drunk in charge of a push bike, a lawn mower, a child in a push chair.

Or just simply being drunk lol....

Know your limit, or simply don't drink alcohol, or nominate a sober driver, get a lift, or pay for a Taxi, cheaper than loosing your licence. Also you will pay higher insurance if caught driving a motorised motor vehicle.

There are cases of drunk drivers kipping in the back of a motor vehicle, or camper vans, you only have to be in charge of said vehicle, which is only having the keys in your pocket, you don't need to have started the engine, or sit in the driving seat. 

The law is an ass as they say.                                                                                                            Taking your point about being drunk in charge even if you`re asleep in the back, going on that, even if you were at home, and you are over the limit, if you have your car keys in your pocket, you can be found drunk in charge?. I think the fact you will be able to start the vehical is the point, and you can still be in that position, be it sitting in the back seat, or sitting in the loung, you will still have to open the drivers door, and get in and start the ignition. You can do that whether in the back seat, or your back garden.                                                                      And i bet yet again, people wonder why i`m so synical about authority?.

Indeed there have been Speedtriple.   Not only is the Law an ass, but it would appear that some coppers are too!

There was a case some years ago ( in the 80s I recall) when a car and caravan were parked up in a layby in the West Country, intending to move on to their booked camp site the following morning. The couple concerned had dinner, accompanied by wine and then retired to bed in the said caravan.

Some time later they were rudely awakened by a loud knock on their door, to find a police officer outside. "Have you been drinking? " he asked, to which the reply was yes. Driving documents were demanded, and it transpired from this that the wife didn't drive. The Husband was then required to 'blow into this 'ere device' and was then whipped off to the local station, the normal proceedures followed and he was then charged.

Because the car was still hooked up to the caravan he was convicted, although there was no intention to drive - he was found in his night attire.

The Caravan Club took up the case and he was given an absolute discharge on appeal.  Nothing is known about the future career prospects of the copper!

 

[webntweb]

In this case the Law is an ass.

The report doesn't say whether he was on the road or the pavement or both but here is somebody driving a vehicle which may be capable of up to 8 mph who being more than three times over the drink/drive limit is in law incapable of controlling his vehicle.

He could easily have hit a child, a senior citizen or disabled person; or maybe he could have incapacitated somebody with a young family struggling to pay a mortgage.

Yes i this case the Law is an ass as, particularly with his previous similar conviction, he should have been given a fine to reflect the true cost of police and court time, instead of us taxpayers, as usual, picking up the balance of the bill . . . £1,000 wouldn't be too much. It's a pity they can't ban him.

Roy

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

First of all, i wonder whether this really DOES come under drink driving laws, because you don`t need a lecense to drive one. You also don`t need an mot, or insurance, and there are no regulations regarding tyre condition or any mechanical things at all. Of course i might be wrong, but i`m sure i`m not, as the people i know that have them have told me so.  I would laugh my head off if they threatened to take away his license.  It`s a bit likr the copper a few years ago who pulled over a cyclist in London for jumping a red light. He actually asked to see the cyclists documents?.  When the cyclists asked what documents did he needed as a cyclist, the copper replied "i don`t know". That says it all really.

[BroadScot]

Hi Neil, 

Insurance is recommended approx £76.00 per year. MM when I get home I will try check out the legality of drinking and scooters. 

Iain

[Timbo]

I've just 'disposed' of Uncle Albert's scooter! I was told by the local authority that Uncle Albert had to have insurance for it, However as his scooter was over five years old (although unused for five years) it could not be insured. I won't be providing him with another one. It may infringe his rights MM but getting turfed out of bed when the daft old b****r has fallen out of a boozer infringes on mine...and on yours in the past... a little bit.

When Uncle Albert was first diagnosed with diabetes and went onto insulin he felt a little unwell on his drive home from work on the motorway. He pulled over onto the hard shoulder, had a Mars Bar and a lucozade and sat in the car until he started to feel better. The police pulled up behind him and asked what he was doing. When he explained, they charged him for being 'under the influence' while in charge of a motor vehicle. After giving him a ticket they then told him that he should have removed the keys from the ignition and thrown them across the verge.

[Viking23]

On a similar issue, say your partner doesn't drive, but they have the second set of car keys so they can pop to the car, to put some shopping in the boot. So can the Police prosecute for driving a car without a licence, or insurance? 

Also do you have to be on a public road for the offence to occur, or is a public car park on private land, or a private drive exempt?  I think this is the key point.

After all, a car if Sorn and kept on private land is exempt from prosecution for not having a road fund licence, MOT, or insurance.

[grendel]

that said, could the wife be prosecuted for sitting in the passenger seat of the car with the keys in the ignition so she can listen to the radio while she waits for you?

 

[BroadScot]

I can start my car with the keys in my pocket. Look no keys guv Just a start button!

Iain